Do you think its possible for men and women to just be friends without it developing into an emotional affair?

Absolutely! One of my very best friends is a guy. Course, he already has a boyfriend <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> so I dont think there is much of a chance!

Otherwise, No, No, No - Dru

1. Could you close your ENs from him ?

2. Could you avoid filling any of his ENs ?

3. Could you not share any private or specially secreet information ?

4. Could you be yourself w/o changing your habit/behavior even you know that is LB to him ?

Don't think so ...

Sooner or later one of you will change the contract ... It would be fine if you are single/un-married & window shopping around for R as matter of fact it is best to start that way.

Otherwise you are just playing with fire.

-rh-

<small>[ December 12, 2003, 02:20 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

I wouldn't even contemplate this as a possibility in the context of any situation with an affair history.

I am always suspicious of the "just friends" talk as the beginnings of trying to justify something that really shouldn't be.

Sorry...jmho. Nowadays, I am much much much more careful about how I interact with and respond to men in my life, especially at work. Certain precautions will never be relaxed. My flight instinct in the presence of any kind of chemistry has not yet been retested, but I'm confident that I can now augment this with new tools at my disposal.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by terminator:
<strong> I am always suspicious of the "just friends" talk as the beginnings of trying to justify something that really shouldn't be.

Sorry...jmho. Nowadays, I am much much much more careful about how I interact with and respond to men in my life, especially at work. Certain precautions will never be relaxed. My flight instinct in the presence of any kind of chemistry has not yet been retested, but I'm confident that I can now augment this with new tools at my disposal. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">LOL!. It is called "putting your guard up". The best MM repelant is NC and LB.

-rh-

NC?? LB?? excuse me? I don't understand what you are saying here.

There are men with whom I must interact in daily life, even in a friendly and pleasant manner. Thankfully, there is nobody in the office who is "on the make", or with whom there is a feeling of chemistry ("potential" MMs).

FYI, X-OM is long, long out of my life.

I think it is a gray area. In my situation, it depends on who the friend is. Is the friend single, same age, do they work together? These things together would make it difficult to be 'just friends', and could easily lead to a slippery slope to EA.

Overall, I think its wrong to have a close friend of the opposite sex when one is married. Too many temptations.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by terminator:
<strong> NC?? LB?? excuse me? I don't understand what you are saying here.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not directed at you, sorry if you feel that way.

In general, As we know that ENs build LU$, LBs takes LU$ ... we all have LB$ with people that we interact with. Pleasant, civil level of LU$ makes us ok around that person. Beyond that we are toying around with romatic love level of LU$. Thus the best way to avoid MM/MW is unpleasant (LBs) around him/her and avoid contact (NC).

-rh-

I honestly think it depends on the person and their commitment to their marriage. I am close friends with my X which may be different but none the less we are friends and it could never be anything more. We tried to be more and found out we made better friends than spouses. If you truly love and are committed to your spouse, I think the opposite sex can give you insite to your spouse if it is needed. I also think that if one isn't as committed to the other and has female/male friends that it could turn into more.

2 things stand out, just curious ....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I am close friends with my X which may be different but none the less we are friends and it could never be anything more.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">.
Are you M now or have SO ?, what do they think of your R with ex ?. Is ex has SO already ? what do you think their reactions ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>If you truly love and are committed to your spouse, I think the opposite sex can give you insite to your spouse if it is needed. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why not just ask him or learn to identify it ? You are openning the door of A when you ask someone else ... the danger is finding out that OP is doing a better job or she/he said ... the fantasy could start.

ENs is exclusively for SO. Both should learn to filling it 'till overflows.

-rh-

Yes I have been married for 12 years and my X and h are o.k. with each other. They have their moments but get along. My x is also M and I am friends with her as well. She is a wonderful step-mother to my oldest son and a wonderful person.
Yes that is true about the OP, I guess I should have explained that a little more. When I said that, what I was saying was you can ask for the insite from a mutual friend and still learn or ask your own spouse. Yes it can lead to fantasies but some therapist say that fantasy can also help M in cases as long as it does not go to far. I would think that most people who are truly committed would know when to say enough is enough and stop, however, if it becomes uncontrollable is when they need the help. I myself feel comfortable talking with my h about things because he is not only my H but my friend. I also talk to mutual male friends which has no meaning b/c I love and am committed to my H and know I would never feel comfortable doing anything with anyone else while married. I could never do that no matter what was put in front of me and I have had the offers put in front of me.

I always thought it was possible until my A. Yeah, we started out "just friends" alright. Sure there was a little attraction, but I wasn't about to be stupid and ruin a good marriage. That probably lasted a year before the full blown EA, and almost 2 years before PA. For me, there is no way that I would feel comfortable with a friendship with a guy. I totally agree that if you have a history of A's, you should avoid it.

The hard part about this for me is that ever since childhood, I've had an easier time relating to guys than women socially. I just can't get into all the "women crap". I have one best friend that's a gal - she lives all the way across the country. Lot of women sort of friends, but no guys anymore. Too dangerous for me!!! It's a bummer.

Felina

HH2,
I can tell you it is not possible to be friends and not become intimate.(Meaning of the word intimate) </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> 1 a : INTRINSIC, ESSENTIAL b : belonging to or characterizing one's deepest nature
2 : marked by very close association, contact, or familiarity
3 a : marked by a warm friendship developing through long association b : suggesting informal warmth or privacy
4 : of a very personal or private nature </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Therefore,one should keep their friendships limited to those of the same sex or their spouse or SO.

I am a betrayed spouse as the result of a "friendship" that became an A. Add the "friend" as a coworker and you have a ticking time bomb for infidelity!
The best information on this subject can be found on the web site of Shirley Glass.I found all of the answers that I was looking for through her site and books concerning my FWH's A and the reasons it happened. I found support and help here on MB but her site was a God send to me.

Shirley Glass.. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">NOT "Just Friends": Protect Your Relationship from Infidelity and Heal the Trauma of Betrayal reveals that, in this crisis, today's workplace is the foremost breeding ground for extramarital affairs. Good people in good marriages-men and women who say they're happily married-are unwittingly crossing the line between platonic friendship and romantic love. We are right to be wary when we hear our partners assert, "I'm telling you, we're just friends."

Dr. Glass's compelling clinical portraits and statistics argue for a radical redefinition of infidelity. In the new infidelity, one doesn't have to have sex to be unfaithful. In fact, secret emotional attachments outside a marriage can be just as great a betrayal as extramarital sex. When sex and emotional involvement combine, as they do increasingly in these new workplace affairs with professional colleagues, the threat to the marriage is more catastrophic-much more so than traditional affairs used to be. In the current crisis of infidelity, men are more likely to fall in love with their affair partners-in the past, they were more likely to have uncomplicated sexual liaisons. Today, women are also getting more sexually involved than they did in previous generations.

NOT "Just Friends" is the first book to shatter popular assumptions about infidelity, including: a happy marriage is insurance against infidelity; the betrayed partner must have ignored obvious clues; and the unfaithful partner was compensating for emotional or sexual deprivation in the marriage. Dr. Glass's research not only proves that these are unfounded myths, her surveys of 465 therapists demonstrate that these myths are being perpetuated by ill-advised marriage counselors who are also treating their clients with inappropriate techniques. For instance, many counselors erroneously advise couples to bury the past and avoid discussing the details of the affair after it's discovered-despite research evidence that indicates open discussions about the betrayal are essential to recovery.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can find valuable answers and info at www.shirleyglass.com. It changed the way I look at friendships with the opposite sex. kk

P/S I do agree with Drucilla's exception. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

<small>[ December 12, 2003, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: kings kid ]</small>

Posted by HeavyHeart2 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Do you think its possible for men and women to just be friends without it developing into an emotional affair? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am the WW trying to end my A right now. I would say NO! Men and women can't be friends - atleast not close, intimate friends.

After having my A, I realize that I can be friends with my male co-workers at work , but not beyond that. I don't go to lunch with them. I don't talk about personal things with them. Yet, I consider them "friends" in the "acquaintance" type of way.

The problem, I see, comes in when you start confiding to each other. SOmetimes it feels like you are confiding to another girl, but make no mistake, confiding in a man (or someone of the opposite sex) opens you to a lot of problems.

Posted by Akling1 </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I honestly think it depends on the person and their committment to their marriage.... If you truly love and are committed to your spouse, I think the opposite sex can give you insite to your spouse... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am not trying to be rude, but I think this is naive and dangerous thinking. I truly loved my H for 11 years before I had my A. I worshipped the ground he walked on. I would not go to bed without him. I didn't want to do anything without him. I LOVED HIM. But I had an A because that love was not returned to me by him (Affair was NOT his fault, only mine).

All I am trying to say is that "being truly in love" with your spouse has nothing to do with it.

Friendship with the other sex (my new rule): Co-workers can be friendly acquaintances, but I do not have lunch with them (unless there is a group luncheon). I do not go anywhere with them. I do not talk to them about my private life. I am never alone with them. I do not let them tell me about their lives or their problems. I DON'T CARE!!! I had to give a talk to a male co-worker just last week because anytime I had a day off he would look at my like a little boy and say "I Missed you". This happened several times. I finally told him, "I don't want you to say you miss me ever again. I don't care. When I am not at work I do not think about you or give you a second thought. I barely think about you when I am at work. If your wife heard you say you missed me, don't you think her feelings would be hurt. This is inappropriate!"

I think friendship of the opposite sex is only appropriate when you are single, or when your spouse is also friends with that person.

Yes it can lead to fantasies but some therapist say that fantasy can also help M in cases as long as it does not go to far.
What's "too far"?

I would think that most people who are truly committed would know when to say enough is enough and stop,
Yeah, one would think that, huh? Doesn't mean that is how it is though.
Unfortunately, it's not that easy. It's a matter of knowing how relationships work. Most people don't get taught anything about a relationship until they end up here.

however, if it becomes uncontrollable is when they need the help.
But when it becomes "uncontrollable" then it's uncontrollable. Why would they get help then? It's gone too far.

Jaref,
Friendship with the other sex (my new rule): Co-workers can be friendly acquaintances, but I do not have lunch with them (unless there is a group luncheon). I do not go anywhere with them. I do not talk to them about my private life. I am never alone with them. I do not let them tell me about their lives or their problems.
Excellent!

Everyone who's responded has been super insightful. My A ended almost exactly a year ago, and it was with an office co-worker. Someone else mentioned that they usually gravitated towards friendships with men, and I identify with that, although I do for the first time in my life have a very strong female support system. I'd been coming to the same conclusion that most of you have voiced, I guess I was just looking for some confirmation. I wonder does everyone feel the same way about people who've never been involved in an affair? Is it like the alcoholic vs the casual drinker?

Also, how does one deal with long time friendships, predating the marriage? I have a dear friend that I've known since I was 5 years old, he and his sister and I used to play together every day during the summer until I was 12. Now, 22 years later, we keep in touch. I never thought anything of it, but since my A, my husband has been uncomfortable with it. Still I've tried to back off on how often we communicate (it wasn't very often before, like once every 2 weeks to month) to ease my husband's nerves. Do you think I should stop talking to him? Or is there a way to continue the friendship without making my husband uncomfortable?

I have a dear friend who I met when he was my TEACHER!! He was married then, is married now (to the same, amazing woman)...and we have been good good friends. Heck, one of my sons is named after him!! I would never even DREAM of anything but a friendship with this man...the thought of anything else..well, has never even been a thought.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HeavyHeart2:
<strong>I never thought anything of it, but since my A, my husband has been uncomfortable with it. Still I've tried to back off on how often we communicate (it wasn't very often before, like once every 2 weeks to month) to ease my husband's nerves. Do you think I should stop talking to him? Or is there a way to continue the friendship without making my husband uncomfortable? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Stop it and let go. What if your H has a female friend which make you uncomforable and you has express yourself well. What does it do to your LU$ ? ENs are exclusively your H.

You still want to push it ? .... ok, then 3 ways call if you talk to OP ... go w/ your H everywhere you go w/ OP ... tell your H every single thing. The fact that it made your H uncomfortable it is an LB already w/ your independent behavior.

-rh-

<small>[ December 12, 2003, 09:15 PM: Message edited by: redhat ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by HeavyHeart2:
<strong> Do you think its possible for men and women to just be friends without it developing into an emotional affair? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess it depends on what you consider the hallmarks of an emotional affair. I have close friendships with several men, in which we each talk about personal details in our lives. And I share those conversations with my husband, and sometimes my children if it pertains to them. There is no secrecy involved. And if my H ever became uncomfortable, I'd end the friendships.

I can't vouch for them in terms of whether they've ever been attracted to me as more than a close friend, but I can certainly vouch for my own integrity. I understand those of you who lost your way with your friends and moved into infidelity. In your case, you probably should not be friends with opposite sex folks.

I have several alcoholic friends; they are better off not drinking at all, and prefer not to go to bars. I am not an alcoholic; I'm comfortable going to bars and having a drink without the fear that I am becoming an alcoholic. My friendships are pretty much the same way.

I do not believe that my spouse can meet every need I have to the extent I would like it met. He's never going to have gone to the same college I did, or share the same past before we met - and he'll never be able to talk about those things interactively. I need to meet that need with my friends.

As a rhetorical question, if I'm bisexual, then by y'alls reasoning I guess I shouldn't have any close friends at all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Of course, in my world, being bisexual is no excuse to betray vows either.

K

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by KS41:
<strong> As a rhetorical question, if I'm bisexual, then by y'alls reasoning I guess I shouldn't have any close friends at all <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hmmm... maybe it just means you can be friends with anyone you want? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />