Hello friends here at this message board.
It makes me SO SAD when I read how Betrayed Spouses feel, if they had done something different, their spouse would not have had an affair.

I am telling you from my experience to NOT BLAME YOURSELF, it is bigger and deeper than that....Kinda like as impossible for you to have stopped your mate from cheating, by giving more to them or fulfilling more emotional and sexual needs; then stopping the wind from blowing or the sun from rising!

Here are Haleys 10 emotional needs:
"Admiration, affection, conversation, domestic support, family commitment, financial support, honesty and openness, physical attractiveness, recreational companionship and sexual fulfillment). Hardly anyone named a most important emotional need that was not included in this list of ten."

My husband was fulfilling my needs yet I had an affair!...The man I grew to love and who loved me was a sick and dying man when I met him; through the miracle of a transplant, he got better! And I was his friend and lover for over 10 years without my husband or anyone knowing!

My husband still doesn't know and since I do NOT BLAME HIM in the slightest for my unfaithfulness, I choose NOT to tell him! (And thank you ALL for giving me MANY lectures of why the honest thing to do would be to tell him.)
You say I need my husband to help FIX our marriage...I feel it is entirely up to me to do any repairs since it is NOT HIS FAULT, BUT MINE!

My OM met another lady in August (a former classmate who is a widowed lady for the past 3 years) and they are going to share the rest of their lives together...They love one another and meet all the emotional needs listed above!
He always wanted me for keeps but I would not leave my husband or publicly shame my daughters, grandchildren, parents, sisters, church friends, (myself) etc, by letting them know about my affair!..

The price for my own selfish happiness with this OM would have been TOO HIGH of a price to pay and I could NEVER be happy knowing I hurt so many people if I left my husband to marry another man!

I miss my OM very very much....We had daily conversations...We had stopped most of the love-making times (maybe twice a year) as I was having too much guilt...
I miss him more than words can say!

I know it is disgusting to most of you to read what I just wrote...
But I am just telling you like it is in my heart..
AGAIN, IT IS NOT MY HUSBAND'S FAULT, NOT ONE LITTLE BIT...IT IS TOTALLY MINE!
Sincerely, Sarah

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

I was wondering if other unfaithful men or women take full responsibility and do not blame their spouses whatsoever?
Love, Sarah

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 08:01 AM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

I had an affair while married to my first husband. I KNOW that he was not at fault. He did nothing wrong. We had a happy marriage and were best friends but then I turned STUPID.

I never blamed my H for my affair -- he was not even 1% responsible. I confessed my infidelity to him after a few months and he wanted to stay married and said he could forgive me. I have never been able to forgive myself for causing him that pain.

When I married my second husband, I knew I could never be unfaithful again. Now I find myself in the position of the betrayed spouse. My H has had three affairs in the past twelve years but just confessed them to me within the past three months.

If I ever had any doubts about confessing my infidelity to my first H, I do not now. My H should have told me about his EMA many years ago. Knowing the years of unfaithfulness, lies, and deception makes me extrememly sad and angry.

He believed "whatever she doesn't know, won't hurt her" but that is not true. Our marriage slowly deteriorated through these years since he began his first affair. The family has grown apart. He was not there emotionally for me and our children and we have suffered, even when we didn't know the cause.

I knew the only way I could redeem myself was to confess my affair to my H and when I remarried to honor my husband and our vows. I guess that was not enough -- I had to suffer as my first H suffered to truly know how much pain I caused.

Taking full responsibility means telling your victim of your crime. Have you done that yet? If not, you are NOT taking responsibility for ANYTHING and are only playing more head games. It is not responsible to HIDE your acts from your victim. It is responsible to confess your acts and quit harming your victim, something which you stated earlier you had no intention of doing.

Furthermore, if you think that the point of Marriage Builders principles is to assign the responsibility of the affair to the VICTIM, then you have MISSED THE ENTIRE POINT. No one is ever responsible for the affair except the person who CHOSE TO HAVE the affair.

However, that doesn't mean that the BS hasn't contributed to the condition of the marriage that LED TO the affair. There is a HUGE difference between contributing to said condition and having an affair; you don't seem to discern the difference.

And lastly, Sarie, you sure are full of advice for a person whose own personal life and moral system is a wreck. Why not fix YOURSELF and your marriage before you commence to fix others? The Harleys have helped HUNDREDS restore their marriages through these basic principles of honesty, you cannot even help yourself.

toofar said.....

I never blamed my H for my affair -- he was not even 1% responsible

correct the bs is NOT responsible for the actions of an affair...that lays soley with the WS...

Sarie..
no one here is argueing with you...that your affair is 100% your action

post after post of yours identifies ways your MM fullfills you in this or that way...and your husband does not..

I do NOT BLAME HIM in the slightest for my unfaithfulness, I choose NOT to tell him!

lets be clear NO ONE here blames your husband for your unfaithfullness...
no here has told you tell him because of YOUR unfaithfullness...
you alone are responsible for your faithfullness


once agian here you be...
rationalizing the heck out of not to tell him...
somethings eating at you...
don't twist our words to fullfill your need to not "look bad"...

past and present actions define us...
it is our actions that speak the loudest of what we value..

you continue to protect yourself and your om...over your husband..
day after day..

it is your choice sarie...but the route you choose if full of pain for you
your husband and your marriage...
it is just an opinion..
but one often formed from great pain...and ones of great insight and value...

ARK

Dear Ark and others.
I am not saying for one minute that not telling the BS about an affair is the right way to go; it is just my discision and I do not recommend it to others...

The majority here at this site say to tell.

That is not my intention of this message.
My intention is to let the BS know, that they are not to blame...I want them to see inside the mind of an unfaithful spouse!

As you read many many posts from BS, they take SO MUCH of the responsibility for their mate being unfaithful and they SHOULDN'T!

Many many marriages have almost NONE of the needs by either spouse being met, yet they never have an affair; neither one of them!

I think we need to remember that 'affair' is just a word.
What it really is, is two people, two human beings, probably kind & loving people, that get on the wrong road (choose to be on that road) because they are so emotionally 'smitten' with one another, that for some, it seems the 'right' thing to do at the time. (But of course is 'wrong'.
That is where the mental FOG comes to play.
Sincerely, Sarah

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 09:03 AM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

What if you discovered that you H had an affair and he decided not to tell you, would you let it slide?

I think we need to remember that 'affair' is just a word.

What it really is, is two people, two human beings, probably kind & loving people, that get on the wrong road (choose to be on that road) because they are so emotionally 'smitten' with one another, that for some, it seems the 'right' thing to do at the time. (But of course is 'wrong'.

deceiptful is just a word
deception is just a word
cruel is just a word
unfair is just a word
selfish is just a word...

they are all just words...
yet they are words that are anything BUT kind and loving...

poor poor poor victims that have affairs...

If that's the way you feel Sarie...it's your choice..but it works both ways..

affair is just a word to you..
well then obviously so is marriage
commitment
and vows..
pretty much sums it all up and explains everything...

ark

Dear Jazzy.
I am glad you see that it is NOT your fault that your husband CHOSE to have an affair.

Many couples work night shift and stay faithful to one another.

Dear Ark, the advice so often given, to no longer have any contact is such easy advice to give. If an affair is a love affair of two people that care very very much about one another; it seems the advice is still "Get over it, it was JUST an 'affair', like it is just a 'word' and doesn't have anything to do with our hearts!

That is what I mean by it is so much more than just a word !
Love, Sarah

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 09:40 AM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

it seems the advice is still "Get over it, it was JUST an 'affair', like it is a 'word' and doesn't have anything to do with our hearts!

Yeah..that's why there is article after article...and post after post..in realizing that there is a withdrawl period when disentangling ones self from an emotional affair...and how to support someone who realizes even with all the emotional attachment...it is not right and is cruel to the BS..

but you're not cruel eh..you're a victim..of your own emotions....

try to stop twisting the words that others speak of here to fit your agenda..and try to start with the basic belief and value system of what are actions say about ourselves..
what price we are willing to pay to meet our own needs...
what our own actions say about how we feel and respect others in our lives....


no one says get over it....lightly...
again sarie...no one here believes that actions of a SPOUSES (ooops that's right..spouse is just a word)..
infidelity are the fault of the betrayed...
and even when a BS feels that their actions caused the affair...they are wrong...not wrong to feel that way...but to believe that...each of us are responsilbe for their own actions and choices...

what's your point here sarie..
to justify all of your actions...
why??
why here??

Is commitment used casually here as well..
easy to say...be committed...but just hard to do...

ark

What you say is true and right, Ark.

I guess I am still very sad and in despairing withdrawal from the daily conversations with HIM.

I'm sorry.
Sarah

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sarie:
<strong> What you say is true and right, Ark.

I guess I am still very sad and in despairing withdrawal from the daily conversations with HIM.

I'm sorry.
Sarah </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your greatest supporter should be your H. Your H should fillin that need ... otherwise the chances you slip again is very high. just my 2¢. -rh-

Hi Sarie,

I think it's excellent that you see that your decision to have an affair is in no way your husbands fault. You'd be surprised at the number of WS who continue to blame their spouse for the affair.

As Melody and others have already pointed out, the condition of the marriage affects your decision making. I think that you have to be careful of putting your marriage on a pedestal and not carefully examining what allowed you to become disconnected to the point of straying.

There were issues in my marriage that I didn't even know existed until we began real recovery. My W was unhappy with a lot of things I didn't know about. I'm doing my best to fix those things.

Obviously, your OM did something for you that your H doesn't. You would have never strayed otherwise. How can your H ever correct that if he doesn't know what's wrong?

You already know how we feel about telling your H, so I won't harp on that anymore. But at the very least, you have to open a dialog about the state of your marriage with your H if you're going to prevent this from happening again.

And just a reminder...I was a WS. I've been there, done that.

Low

Dear dear Low.
I just don't even blame, that something was wrong with our marriage, that led me to be unfaithful.

I just had such a love and caring for this other man; and at the same time I still loved my husband.
It is odd how I can love two men at the same time but differently.

I am sure you still loved your wife, even though you had a love affair with someone else...True?
It cannot be explained by our mortal words!

I guess that is why I don't want to tell my husband; he can't make me no longer have feelings for this OM...It will just take TIME for the blessed healing to take place.
So that is what my plan is; to give it TIME.

Low, I try to make up for my unfaithfulness in so many small ways;;;I don't ever raise my voice at him, even when he is angry and carrying on;;;;I even washed the dog poop from his shoes for him yesterday;;;;I walk a mile with him every evening even though it is below freezing as he likes my companionship;;;;I have his supper on the table when he walks in the door;;;;I just decorated our big real Christmas tree that we cut down without asking him to help;;;;I know these are superficial things and don't get to the emotional root of the problem BUT I don't see it as a problem that HE CAN FIX...

I won't have another affair; that makes it sound like what the OM and I had was just something for fun and excitement and doesn't bring into focus the love and caring.

Thanks for your note, Low.
I hope life is going good for you now and you have been truly forgiven.
Love, Sarah

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

sarie ...

just when i thought i wasn't going to expend the effort again ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

redhat says something that's worth thinking about. if you were to poll the waywards here, i'd guess that the overwhelming majority of them would say that they needed their spouse to help them get through their own pain, through the withdrawal.

and if you were to ask the betrayeds here, almost all of them would tell you that they would gladly and eagerly step up and help.

it's a crazy notion -- that a person so profoundly wounded by a wayward spouse would willingly help that spouse 'get over' a lover.

right now, your husband can be your biggest ally at a time when you could really use one. and, therein, lies the shame. it's sad.

Sarah,

You are missing the obvious. What you are failing to understand is that Harley is a VERY pragmatic man. The reason for No Contact is </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear Ark, the advice so often given, to no longer have any contact is such easy advice to give. If an affair is a love affair of two people that care very very much about one another; it seems the advice is still "Get over it, it was JUST an 'affair', like it is just a 'word' and doesn't have anything to do with our hearts!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The part in BOLD is precisely why you need no contact. You will ONLY GET OVER IT if you have no contact. Harley realized that an affair is rarely truely over. It has a chance (no matter how small) of reigniting when contact has remained and the normal up's and down's of marriage and life occur.

Sarah, did you talk with your H about your deceased son? Have you told him how you felt and feel?

You see I notice the timing of your affair (your early 40's, your son passing in an accident, and you starting your affair) as not coincidences. I wonder if your H is going to have to die before you can love him again. You don't now.

You see the real lie is that you keep saying your H does not need to know, you love him, etc. You do NOT love your H, or your OM wouldn't be on your mind all of the time. Your H has missed out on a decade of your care, your focus, your love, your attention. You admittedly spent most of the day in communications with OM. You nursed him, you focused on him, you wanted him to live as your son could not.

In all of that time, your H has NOT been the recepient of your love. Just your guilt, some friendship, your play acting. You think I am wrong?

Who have you been thinking about the most for the last 10 years? Who have you focused on and changed your life to make happy? It was and is OM.

If both the OM and your H died today, you would grieve the lose of OM much more than your H. You spent your time talking to your OM. You miss his conversations although you still do have contact. Your H??? You might miss his pay check, maybe his friendship and his ability to trust what is NOT there. But his LOVE? No, you have to give love to feel love and you have given your H little so you feel little.

The truely sad thing is that you should have really divorced your H and married OM. Then two people would be happy and only one devastated. As it is, OM is happy, you are not, and your H is married to a woman that does not respect him. It is a very very sad thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

In your focus on yourself and OM, you really have not realized what you robbed your H and your family of: yourself your time and your love. Your focus was on OM and still is. Let's face it, you didn't leave your H because you didn't want to look bad, and frankly felt that you could keep what you had anyway. You once stated that you would have slept with OM more if it kept him instead of him finding his current GF. Your H nor your family have been your primary focus only the preservation of your reputation and your relationship with OM. You still hope that he will come back don't you?

You see the hope that he will come back is one MAJOR unspoken reason that most WS don't want to write a NC letter or tell their spouse.

Sarah, you need to end ALL contact with OM, NOW. You need to return to your religious foundations whatever they are. You need to address the loss of your son. When you do these things please reread all that you have written here. You will be appalled and you will begin to see why you are getting the advice you have.

Believe me, your H should NOT be hurt by what YOU AND OM decided to do. But, he has been. And he will need to be if he is ever to have the marriage HE desires. You see after all of these years and your actions you don't have the right to determine what his marriage will be or who it will be to. You gave that right up. He is on his own now and has been for 10 years. He just doesn't know that the woman he is married to cannot be counted on when things are rough. She will hide, she will seek someone else, and she will not face her own grief.

It is a very very sad thing Sarah. It truely is.

God Bless,

JL

Sarie:

Don't be a fool. Well, you're already being a fool, in my very, very humble BS opinion, so I guess I'm suggesting you stry stopping it.

Please look up my thread from a year and a half ago, about "measured honesty": http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=017551#000000

My W had 2 As with the same OM (Rat Meat). Why? Because they broke it off on their own once, but without help from either BS (because they didn't tell about the A), they even2ally hooked up again and started another A. EVEN SO, when I found out almost 2 years ago, I chose FIRST 2 figure out what went wrong and how I could save my M.

I believe that it is "possible" 2 love more than one person the way you say you do. It is NOT possible, however, 2 give yourself 100% 2 either man. The OM, knowing you're in a comitted relationship, DOES NOT CARE, because he doesn't have 2 care - he got what he "needed" from your clandestine rendezvous - he never had 2 help you clean baby barf off the kitchen floor during dinner. Your H was NEVER given a choice, which is his right. After all, he signed up for a monogamous relationship with YOU, and you robbed him of that.

Give your H back his RIGHT 2 CHOOSE. And be pleasantly surprised at the growth you BOTH will experience over the years 2 come.

Choose NOT 2 be a liar for the rest of your life.

-ol' 2long

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sarie:
... Low, I try to make up for my unfaithfulness in so many small ways;;;I don't ever raise my voice at him, even when he is angry and carrying on;;;;I even washed the dog poop from his shoes for him yesterday;;;;I walk a mile with him every evening even though it is below freezing as he likes my companionship;;;;I have his supper on the table when he walks in the door;;;;I just decorated our big real Christmas tree that we cut down without asking him to help;;;;I know these are superficial things and don't get to the emotional root of the problem BUT I don't see it as a problem that HE CAN FIX...</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and this is the marriage that you want? that your husband wants?

as i see it, you have two choices. you can find the courage to confront the things that are crippling your marriage and then do something about it. or you can continue to be cruel to yourself and your husband.

if your heart is set on the latter, then at least be kind and respectful enough to let your husband go, to be free to find happiness with another woman. it is the very least you could do.

Dear JL and 2 Long and Whippit.
Your messages always go deep into the core of the problem!
The OM and I are still in contact....He calls once or twice a month (I think he worries about me, how I am dealing with us being OVER.)
We also e-mail friendly notes, about twice a week. (Not love letters.)

Yes, JL, my husband and I talked about the death of our son but it just brought back sad memories of when he was here with us...We both think of how it would be today had he lived...He would be happily married with children and loving every minute of life!

Ours son's death is NOT why I had an affair..
And it wasn't because something was wrong with our marriage.
It was because of the love and caring that developed between the OM and myself.
What started innocently, evolved into a deep deep love!

You are right, my mind has been on the OM often! You are probably right also that the OM and I should have destroyed families and me gotten divorced and OM and I gotten married!
BUT I don't see that as the answer!
FAR TOO SELFISH!

And it seems so cruel, almost crueler than an affair, for our mates to have to witness us weeping and grieving for a lost lover!
I just cannot bring myself to purposely tell him; had he found out, I would have HAD to tell!

I guess I WANT to live in my world of making believe everything in our marriage is okay!

And when my husband passes on, I will be THANKFUL that he NEVER knew.
And I DO love him!
Sincerely, Sarah

<small>[ December 15, 2003, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>