You said don't tell him. I found out he must be calling her from my mothers and then he called his cell phone # to get the redial off my mothers phone. His cell phone had my mothers # on it as a received call, no one is in my mothers house and he said he went there today to check her filters. But what other explanation can there be for calling his own cell phone from my mothers phone............ SHOULD I CONFRONT HIM on this one???????????? Yes, my blood is boiling. How can you say ignore it, that yes he probably did call her. What good will it do not confronting him. I can't possibly think what the explanation will be.....

What good will it do confronting him?

You have the information, whether he knows it or not. But what will you get by confronting him with it?

More lies, that you can then throw back in his face? Or honesty, and the pain of knowing the whole truth?

Believe me, I have been HORRIBLE at letting things like this go. It's the main reason why things went from bad to miserable in the month between my 1st D-Day and our Separation. If I would have posted here in October when I registered, maybe folks here would have helped me to NOT confront my wife, with all of the yelling and judging and demanding and name-calling and everything else that went along with it.

You know the truth. That's all that matters right now. There is nothing good that can come from confronting him with it. You won't feel any better, and will probably feel worse, and I guarantee that he won't like you any more for it.

It sounds like you want to use these things as weapons, in the hopes of hurting him back, or in the hopes of staying angry and being able to justify your anger with these facts.

Trust me, I've done that A LOT myself, and it gets you nowhere fast.

<small>[ December 26, 2003, 05:52 PM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

You said don't tell him.
Uh, I did? Don't tell him what?

I found out he must be calling her from my mothers and then he called his cell phone # to get the redial off my mothers phone
??
So?

How can you say ignore it, that yes he probably did call her.
So what if he did? He won't apologize and/or he will lie about it and you won't belive him.

What good will it do not confronting him.
You have contfronted him previously and it does nothing.

I can't possibly think what the explanation will be.....
Why does it matter what the explanation will be?

After much thought last night I did tell him about the number on his cell phone. Actually, I asked him why he called his own phone # when he was down my mom's house. He said when he couldn't find the furnace filters he called my son's cell phone to check if her knew where they were, and by MISTAKE dialed his own phone #. He always has an answer though. But its hard to swallow that he didn't even go into her garage and they would have bit him sitting there right next to the furnace. It seems like I am missing the boat on what you are saying. The way I am understanding what I am reading is that I am supposed to try to make him want ME more than the O/W, and that means even if he still is seeing the O/W, let it ride and try to make him happy that he came back to me and eventually this O/W should be out of the picture. But what happened to the TOTAL HONESTY aspect of the scenario. The more I read , the more confused I get as to what I should be doing. I cannot let something just ride if something is bothering me. I have to approach him and ask him about it. Not in a mad way, just to reassure myself that I am wrong. But the answers I get are not convincing. I think the most bothersome thing is last week when she approached him and called here and his old phone #, he didn't tell me about it and and when I told him I knew he just talked to her 4 min. ago and I asked him to write a letter to her so that she would have it in writing that we are getting back together to leave us alone, he said no to doing that. So all these classes with the counselor are not working....He did not do what he was supposed to do to even protect my feelings. He seems to be worried more about protecting her than me at this point. Is that the normal tendency???

Read my response on your other thread

You know its funny that you said in the previous post that he doesn't care if I live or die, he did say in conversation we were having, I don't know what about, that if someone died in front of him it wouldn't bother him, then I asked about his mother dying, he said I don't seem to even care if I go up to see HER right now, and then I said, what if I died now, he said " 5 years ago it would have bothered me more than it would bother me now." I found that very depressing, and even more depressing 2 weeks ago when I went into the hospital and thought, oh my goodness, if my fate is in his hands what will he do.....Actually, I still don't know if I am going to designate him as the person to decide my fate in time of crisis. He would zap me more sure I think. Scary. But if it only pertained to me I would say it was marital, but I really think he is DEPRESSED.......No, I don't feel superior to him, or I should say in what way do you mean superior?? I don't know what I am getting out of this crisis with him being less tahn honorable. I am getting upset that he is not showing feelings for me, as you say. He keeps saying he is NOT doing anything and that her stopping by was her doing and he feels it will be the last of her. He says if she does it again he will write the letter. To me he should write it now, but what can I do. NO- NO- NO- I am NOT prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice, if you mean giving him up or sending him out. I did that and I was miserable. That is my problem. I don't have the guts to think more of myself and my health. He keeps telling me to think of myself. Maybe he is looking for an out. Maybe he wants me to throw him out again. He said I make MY MIND play tricks on me. That I'm looking for things that he might be doing. And he says he is not doing anything. He said he is tired of having to check in once in awhile or call me when he is on his way home. He said he forgets..... I say to him,"this is my way of getting more secure with you and your not giving it your all." And No I don't like risking my health for this, but your right, I am risking it right now because I really get hyper when a questionable event occurs. I have not yet learned to CONTROL my emotions to a level that will be suitable for my health. Oh well, thanks for listening to me vent. It's even upsetting my mom who is with us since May on Hospice, that I get so uptight always around supper when he comes in. I spoil her supper too when I get this way. I think next time I'll just go to my room until I calm down or right to someone here to vent. I'm hurting her, he's hurting me, she can't go on her own. What a mess......Sometimes I think I should move out or away, but that would be like running from the situation. But I think I would enjoy the rest for awhile. I really was calm in the hospital not facing reality of this home life situation. But its always a temporary fix...

Ultimate Sacrifice is referred to in war as our soldiers give up their lives for the cause of freedom.

In your case, the ultimate sacrifice is to die to force him to give a d*** about you. That is what you seem to be prepared to do as your blood pressure continues to skyrocket with each new betrayal.

Stop looking to him for validation of your worth. May I gently tap you with the MB 2x4 that this is not his responsibility? It is YOURS. You need to value you enough to leave the soap opera with its cast of characters. It reads like a script. You notice there aren't many old actors on those shows? It's not just because that is what draws an audience. But it's also because those who live real life soap operas don't live very long either!

Do what you need to in order to ignore his disrespectful behavior and start taking care of yourself!

It seems like I am missing the boat on what you are saying.
Yes, it does.

The way I am understanding what I am reading is that I am supposed to try to make him want ME more than the O/W
No. No one has written that.

and that means even if he still is seeing the O/W, let it ride and try to make him happy that he came back to me
No. You need to stop worrying about what he does. You need to learn to control your own feelings and emotions. You need to STOP reacting to what he does.

But what happened to the TOTAL HONESTY aspect of the scenario.
First off, you haven’t been totally honest with him and he hasn’t been totally honest with you.
Second, this is what a marriage should be. With an ongoing affair as in your situation, then you can expect totally honest to not exist.

The more I read, the more confused I get as to what I should be doing.
You NEED to get & read the book, "Surviving An Affair" by Willard Harley.

I cannot let something just ride if something is bothering me.
Sure you can. But you choose NOT to.

I have to approach him and ask him about it. Not in a mad way, just to reassure myself that I am wrong. But the answers I get are not convincing.
Then why do you ask him about it? It won’t give you nay answers you are satisfied with.

So all these classes with the counselor are not working....He did not do what he was supposed to do to even protect my feelings.
He chooses to ignore them because he is having an affair.

He seems to be worried more about protecting her than me at this point.
So what? This is not something you should be concerned about at this time. You need to be concerned about yourself and your actions.

Is that the normal tendency???
Yes. And the more you bother him about it, the more he leans to her.

You are so concerned about the big picture you cannot take care of the little things.
Take it one step at a time.
Don’t worry what he does or thinks or feels.
Just stop the LoveBusters.

<small>[ December 28, 2003, 08:49 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Again last night I went to cards and he called my daughter on our regular phone. He always uses the cell phone to call her but he called her on the regular phone again and then he let my mother talk to her. I called her back and asked her how long they talked. She said about 10 min. 27 min. was used last night, so that was the longest one so far. Sunday for our ride he was really out of it saying how unhappy he was now even though he says he is trying. I just say to him, it is going to take time to heal and bring a normal life back to us. Right now I tell him we are in the healing stage and will have ups and downs. I don't know what to say to him anymore. He did have an episode with my son though on Sunday. My son told him to send her a certified letter to stop calling and following him. I had said about sending a letter to her to seal the deal and now my son said to him that she is stalking him and this would get her to stop. Of course, my husband said to him " she's not a stalker." I said to my son, what did he expect him to say, he's been sticking up for her all along , why change now. He keeps saying to me he's not happy. I just say again, it will take time. He seems ready to throw in the towel and go on his own. But my thinking is that he will never make progress if he is still calling her and seeing her. He keeps saying he is NOT calling her or seeing her so I have go on from there but how can I make headway with him if he is still seeing and calling her?????? He says he is happy when he is alone, right now everything I say to him he practically jumps down my throat. He doesn't seem to like anything about me anymore. I asked him what he DOES like about me. He says "I'm a good hearted person." I really don't think he loves me anymore since this woman came into the picutre. I even made him read that scenario with the Mercedes vs. the Mustand on pg. 181 of Torn Asunder. I asked if he could relate to that in what has happened to us, he said yes. So I said to him, all that is happening now in our recovery process is normal for the healing, but he was very serious yesterday in saying he is UNHAPPY now. And he says he knows he is making me unhappy by not doing things to improve our relationship now. He really sounds like he is going to go out or ask to seperate for awhile. I really don't think that is the answer, but what can I say to someone who is saying he is very unhappy now????????? And possible knowing he is still conversing with the O/W. (But, I might be wrong.)

lefty,

You can't make him stop seeing her.

You probably will never forget about her.

Give up on those two and DO SOMETHING for yourself. You are asking for advice and it seems you aren't doing a thing differently than before, so why ask for advice?

This website outlines the MB principles very well. Try and follow them. Get the books, GET SOME COUNSELING FOR YOU!

I am sorry if this is harsh, but I see the hurt you are living with. Don't choose to keep hurting forever.

Do one thing differently today.

Hmmm?
You can't control him and you tell us he does nothing you ask.
We tell you to stop trying to control him.
You try to control and can't figure out why he won't listen to you.

Read "Surviving An Affair".
I don't know how many times I have suggested this.

You do the same old thing over & over & over and expecting something different to happen.
It won't.
YOU have to do something different.
Good luck lefty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

<small>[ December 30, 2003, 01:49 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Lefty,

First understand I am a junior member and haven't gained some of the wisdom others on this site have. However, I do have a couple of comments.

1) It concerns me for your children that they appear to be in the middle of this...Regardless of what is happening right now in your life... YOU ARE THE PARENT and your children (I don't care what the age)are your children...They deserve unconditional love and support from you and you shouldn't lean on them too heavily for support (and not at all in my opinion depending on the age). I am sure this is very hard on them too. But you are giving them a double whammy.. A father who is clearly behaving without consideration or thought for his family and a mother who is not setting an example of how Adults can manage through crisis and come out ahead. You also don't appear to be nuturing your children.. they may need you more than you know.
2) I too have had health problems because of this crisis in my life.. However, I am taking blood pressure meds, anti depressants and when necessary additonal medication to help sleep, eat or get through the day and I try to exercise. I assume your physicians have taken these steps.. however, if not, run to Dr. and ask for some help to calm you down.
3) Accept your husband is continuing to have an affair. My husband and I are not living together (4 mo. seperated) and basically have very little communication... he has lied to me repeatedly over the last 8 months since D-Day. I assume like many on this site, I first thought 1) not my spouse and 2)then my spouse wouldn't continue being dishonest. But he has. Also like many on this site, I assumed up until this happend I had a good marriages. My husband was loving supportive affectionate... NO-ONE, not my family, his family,friends etc. thougth he was capable of this type of behavior... but he was and is...Like you I don't want to see the signs, I don't want to believe he is lying...but reality is reality.

I am stumbling through this horrible experience myself and I know it hurts beyond belief. Nevetheless, if you look around, I am sure you can count many blessings in your life. (i.e. For me my blessing are...I am Alive..I have a wonderful child, good job, nice house, food on the table every night, etc.)

You have my best wishes that you move beyond where you are...

I.e. If I have offered less than sound advice..please let me know, I am learning how to deal with this myself and understand I do not have all (or any) answers... SF

Yes, I don't like involving my children, ages 32 son, 29 daughter, but this affects the whole family and sometimes things are necessary. My husband is involving my daughter, giving her checks to cash when she works with him ( he never tells me about it ). Also , when I play cards, he calls ones of them on the phone card, that way, he can call the O/W and I should never be able to tell. But I call and find out how many minutes they spoke and sort of can tell the excess minutes left. Yesterday seemed to be the longest, 25 min., I didn't call my son to see how long he spoke to him. So, yes, I know this is wrong, but I must know whether I am still being lied to. Dr. Harley's way is TOTAL HONESTY, and I have to set my mind to knowing that I AM NOT getting it, so that is why, HE is not getting on with this recovery. He keeps saying, he is not happy anymore. He says he is tired of discussing these things for recovery and arguing, If all this counseling is happening and he still is talking to her and seeing her, we will never recover. I totally believe he is still talking to her. This must end before recovery begins, am I not correct in this aspect??????????????

Lefty,

I am very curious about something: why are you not responding to Chris's posts to you?

Chris has been here just about forever <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> and brings some of the best advice you will find on this board.

Listen to what he has to say. Respond to him and take his advice to heart. Then take the appropriate action.

If you want to just vent, so be it, but if you truly want advice (per the title of this thread), then accept and be grateful for the good stuff coming your way.

*S*

but I must know whether I am still being lied to.
I don't understand this. You KNOW you are not being told the truth. Why the need to torture yourself?

Dr. Harley's way is TOTAL HONESTY,
Your h doesn't follow Dr. Harley or MB principles but YOU do and you aren't being totally honest with your h, so what's your point?

and I have to set my mind to knowing that I AM NOT getting it, so that is why, HE is not getting on with this recovery.
Regardless of ANYTHING your h is doing or has done, your actions and attitude are why YOU are not getting into recovery.

This has almost nothing to do with him anymore.
It has almost everything to do with you and you alone.

You have to be familiar with Marriage Builder principles in order to use them.
From the forum entry page
We recommend that all participants of the discussion forum be familiar with Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts.

You need to understand a something about affairs so you NEED read the book, "Surviving An Affair" by Willard Harley.

<small>[ December 31, 2003, 06:24 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

I see ya’ peeking in here lefty. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />
Comments? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ December 31, 2003, 06:30 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

she's not listening to you, chris. you don't validate her.

lefty,

first I'd like to wish you a Happy New Year! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I've been following your thread all along and I'd just like to add my thoughts.

Lefty, please read what Chris is writting.
Even if it might not be what you would like to read, take your time and read it throughly.

There is absoloutely no "quick fix" for your situation and if you follow what Chris is expressing, you will for sure be getting different reactions from your husband.

I know that you are experiencing a very difficult time of your life and yet aou are "lucky" getting this kind of guidance and advice.

take care
bb

Well, this week will tell whether he stays or not. Today he said he wanted out, he is sick of having to always have me question him about things. He even said he tunes the counselor out because some things are just repeated over and over. I told him it is still early in our recovery and he has not given it enough time. But he seems to want out. He said he doesn't feel anything anymore for me or anyone and he knows it hurts me. He doesn't want to talk about anything anymore. I told him to think about it and he is still here, if you can call it that. He fell asleep on the lounge for 2 hrs., took the dog out, got in the bed. I asked " are you all right?" He said "yes, give me a kiss goodnight." And that was it. Here I am left in limbo again.. Ya know, maybe I should just say go. I was surprised to feel a tiny sense of relief when he said he wanted out. I say myself finding someone compatable and enjoying life for a change, so maybe I should just let him go and do whatever. We are no good this way, and if he doesn't want to even listen to a counselor, it will never work. I still say he is seeing the O/W yet. But he will never admit that to me. Maybe a pushed him away. Maybe I really don't want him. I know I'm not happy either . We would have had to make alot of changes in our marriage for us to be compatable and I really don't think he would have wanted to change his ways and my ways to make our marriage happier. I means working at it and he just doesn't seem to want to do that. I will keep you in tuned to the future. I am upset, but not as upset as I thought I would be......I guess when someone says they don't love you again after a 2nd time and that they still would lie to you, you sort of get the hint.........

He told me today when he comes home he will stay or go. This morning we went out to breakfast and I was trying to say to give this more time and he just can't tolerate talking about it or anything re. recovery. He didn't even finish his breakfast. So I am sure when he comes home he will leave. I am a wreck. I don't want him to leave, but we can't live like this, no talking and discussing the problems. He just wants to be alone he said. He is happier alone. So maybe its best that he go. Is there anything you would recommend me saying to him if he says he is leaving??????????...... I know I will be a basket case, but I don't want him staying with me out of pity. And how do I get the strength to get through this day.........