MMMMM novice here but willing to throw in a few of my cents......
As I was reading this my ws called to tell me about his IC session. One thing discussed was things that drive WS crazy. One thing my attractivness. My weight makes it difficult for WS to feel physical towards me. I'm forty lbs above our wedding weight 17 years ago and realize now that I put it on for not having my EN met. Anyway WS told IC today that recently he has begun to be attracted to my face, my smile and my eyes. Something he can't remember ever feeling. So yes the impossible as you say can happen.

When this began my WS couldn't ever remember feeling love for me and could not remember what it was that made him choose me. He was "never in love" with me.
As he began to let go of OW he very slowly started to remember my figure of our early years and remembered why he fell in "lust" with me at first glance. Thats what he wanted now, didn't even think of the other EN that he wanted, if I could be double digit weight again everything would be better. What he didn't realize was I started gaining weight about five years after we were married, I was lonely and passive and unfulfilled, I was much heavier during the middle years then I am now and those are the ones he remembers with affection now.

My point being there are stages that you go through and right now you can justify OW by having these things against your wife. A person's attractiveness is built on their wholeness not on one part. As you yourself said that you met your wife coming out of a relationship with a beautiful woman with no brains.
Your wife fulfilled something in you that you desperately needed and that is what you still need. You never married before her although you yourself said you dated alot, there was a reason why. You have stayed with her for many years there is a reason why. Nothing was more painful then my WS saying he never loved me, but it was not true, he had just forgotten. And unfortunetly he has still forgotten alot, but fortunetly he is willing to work through the process and find out. ARE YOU!!
As several people told my WS when he was in the same spot as you and trying to find ways out or reasons to stay in, they told him you gotten jump into the deep end blind folded. There are no guarantee's but you will come out better for it. I dare you whats it going to hurt, what do you have to lose. In the end at least you can say you tried. But you have to REALLY TRY and not give it lip service.
km4
me 39
ws 44
married 17 years
2 boys 11 and 4
ow was my best friend.

CF,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My wife and I have gone months and months and months at a time with no sex....not good. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you gone months and months with no sex because that is her idea or because you don't physically want to be with her?

My WH and I went through years of a gradual decline in our sex life until after waiting three months, we finally had sex, I found out a few weeks later that he had been having an A for about 5 weeks. I had never turned him down in 20 years together. In the end, I feel the lack of sex weakened our marriage almost to the point of no return. My self-esteem and my whole foundation was shattered. For the last year, we have made a point of having a very active sex life. It brings us closer and helps us connect on a more emotional level.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> OW is a part of the problem now - she is very, very attractive. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How attractive can she be? Do you find someone that is willing to hurt someone's wife and children attractive? Is she really so attractive on the inside? As you know, we all get older and our looks change. The cheerleaders and the pretty girls I went to school with are now in their early 40's and are no more attractive than anyone else now. Some are rather homely now. The beautiful women are the one's that shine from the inside. Your wife sounds like a beautiful person on the inside. She can always put on make up, dye her hair, changer her style of dress, to make herself better looking on the outside. Haven't you watched that show Extreme Makeover? But if someone is ugly on the inside, nothing is going to help.

You thought she was attractive enough to have children with. Are you saying your children aren't beautiful? Do they look like their mother? I bet she is much more attractive than you give her credit for. I bet some man out there would love to have a woman with all of her good qualities. You probably would want her then.

CF

I know how you feel when you say you were never really physically attracted to your wife. I'm in exactly the same boat. It's not that I think she's homely or whatever, she's just not what I considered "My body type" and overall her looks are very "average". I remember just before my marriage (and I mean outside the chapel) these thoughts kept coming and I was thinking "I hope this never becomes an issue". I was truly afraid that I'd lose love over her looks. But I knew then as well as now that, I didn't fall in love with her looks. Her attitude captured my heart in the first 10 minutes I ever talked to her. (I'd seen her at social gatherings regularly for awhile, never did I have one ounce of interest in her before the first time I talked to her at length).

My wife is what you would call "petite" I guess. For most of the time I've known her, I she's weighed about 105 dripping wet. Due to some meds she's been on the last couple years, she's shot up to probably 140 and while it's been a big drag to her... I've been dancing with glee. But, it doesn't matter, she is who she is.

I would have guessed you had an OW clouding your judgement (before I read on in this thread). You can find your wife attractive. She may need to do something, or change something about herself... and it doesn't have to be all "appearance" based. But, as long as you have OW thoughts in your head, it's going to be a much steeper uphill battle.

M.

Confused Father,

There's been a lot of good/insightful things said to you here and I'm not sure I can add anything. I do agree with alot that has been said to you, and tend to agree that this has much to do with your affair and also goes beyond your affair.

One mark of maturity in an adult person is that they are realistic about life, people, etc. In other words, they understand that people change, that the models are airbrushed, that many "average" people are very desirable mates becuase of various attributes, that marriage is a commitment, that beauty fades, etc.

Your OW could get in a car accident tomorrow and have her face badly and body badly, grotesquely, and severely burnded. She would no longer be outwardly beautiful. A committed man, who once was enthralled by her beauty, would look beyond and would love her as he always did. A man who placed a high value on appearance would probably divorce her. He'd be embarrassed and repulsed by her. He'd have an inner pride issue saying, "you deserve a beautiful wife."

Outward beauty fades. Your OW will one day be old and wrinkly.

I, too, find it hard to believe that you had no physical attraction to your wife when you married her and have asked a few times, "Why did he marry her?" and then have thought, "poor woman." I feel very bad for her. I believe you mentioned your affair has been for the past 11 years. That is a very, very long time to be betraying and deceiving your wife. It's wrong.

And even if your OW has a beautiful face... what kind of character does she have if she's willing to have an affair with a married man for eleven years!!??

It also sounds like, if it were up to you, you'd still be with her. You said it is her who has decided to move on, and you have expressed sadness about it.

You need to tell your wife about your affair to begin with. As for telling her you think she's ugly, etc... I wouldn't do that if you care about her at all. That could haunt her the rest of her life because you've already explained that it's her features you find unattractive, and she can't change that.

You did have a recent last post in which you seem to be recognizing the qualities of your wife and in which you seemed sad over your actions. You said, "She told me last night that she sometimes hates the things I do, that she sometimes thinks of all the ways in which she could get back at me and the OW, that she sometimes hates herself for putting up with all this, but that, in the end, she does not want me to leave. I hardly understand that - I am not THAT wonderful!"

Oh, I didn't realize she knew about the affair.

And, no, you are not THAT wonderful. None of us are. And I'm amazed that she has not left you. I am a Christian woman, very much against divorce, but had my husband had an ongoing affair like that (he didn't), I would have separated from him. And believe me, I am very, very much one who encourages reconciliation, forgiveness, etc... but for one thing, I'd be scared to death that he'd give me a disease! That alone would cause me to separate.

You also said, "And yes, OW is a part of the problem now - she is very, very attractive."

OW has been part of the problem since the very FIRST time you began an affair with her... since the first time you fooled around with the idea of having sex with her or being with her. From the first time you betrayed your wife by allowing another woman into your heart even though you are a married man. She is not part of the problem NOW, she has been a big part of the problem since the very beginning of the affair (11 yrs. ago).

Also, about her attractiveness. You seem to be caught up in that. It's similar to money. Some people will destroy their lives in the pursuit of money... or power... or beauty. All the things that somehow falsely advertise to us that if we have money, power, or beauty... we have life in the palm of our hands.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I recognize that, but truly, she wasn't a part of the problem 18 years ago.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She wasn't part of the problem 18 years ago because you weren't having an affair with her then.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my difficulties are long standing, exacerbated now by the OW, yes, but still, longstanding. Like your husband, I have "freakin' issues...." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We all have "issues." <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Seriously, every person has one issue or another. But, yes, I do think you have some unrealistic expectations of life. I think you have a lack of commitment to your marriage and family. I think you idolize beauty and beautiful woman and have fallen into the lie that outward beauty is more important than inner beauty. It's something that many high schoolers (like you mentioned you did) fall into, but eventaully grow out of as they realize, like one man said, that "hot babes" become soccer moms because that is just the reality of life. People age, they get sick, they are REAL!

It is your life and your choices, so no one here can tell you what to do. I think you are cheating not only your wife out of the joy of a loving marriage, but you are also cheating yourself out of it. I believe that if you got the OW completely out of the picture, if you "grew up" and understood that beauty goes FAR BEYOND appearance, if you did as others suggested and date your wife, dwell upon your wife, get to know your wife again... I think she will become beautiful in your eyes.

Your unhappiness is your own choice. There are some people who will never be happy until they make a choice to be so. You seem to be grasping at things/false ideas (beauty, other woman) to make you happy, just like you did in h.s. when you dated only beautiful girls and found self-worth in that.

You said you made one of the greatest mistakes of your wife marrying your wife. And why? Well, from what we see here... because she's not attractive. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> So, in other words, had you married a beautiful woman, you'd be better off.

Do you love your children? Had you not married your wife, they would not be in existence. Are you sure she is a mistake?

I would tend to believe that she might be the one who has more reason to say she made a "mistake" marrying a man who said he loved her, but in reality found her to be unattractive. She could've married another man who found her attractive and who would've been a faithful spouse to her.

I realize your problems aren't easily solved and I've said some various, random things here. And I'm not sure we know all the story. How could we? We don't know you and the story of your past 18 years of marriage. So, I can only counsel from what you've shared and I apologize if somehow it has been based on misunderstanding.

P.S.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Over the years, that lack of burning desire for her has bothered me more and more.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The idea that marriage is full of "burning desire" is one of those unrealistic beliefs. You aren't always going to feel "burning desire" for your spouse. Life is real. Romance has its place and time, but you can't live off of romance or "burning desire" and passion. Also, you can feel "burning desire" for a person who is not your physcial "ideal" or not some beauty queen. Many, many "average" people have "burning desire" for each other!

In fact, this just came to mind. I remember reading before that "average" people tend to have happier marriages than "beautiful" people. Don't ask me where or how it was worded! Sounds kinda strange. But I remember reading how "average" people have more realistic views and are more accepting. They also have a better view of themselves because they have learned to put their worth in their skills, personalities, etc. not something like their outward appearance which changes (and is WAY too stressful to try to always look gorgeous!).

If you look at divorce rates among the "rich and beautiful" or look at their dating patterns, you can see that being beautiful doesn't give one a great relationship, but many people continue to believe it and they just keep trying to find that ideal that will give them what they are looking for.

I think it would help you alot if you could gain a realistic view on marriage and life. AND get rid of the OW. You don't live with her, so sure, she's gonna look really great. Your relationship with her is not a realistic one. Believe me, if you married her, and the realities of life set in, her pretty face wouldn't be such a big deal as it is now.

Also, you can be grateful that you have a faithful spouse. Amazing that you do, to be honest. You told her before you married her that you weren't attracted to her, you've had an affair for more than half your marriage... and yet, she married you and stayed. She is either very faithful, or in denial.