Hi all:

I've been reading and re-reading info on Plan A and am still not sure if I understand it correctly. Please, let me know what you think.

Basically, WS is having an EA on the internet and is not willing to give it up. Have been separated for a week now (not physically though, she is staying w/me and is looking for an apartment).

Here is what I am doing. I think I am doing Plan A, but I am not sure.

- ignoring the fact that she is having an EA
- actively helping her in every way possible: help her find an apartment and a job to be able to afford living on her own
- following the list of 34 things to do
- another list posted by TOOMuchCoffeeMan (let me know if you do not know what I am referring to)
- being happy, supportive, understanding, trying to fulfill her emotional needs
- not bringing up any relationship problems, not talking about future and possible reconciliation
- supporting her idea of separation by saying that yes both of us need a break to figure ourselves out

The idea is to be the best I can and help her in any way I can so that she would choose me over him.

Is this Plan A? Am I on the right track?

Like I said she is still in the house (we are roommates only. nothing intimate or anything of that nature), but will probably be moving out soon. Should I continue doing what I have been doing when she is out? Should I maintain contact? Should I switch to Plan B?

assap, Welcome to the forum. Let's talk about Plan A.

- ignoring the fact that she is having an EA

Nope...in Plan you confront the fact that she is having the A. And by confrontation I don't mean arguments, I mean you confront her with your feelings about the affair with statements like this: I feel_________when__________. I feel so unhappy when I know you've contacted this man. I feel confused about why you won't give our marriage another chance.

- actively helping her in every way possible: help her find an apartment and a job to be able to afford living on her own

NO NO NO....do NOT help your wife leave you!! Do not help her find an apartment or offer her the finances to do so.

- following the list of 34 things to do

I have no idea what this is.

- another list posted by TOOMuchCoffeeMan (let me know if you do not know what I am referring to)

I believe you are refering to Michelle Weiner Davis's 180 list....but that is not Plan A. It does however work relatively well with it, and shouldn't interfere too much with it....except in the "meeting needs" department.

- being happy, supportive, understanding, trying to fulfill her emotional needs

Are you happy? If not, don't pretend to be...it's important that she sees how you feel. Granted you can't Love Bust or mope and be depressed, but do not pretend you are happy. Do be supportive, but NOT in her efforts to tear apart your marriage. Do be understanding. She won't let you fill many needs (except the ones that allow her to leave) but do your best on that and avoid aiding her in her selfishness.

- not bringing up any relationship problems, not talking about future and possible reconciliation

Stopping R and "future" talks is good for now.

- supporting her idea of separation by saying that yes both of us need a break to figure ourselves out

Oh god no. Do you have any idea how much harder it is to do a Plan A when you live apart and the divorce is half accomplished? Please do all that you can to DELAY her leaving.

The idea is to be the best I can and help her in any way I can so that she would choose me over him.

The idea is to present an attractive alternative to the affair.....but that does NOT mean the above!

Is this Plan A? Am I on the right track?

I'm going to post cerri's guidelines....and give the suggestion to CALL her and make an appointment! You need help chere.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Plan A as Harley meant it to be...

Plan A is not (repeat NOT) about making the WS happy, or feeling good.

Plan A is NOT, contrary to popular (and very incorrect opinion), about "making yourself a better person," or "working on yourself."

Plan A is ALL ABOUT the straying spouse. In Willard Harely's ever brilliant words, Plan A is a stategy to end the affair and to entice the straying spouse to reconsider the marriage.

So, it has several elements that should be done at the same time.

First is to eliminate LBers and to meet needs as best you can... recognizing that the unfaithful mate may not allow the betrayed partner to meet needs.

Second is to CONFRONT the unfaithful partner with what you know. Doing so (of course) in a way that is respectful and about you... how you feel, how you are affected by the affair.

Third is to expose the affair to the scrutiny of the world. The lover's spouse or s/o, coworkers, family, friends, church family, children, etc.

ALL OF THAT is Plan A. And it should be done as much as possible simultaneously. (If you don't believe me call the radio show Mondays and Thursdays at 1pm Central Time and ask Dr. Harley for yourself.)

Plan A must have a deadline. It's called Plan "A" because there is a second step... aptly named Plan "B." Willard Harley suggests a max of 6 months for men and 3 months for women before going to the next step. If Plan A hasn't worked in that time, it's not going to.

(I challenge you to find anyone who has done Plan A longer than that and been successful. I define successful as the A ending, n/c promised and verified, and the couple working a good recovery plan which includes meeting needs, eliminating LBers, getting in 15 hours a week of UAT, and most importantly following POJA.)
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Plan A is not about being a nice guy. Plan A is about ending the affair.... being a nice guy is part of that, but only part. That's why confronting and exposing are crucial elements of Plan A... and if you're not doing those things then you can't really say that you're doing Plan A.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Like I said she is still in the house (we are roommates only. nothing intimate or anything of that nature), but will probably be moving out soon. Should I continue doing what I have been doing when she is out? Should I maintain contact? Should I switch to Plan B?

Have you EXPOSED this affair to your friends and family? Who knows about it? Is this man married? Does his wife know about the affair?

You are a long way from Plan B. Keep posting and we will help. Please get professional counseling. Here's cerri's site http://www.saveyourmarriagecentral.com/pages/1/index.htm

Or call the Harleys....they are both excellent.

<small>[ December 19, 2003, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: star*fish ]</small>

A big mistake is agreeing to and accepting the separation. During PLAN A, I was encouraged here on the Board to continue sleeping with my FWH. Getting back into the bed with him was an important step in my PLAN A. Affection and SF are important ENs which need filling. Plan A involves meeting ENs of the WS. Also, the point of her getting the apartment is probably to become physical with the OM. You don't want to enable this.

What everyone is telling you about plan A is correct.
You kinda misunderstood and thought you should help 'push' her out the door to pursue her selfish wants! No no!

You wrote:(We are roommates only, nothing intimate or anything of that nature)

Now is NOT the time to show lack of sexual desire for your wife.

The OM is not only listening to her every word but he is exploring every square inch of her body!

If you want to be her lover, follow your heart, not something you read.

How about giving her a little oral sex after her bath tonight? If you have a deep love for her; SHOW HER. Don't just be her 'brother'.

It took my husband's affair to wake up my own sexuality.
Sincerely, JJ (Julie Jo)

Hi:

thanks for all your posts. I am misunderstanding the whole concept.

See, i've tried everything that is described in the posts. I've talked to her, explained how I feel about it, etc. I have exposed it to her family (even though we agreed not to. her grandmother has contacted her today and said she was mad at her and wanted to talk to her in private. That's is going to happen today. how do i react whem my WS is pissed off at me for breaking the agreement we had).

We have already agreed that she was going to move out. After the initial blow out and overnight separation, I was pissed as hell. A couple of days later I cooled down and went and talked to her. She was still saying "I need some time to figure myself out". So, I said, "you know I think it is a good idea. I don't think we are ready to reconcile right now". It was hard to say, but I did say it.

No I am not happy, but every time I am not pretending to be happy she just goes into "feeling guilty and down about everything mode" and wants to escape even more.

Sex is out of the question. She flat out refuses to sleep in the same bed with me, does not even change her clothes in front of me, does not touch, etc. She is sleeping on the couch out in the living room.

PLEASE HELP. I do not know how to talk to her or even what to talk about. The only thing I can do is say, separate, take your time, but i am going to make myself happy and move on with my life for myself and the beautiful baby we've created. I know I will not separate her from her lover (it's only an EA over the Internet. He is in London, we are in Alaska, USA) until the EA runs its course.

Thank you so much.

assap,

Did you read the stuff I left for you? Do you have some specific questions?

There is really nothing you can do about her anger at exposure....except know that you have done the right thing, and give it time to pass. It will.

yeah, i read it. it does make sense and i understand it. the only thing i disagreed with is about not helping her and supporting her to separate. She's got her mind set in concrete and will move-out. The only thing I can do is support her and make her see that I care about her and hopefully turn her around that way eventually. I am not going to try and talk to her about staying, reason, explain, plead, beg, etc. (that's one of the things in the 34 things to do list). One other option I have, which I have been implementing is reverse psychology. And I think that also reflects on me being supportive of her decisions. I simply told her that yes, honey, we do need some time along to figure things out.

I am not sure if there is a way to make her stay other than talking to her about it. And I think that if I do talk to her about it, she will resend me even more because I will be going against her wishes/desires/decisions. I FEEL THAT THE SAME THING APPLIES TO HER EA. if i tell her that I am feeling unhappy because of what she did she'll think i am trying to guilt her into coming back... if i say i do not understand why she won't give our marriage another chance, 1) it will be a lie and 2) she's going to to explain it to me and i do not want to hear it... that's going to make me go into an unsecure place again and i don't want it

About the happiness thing, again back to being supportive and understanding. if i am acting unhappy, she is going to think i am trying to guilt her into staying as well. and no, by being happy i am looking for her meeting my ENs I know that's not going to happen any time soon.

I would try to delay her stay, but do not know how. the only thing I can do is not give her money and wait until she either gets a job and gets enough money together or borrows some from somebody. i am not going to give her money, because i need it for me and the baby, the rest is in her hands. i cannot control it.

I am starting to think that maybe she does need to separate. She is young and has never been out on her own and does not know what it's like. Maybe, she does need to get out there, get in a lot of trouble financially, etc., hit the bottom and hit it hard before she realizes that she had made a mistake. Don't know...

Everything else made perfect sense in your post

that's one of the things in the 34 things to do list
What is a "34 things to do" list?

Star*fish and Chris ,
I think the "List of 34 Things To Do" which assap6 mentioned is a reference to TMCM's signature line link, where he lists 34 things in Michelle Weiner Davis's Divorce Busting 180 Degree book.

That is the list. It is a link on TMCM's page.

I would love to be affectionate w/her but 1) she is not going to go for it and 2) I already agreed to separate. How will me changing my mind and trying to sleep w/her will affect the situation? We've been good friends for the last couple of days (I am meeting her ENs but she is not, which means I was being her good friend and not getting anything back) I am afraid that if I try to reverse and be affectionate again, we'll just end up in a situation that is worse than what we have now.

The only way she can get physical with him is if she goes to London or he comes here (we are in Alaska).

Basically, what I am trying to say is that I would love for everything to come back to the point where she is at least not moving out. But i do not think it is possible. The only thing I can do is to fulfil her ENs enough before she moves out so that she decides to "hang around and see what happens".

Any advise? How do I keep her?

The idea is to be the best I can and help her in any way I can so that she would choose me over him.
No, that is incorrect. You learn good relationship habits so when it with him, she comes back to you. That is different than choosing you over him.

I would love to be affectionate w/her
Where did you get that you should try to be affectionate with her? Simply try to meet her needs as best you can. If it bothers her, then don’t do it.

1) she is not going to go for it
Then don’t do it.

2) I already agreed to separate.
Okay. So just tell her you do not think it‘s a good idea and it is not something you want.

How will me changing my mind and trying to sleep w/her will affect the situation?
Lor didn’t say you should try to sleep with her. That is what worked for her. You should try to meet your wifes emotional needs. That doesn’t mean she will let you though.

I am meeting her ENs but she is not, which means I was being her good friend and not getting anything back
Okay, NOT getting your needs met is something you will have to put up with for a while.

Basically, what I am trying to say is that I would love for everything to come back to the point where she is at least not moving out.
Then do what you can to not be a pain to her.

But i do not think it is possible.
It is very possible.

The only thing I can do is to fulfil her ENs enough before she moves out so that she decides to "hang around and see what happens".
That is exactly what you should try to do. But don’t smother her and don’t keep bothering her to "repair" the marriage.

How do I keep her?
The whole idea of Plan A is for you to be "safe" for her. You must eliminate all lovebusters. This is so when she decides the other guy isn’t worth it, she will want to stay with you.

Tell her that you have thought a great deal about the relationship and have changed your mind and don't want her to leave. Don't make it easy for her to leave. Forget about what you told her a couple of days ago and simply say that you changed your mind. Everybody has the right to change their mind.

The list of 34 things to do? Did you pull that from the 180 degree list?

Beau