New here and searching for answers. My wife had an affiar this past summer and I found out 14 weeks ago. The affair had been going on for about7 weeks and I found some emails that clearly indicated what was happening. The sex was limited (oral) him 3 times her 2, and the sex had only been happening for the last 10 days prior to me finding out. We have been marrried for 21 years, together for 25 and have 3 kids.

When confronted she had first tried to say that it was only fantasy email and nothing had actually happended. I did not believe and she fessed up to the whole story within 24 hours. She has past issues (her father left when she was five, mother had a nervous breakdown, deep problems within herself that father left her, not her mother.) She has self esteme problems but is a beautiful, kind gentle loving woman who historically has been a people pleaser.

When confronted about the reasons for the affair, she claims deep depression, which given her past over the last 25 years I believe. She has since been prescribed prozac. She claims he made her feel like a person again, wanted attractive, needed. He gave her confidence that someone would persue her. She has stated she did not want a sexual relationship, and in fact had attempted to end the relationship at least 3 times before. I can confirm that she had ended it the day before I found out, but she had gone back before, so I'm not sure how strong the urge to end it really was. I do believe the sexual part, her not wanting it, but she was doing it to keep the nice words, attraction compliments coming her way. She was doing it for her self esteem. She did not find the man pyhsically attractive or very interesting. She just wanted the attention, the ego boost.

She dropped him immediately when I confronted her, and stated that when I confronted her it was like someone slapping a deliourous person in the face bringing them back to reality. In the time since she has entered individual counsleing and we are going to Marriage counseling as well as going through the recommended books and sites.

My question here is it appears she is comitted, willing to do anything to save the marriage, keeping logs of her whereabouts, conversations travel etc. She answers all questions I put to her about the affair, times, places, sex, him etc. I need to find out if depression can actually cause someone to live in a fantasy world. Would depression be sufficent to drive someone to do this, without any deep feelings for the other person involved. We have discusseed other minor issues that may have contributed to it, but in effect she is blaming the depression, almost claiming a type of temp. insanity. any comments would be appreciated, expecially from Unfaithful wives who may have been under the same problem. The other question I have been struggling with is if I should tell the OM's wife. I know that if someone had known about this affair I would have appreciated them telling me, however I am not sure how this woman will react, will she take it out on my wife or could the OM take it out on my family. My wife fully supports me if I feel I need to do this, but also is afraid of the reaction that may follow. I have waited this long to make sure that I was not reacting out of vengence, but I think morally she deserves to know. Any advise or your esperience in this area would be greatly appreciated.

summer - sorry you are here. I can't address all your questions at the moment, but wanted to offer some reading regarding your question of telling OM's wife.

Click on the link below in my sig line and read that post. Embedded in that post will be other links to other posts - including one on informing the other spouse. Most of the discussion concerns this issue in on-going affairs. The prominent view on this forum for those situations is TELL, TELL, TELL!! If your W's affair is really over, the answer may not be as clear.

Good luck,

I'm sorry this has happened to you.

I'm a FWS so my take may be a bit different than other BSs here.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Would depression be sufficent to drive someone to do this, without any deep feelings for the other person involved. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, depression and low self-esteem can muddy one's sense of morality. They're in pain and desperately want to get out of it. An affair is an escape from this pain. Anti-depressants like Prozac tend to reduce one's anxiety levels in general, and therefore reduce the anxiety associated with crossing moral boundaries. It's JMHO that anti-depressants make it harder for a depressed person to resist destructive escape paths. They should be coached through with talk therapy to ensure they are aware of their vulnerabilities.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> The other question I have been struggling with is if I should tell the OM's wife. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I go against the flow here on this one. I think that you should focus on rebuilding your own marriage. The OM and his wife are essentially irrelevant as far you're concerned. You should consider whether telling the OM wife will be a love buster for YOUR wife. If so, I don't advise telling her.

While both spouses knew about the affair I was in, I really didn't think it productive to have contact of any sort with the OW or her H after we went NC. My wife often wanted to contact the OW's H. Every time she did, he would make up terrible lies about me with the intent of hurting me the way he was hurt. He once told my wife that the OW and I had SF in front of their children and he thought his son could be mine. These accusations were logistically impossible (he always had the kids and I didn't know OW when son was born). My wife would become confused and angry, causing a lot of stress we didn't need. Eventually the OW's H started calliing her. I had to threaten him with an RO before he left her alone.

Low

<small>[ December 17, 2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

Hello,

Absolutely inform the OM's wife for a couple of reasons.
First, if the roles were reverse wouldn't you want to know for your own health reasons at the very least?
Second, by informing the OM's wife it will be much more difficult for the OM to ever resume the affair with your wife later on. If he feels he got away with it then it will encourage him to continue in the future.
Third, the Harley's believe it is essential to inform all parties by shining the light of truth on the affair. If you do not do this then you are in fact enabling the affair to continue in the future because there were no consequences to the OM's actions.
In short, by all means inform the OM's wife and do it soon. Good luck

I bet you'll have two schools of thought here: the WS will say not to notify, the offended spouses will say to notify.

I am an offended spouse and I say notify. BUT, not if your W is so against it that it will harm your real concern--your own marriage.

I would want the other person's spouse to notify me if my H's A partner got caught. When I called the H of my H's EA partner(he expected my call as his W confessed before I called), I was brief and calm. Very careful not to state opinions, just facts and let him know he needed to talk to his W. I started off saying "I don't want to alarm your or cause problems for your family, but I think you have a right to know...". It went very well, but in the end didn't help my own marital situation--in all honesty might have made things worse b/c caught H in more lies. Be prepared for that. I would definitely not recommend making it a habit to talk to the OP spouse.

Tough call I guess. Best of luck with whatever your decide.

summer ... it is sad that you're here. but welcome. there are lots of really great people who here who can be an awesome support system.

i tend to agree with worthatry (wat). the key for you is carefully consider what you have to gain or lose by doing so. telling the op's spouse can be a powerful tool, so be sure you know how to use it and what consequences to expect.

in your case, at least for the short term, i say hold off. take care of the other things that need to happen -- namely a no contact letter from your wife to the om.

i know this doesn't solve the moral dilemma. the om's wife should know, i agree. i chose not to tell our om's significant other only because i felt it diverted my limited energies away from wher i had more direct influence. (i did leave it open as an option for plan b should i have needed it).

read wat's other threads ... there's good stuff in there.

Originally posted by summer2003:

When confronted she had first tried to say that it was only fantasy email and nothing had actually happended. I did not believe and she fessed up to the whole story within 24 hours.

One (truely awful) thing to consider... how do you know that she told you "the whole story"?

The thing about cheaters is, once caught he/she will often have been lying for so long that "the whole story" becomes wishful thinking. It is very unusual for the BS to actually hear the 100% truth right away. There is often some ugly part still hiding ..... the part the cheater is most ashamed of. The details of the A which the cheater doesn't even wish to admit to themself, much less their BS.

Your W might be an exception, and perhaps she is 100% telling you the whole story .... but, I would be surprised.

The thing about affairs is this .... that unless everything is exposed .... there is a hidden infection that stays in the marriage.

Cheaters will say pretty quickly: "Let's just move past all this hurt and pain and get on with our lives. We shouldn't dwell on the past." .... and meanwhile there can be hidden issues that poison the recovery.

I am not ready to weigh in about informing OM'ss wife at this point. However, you may want to hold on to this option.

I want you to be alert to the possibility that there may be more secrets. There may have been other affairs. There may have been intercourse. Time will tell.

One of the consequences for serious lying is this .... credibility is shot.

Your W saying that it was all fantasy email.... and not being forthright from the beginning is NORMAL .... and I very much doubt you know all the facts yet.

Ask your wife to get tested for STDs.

I know this is not pleasant, and my post may bug you, but I have experience in this way that gives me some instinctual notions. My instinct is telling me your wife has some cards yet to be played.

Take care.

Pep

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Third, the Harley's believe it is essential to inform all parties by shining the light of truth on the affair. If you do not do this then you are in fact enabling the affair to continue in the future because there were no consequences to the OM's actions.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think this is a Harley quote to be applied in the case of an affair that has ended. If I read correctly, Summer's wife has ended the affair and is repentent. I believe it's usually only advocated in the case where the affair is ongoing and should be exposed to prompt it's demise.

Read through WAT's guidelines...good stuff in there.

Summer, this is not about punishing the OM (consequences). This is about rebuilding your relationship with your wife.

Bryan, can you post a link to this concept?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I bet you'll have two schools of thought here: the WS will say not to notify, the offended spouses will say to notify.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">AMG, if you haven't lurked or posted here long, you'll soon discover that no one appreciates very broad generalizations like this one. They aren't very helpful. JMHO, I believe you'll find that most WS who have bought into MB will advocate telling the OP spouse to expose the affair. However, as you've noted, telling for any other reason tends to be counterproductive to your own recovery because it maintains contact with the world of the OP.

Carefully examine your motives for telling and the potential effect it will have on YOUR marriage from this point forward.

Low

<small>[ December 17, 2003, 03:09 PM: Message edited by: LowOrbit ]</small>

Yes, the OP's spouse is supposed to be informed. This has multiple reasons. The spouse has the right to know, of course. It helps that spouse in their marriage to know the problems. It also helps keep the former lovers honest. Withdrawal is hard, and it will definitely be helpful in keeping contact from resuming to have the OP's spouse aware of the problem.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think this is a Harley quote to be applied in the case of an affair that has ended. If I read correctly, Summer's wife has ended the affair and is repentent. I believe it's usually only advocated in the case where the affair is ongoing and should be exposed to prompt it's demise </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">No it is correct. Harley says tell all period. The reason for telling even when an affair has ended to is to eliminate any chance of it starting up again.

There are other valid reasons to tell as well.

As noted the only way to know if you have the whole truth is to verify it from another source and the OP's spouse is the best possible source.
My wife really believed it had been going on a little over a year but it was 2 1/2 years. So even if they are trying to be completely open and honest they really have a distorted sense of how deeply involved and how long it was going on.

As for self esteem it tends to play a much more prominent role in women who stray than men though it applies to both genders.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=31;t=009539

My wife's low self esteem from her hidden sexual abuse contributed a great deal in the poor choices she made. Note contributes doesn't mean causes or is the reason they still make choices perhaps with impaired judgement but they aren't mindless zombies being driven to do something against thier will.

Other reasons to tell:

Right now you really can't say if unprotected sex occurred because odds are she will deny it. That's a health risk for everyone involved including the innocent spouses.

To stop future pain. Some affairs just happen some involve serial cheaters but regardless all affairs involve deep pain for the betrayed spouses. Undetected affairs often foster more affairs. Affairs need secrecy to happen. Exposing even an ended affair helps discourage future affairs.

And as others noted you would want to be told if the shoe were on the other foot and she knew about it but you were in the dark.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by AMG:
<strong> I bet you'll have two schools of thought here: the WS will say not to notify, the offended spouses will say to notify.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't see how that would make a difference unless you think everyone is answering based on unprincipled self interest. I don't believe they are. I would answer YES, not because I am a BS, but because it is the moral thing to do. That doesn't change whether I am a WS or a BS.

I would also warn someone whose bookkeeper was embezzling money from them simply for moral reasons, regardless of whether or not I have been robbed. I would warn them because it is the right thing to do. My selfish interests do not dictate my principles.

I also think she should be warned. It is the decent thing to warn someone when they are being destroyed behind their back. And it also prevents him, hopefully, from doing this with someone else's wife.

So, I guess we're saying that the spouse of the OP from a long dead affair should be told no matter what?

This just does not make sense to me.

I don't disagree that the spouse of the OP should know...the crux is whether it is the BS job to do it.

Low

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, I guess we're saying that the spouse of the OP from a long dead affair should be told no matter what?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Nobody said long dead at least that is not what I read.

I believe the bulk of the discussion was over an affair recently ended.

We are not talking about grandma finding today about a one night stand when grandpa was serving in WWII.

I have never, in all my Harley reading, seen him preclude exposure based on a time limit or whether the affair was still active. I don't see how that changes anything. The reasons that a victim needs to know remain the same, whether it is active or not.

The victim has a RIGHT to know what has [or is] happened in their own life so they can make a decision if they want to stay in the marriage. They have a RIGHT to know to whom they are married and may choose to move on. They also have to know so they can protect themselves from this person.

If someone embezzles money from me in 2004 or in 1999, you can bet your as* I would have a right to know regardless of whether it had stopped or not. The decent thing is always to tell the victim that he/she has been victimized.

<small>[ December 18, 2003, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Embezzling money is illegal and is punishable by a jail sentence.

Having an affair is morally wrong but not illegal so they really cannot be compared.

The thing about telling someone else about their own partner's affair, it must be done only in love and caring and NOT FOR REVENGE.

It seems it would be far best ALWAYS for the mate to tell their own spouse.
(At least, I would hope and pray, you give the spouse the warning and opportunity before you decide to tell them yourself.)

We can't go around telling everything to everybody as if we are the 'morality policemen'!
A lot of 'do-gooders' need to examine their reasoning for what they do as they could cause more harm than good, true?
Sincerely, Sarah

<small>[ December 18, 2003, 07:12 AM: Message edited by: Sarie ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Sarie:
<strong> Embezzling money is illegal and is punishable by a jail sentence.

Having an affair is morally wrong but not illegal so they really cannot be compared.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Of course they can be compared, they are both profoundly immoral and both have victims. It makes no difference if one is illegal and one is not. They are both morally wrong. I don't warn the embezzler only because its illegal, but because the person is being victimized. There are victims in both acts and that is the point. The victim of adultery needs to be warned just as much, if not more, as the embezzlement victim.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We can't go around telling everything to everybody as if we are the 'morality policemen'!
A lot of 'do-gooders' need to examine their reasoning for what they do as they could cause more harm than good, true?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Isn't it a little self serving for YOU, the victimizer, to be lecturing us to "examine our reasons" for suggesting that your victim be warned? C'mon, Sarah. Do you know how ridiculous that looks coming from you, an unrepentent adulterer?

<small>[ December 18, 2003, 07:20 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Dear Melody.
I just hope before someone decides to take it upon themselves to tell my husband about my affair (the only ones that know are all of you here at this message board) I would hope they warn me of their intentions and would give ME the chance to tell him first.
Sincerely, Sarah

Sarah, but didn't you forfeit any expectation of a pre-warning when you refused to tell him voluntarily?

If someone did tell your H it would only be because you had chosen to NOT tell him when you had the chance.

If you only told him because you were forced, I sure wouldn't feel confident that your WS would get anything close to the truth because your sincerity and credibility is highly dubious.

When you refuse to tell your victim, you willingly take the risk of someone else [maybe even your MM] telling him, and have absolutely no right to expect a fore-warning. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You forfeit any obligatory warning in my book.

Originally posted by Sarie:

It seems it would be far best ALWAYS for the mate to tell their own spouse.

Dear Lady,

Until you muster the integrity to actually become an honest and truthful spouse with your own H, your ideas of "far best" can only have limited value. You lie and deceive your H, someone you claim to LOVE, thereby you trash your own reputation as a person with integrity.

Pep

<small>[ December 18, 2003, 10:30 AM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Having an affair is morally wrong but not illegal so they really cannot be compared.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sarie that is not true in more than half the states in the US.

In my state of Georgia adultery is a defined crime with misdemeanor status.

Its not widely enforced and ranks right up there with spitting on a public sidewalk in terms of possible punishment but its still a crime.

When I first discovered my wife's affair and the fact the OM was a convicted felon on federal probation I seriously considered filing charges. I didn't soley to avoid embarrassing my wife but had I filed the OM would have had his probation revoked and wound up in federal prison. Where he would stay until trial. If convicted he would have to serve his 3 year term for his federal felony conviction due violating the terms of his probation.