After just a few days under 23 months since D-day, that is!

Yesterday when I got home, my W gave me a great big hug and told me that she really, really loves me (unlike the Snoopy car2n I've 2uoted on here before! - look it up <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ). It was one of those hugs that could melt icebergs. If she had done that in 1912, Jack would still be alive today, and Titanic would still be ferrying passengers across the pond.

I had 2 go do something for her, and I said something like "I think I'll go down 2 the fridge and get me a barley soda. Want one?" And she said she would like one. Then she said that she'd make me a deal she'd been thinking about during the day. She started by telling me that she had gotten a reply from RM about her happy b-day message, which included a question about their field of research. He answered the question, apparently. She didn't say much more about what he said, like about the b-day greeting. She did say that she saved it and would show it 2 me if I want, but she doesn't think that it's appropriate for people 2 read other people's messages, referring 2 her question from the weekend about when I snooped in the past.

Sidebar: On Sunday, the day after she told me she'd sent him the message, and we'd had the convo about the snooping, I was sort of annoyed and feeling frustrated and lost. Instead of my usual 3 or so beers during the day while working on the house, I think I drank 9. That night, she told me that it scares her when I drink that much. I replied that I drank that much because I'm still scared about our fu2re. The convo pretty much ended then. End sidebar:

So, she brought that up again, and said that she hadn't responded 2 his reply, and would be willing 2 go NC if I would not drink that much anymore. She said that I didn't have 2 answer right away, that I could think about it for a while. So I'm still "thinking about it", though I'm jumping up and down cautiously on the inside. Jumping up and down because she does realize that I need NC 2 move forward and she can do it. Cautious because I know she still thinks it's "s2pid", and she still seems 2 avoid any MB-like methods, coaching, counseling, or book-reading. She is reading parts of PM, though, which is one of my top 3 favorite R-related books. She also hasn't said anything about whether she read the email that Still Seeking sent me on Monday. Her old laptop screen is cracked and it's hard 2 see around the "tree branches", so I can understand, but I do wonder if she's afraid 2 know more about what I'm thinking than I tell her or she infers.

I do see major signs of progress in her actions these days, though. So I'm not going 2 get 2 concerned. ...oh, and giving up drinking 2 much is not a big deal for a 50-yr old, believe me. I don't sleep well after I do that, even if it's hours after the last beer before I go 2 bed. So, I'm more than willing 2 make that deal! I just hope she's as sincere as I think she is. In any case, I'd be a fool 2 let this go by.

I think if you were 2 ask me what the most obvious sign of progress is, from my W, I'd say that it's the "little things" she says and does that make me realize that she's finally thinking about what she could have lost, but didn't, because I've learned what I've learned. I think that the reminder of talking 2 him, even though email only, like the cliche "being set back 2 square 1" jerked her emotionally back somewhat 2 that relationship, and hurt ours at the same time. I don't think she felt this before, because she had been so detached from me for so many years. Now that she really is trying 2 work on our marriage, she is more aware of what contact does 2 HER, not just 2 me (though my drinking on Sunday may have helped her empathize with me more than previously - not that I'm advocating that as a catalyst for progress!).

We talked a little bit last night about responsibility. She's worried for a long time that I still blame RM for our problems, and so I explained that, sure, at first I probably did, but most of the past 2ple of years I've realized, when I've been thinking clearly, that is, that he's responsible for his share of his marriage breaking up due 2 his poor choices. My W and I are responsible for ours.

I have no idea whether NC will "stick" long term. I've never "been here" before. But I sure as heck won't drop this ball now that I've got it. I'm not ready 2 make any demands for things like NC letters, though, but I might suggest it at some point (or suggest that she block his email address or something).

Thoughts?

-ol' 2long

Yippee - Rat Meat is about to go. Hope he crawls back into his hole.

2long,
I'd like to know if you "let go", see what Keepmvn4wrd suggests, is that the way to go?
Laurie

laurie:

"Letting go" is indispensible in recovering from many things, particularly infidelity.

*let go of the need 2 control outcomes

*let go of the assumptions about what the WS is or isn't doing - this helped me a great deal. It also must have "showed" on the outside, because my W has started 2 realize that I could live without our M if I had 2. Don't want 2, but I know how, now.

*let go of the drama - we all get sucked in2 drama. Take a look on the boards - our sitches are FULL of drama. The best way 2 stop it is 2 STOP it ourselves. That's a big "letting go."

The point of letting go isn't "tossing the WS 2 the curb" or anything like that. It's a refusal 2 play the games. It's not being selfish, either. It's recognizing that the only change we have control over is of ourselves. Focus your energies there. When you do, you'll be happier, and your S will notice, even2ally (and even if they don't, someone else might!). If it saves the M, then great. But whether it does or not, it will save YOU, and that's the most important thing.

best,
-ol' 2long

2long- Lets take any forward movement and celebrate it! I am happy for you and W. Hopefully your W will see the positive steps of NC and will someday soon agree to send a NC letter to RM.

PS: I don't think the Titanic would still be sailing today.

2long,

Average A dead within 2.5 years. She is not the exceptions. My ex has a rough time too, their A reaching that mark plus I help a little > <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> .

It is closer yet you still have a long way 2 go before real recovery could start ... when RM is totally gone.

I am praying 4 you -rh-

2long,
Thank you, I truly believe this, but always looking for more encouragement on letting go. I
can do it, I have to do it.
Laurie

I don't think your W will like the email as much as you did, because she doesn't have the background you have. She hasn't done the course work. Also, I use demographics. Make the message fit the people it is sent to, and I wasn't thinking of her when I wrote it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You should go for NC this way - if you can get it. POJA consists of making it work for both of you. Asking: "what would it take for you to WANT NC?" If she comes to you with the deal, and you think it will work, then you should do it.

I continue to be busy with work, but perhaps I can post a few on my lunch "hour" today. It is so cool to see you excited about something related to your marriage. Shoot, I'm excited, and my nickname in high school was "poker face."

I'll tell my W and then she will be excited - it's always good for her to be excited. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Meanwhile the lawyer is still thinking about things? Or have you pretty well made a decision?

SS

SS:

Thanks. Yeah, I know you wrote that for me, but she complained that after our argument Sunday morning or Saturday night, that I went on the forum and complained 2 my friends. By sending her your reply, she can see the kind of support I really do get. It almost helps, I think, that it was meant for ME, not smoothed over for her. Not that it wasn't smooth, mind you. You're a very smooth talker! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I like your idea about POJAing the NC arrangement. About the only thing she's ever admittedly agreed with from MB, and she agreed with it over a year ago... ...just hasn't been willing 2 apply it 2 "certain aspects of her life". Till now, that is. Will keep working on working on.

We're probably going 2 give this new lawyer a go for now.

Yes, it is fun when they're excited, isn't it? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

<small>[ December 12, 2003, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: 2long ]</small>

I used to get excited myself, back when I was young. I think I was about 46 or 47 and I used to get excited all the time.

Now I'm 48, and almost as old as you, so I have slowed down considerable.

Won't you please have a nice weekend?
SS

SS:

Will do my best.

Was having a good day at work, then got a call from our contractor. He wants money again. For work that's just about done, but not done. Of course, he sent the bill for it 3 weeks ago, so I guess we should feel bad that we didn't pay it then so that he could finish it in a couple weeks from now?

Darn. Now I'm upset. I would much rather finish my house singlehandedly, without another dime, than deal with whiney twits.

-2long

Okay, so 2 get my mind of the twits, I've been running a song through my head. 2 bad you can't hear it, the vocals are beautiful <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

"Mornixuur", -Bel Canto

"Between the longest days
I search and wonder
You might come inside my world
To escape the doubts, there ain't no other
Reason nor a purpose
Show me the way, show me the way, show me the way
When all is ready, set and done

If our dreams and hopes
Will fall asunder...
We are here for a purpose
When our love is alive
We are descendants of love
Alive and awake
We are descendants of love

Free your mind
The early dawn, the early dawn
Way, oh we are, I say we are...
Way...
We are,
We are descendants of love"

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> 2long

2L,

It sounds as if things are finally coming to the point that you could call this very very serious recovery. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You have done a masterful job 2L. Keep up the good work.

Hopefully next year I will see you up here with the assembled masses (~10,000 this year).

Take good care OK?

JL

JL:

Wow! 10K? That's a lot!

I might even have something exciting 2 say, if all goes well next month!

Thanks for the vote of confidence. Things are very different now. True awakenings all around. Some upsets, 2, but those are 2 be expected, I suppose.

-ol' 2long

2long

Thats great news about NC, but here's something to think about that wasn't mentioned in this thread -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Instead of my usual 3 or so beers during the day while working on the house, I think I drank 9. That night, she told me that it scares her when I drink that much. I replied that I drank that much because I'm still scared about our fu2re. The convo pretty much ended then. End sidebar:
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So, she brought that up again, and said that she hadn't responded 2 his reply, and would be willing 2 go NC if I would not drink that much anymore. She said that I didn't have 2 answer right away, that I could think about it for a while. So I'm still "thinking about it", though I'm jumping up and down cautiously on the inside. Jumping up and down because she does realize that I need NC 2 move forward and she can do it. Cautious because I know she still thinks it's "s2pid", and she still seems 2 avoid any MB-like methods, coaching, counseling, or book-reading. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I havn't been on these boards for a while and I havn't followed your stroy but something really sticks out here - You say you need NC to move forward, she says no drinking. You two are in a stalemate. Why not take the approach of "let it begin with me?" If drinking is an issue with her, why not just stop? She is giving you clues as to what she needs. You may not see anything wrong with it, but if it bothers her, then it will be between you two.

Just a thought - How do you feel about it?

D.

<small>[ December 14, 2003, 12:29 AM: Message edited by: WillGetThruThis ]</small>

WGTT:

Hi! Long time no hear!

I've thought a lot about that very thing. My W didn't ask me 2 stop drinking, just not 2 excess. I don't really like drinking 2 excess, anyway, so that's not a difficult thing 2 give up.

But if the truth be known, I'd be happy 2 stop drinking any alcohol, if that's what it takes 2 show her MY sincerity. Good suggestion.

Things are SO different now. They really are. Looking back on just the past 4-6 months, I think we had 2 go through exactly the things we've been through and for that exact period of time. There's no rushing this personal growth stuff. Sure, none of us has infinite patience, but if we muster up all our energies and give it the good ol' try it deserves, I think we'll always, always pleasantly surprise ourselves at just how patient we can be.

The edge of the woods is wide and it takes time 2 traverse. But the clearing is visible.

-ol' 2long

What cool news 2long....so when do you tell her "HECK YEAH!"? Or are you trying to make it look like you're "considering" it? LOL.

Star:

LOL! Good 2uestion! I have no idea why it didn't come up this weekend. But it didn't. Maybe the closeness got in the way! LOL some more.

We moved my son back in2 his room, in which the paint was still drying while we were moving the furni2re in2 (and that new stuff is HEAVY - makes me hate those 12-ft ceilings, more stairs 2 climb!). So, we worked HARD on the house all weekend. But the good news? We're going 2 take it easy for a while now. Have 2, because our lawyer says we shouldn't fix loss-related stuff until we settle with our insurance company. That's okay, because there's plenty of stuff not related 2 the loss that I can keep busy with for a year or so! ...but we all have rooms now - my son is no longer in the garage.

As for the Heck yeah? I think I said something like that, or responded with some measure of guarded excitement (is that possible? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ). It was after that she said "think about it, you don't have 2 answer right away." Maybe I should answer right away, though? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

-ol' 2long

My mom sent me this - and I thought of you.
Isn't that sweet of me?

Or not, depending on how you look at things.


THE FOUR STAGES OF LIFE:

1) You believe in Santa Claus.
2) You don't believe in Santa Claus.
3) You are Santa Claus.
4) You look like Santa Claus.


SS

SS! That's what it says on the Xmas pjs I got my husband LOL. He will laugh so loud....mainly because he looks so young but he's such a scrooge.

But it goes like this:

You believe in Santa Claus
You think Santa is fake
You play Santa
You look like Santa

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>