UN, you really are doing well at this, I think. Having said that, you never answered about your Plan B plans. If that's stuff you don't want to discuss on here, that's absolutely fine with me. But don't forget to keep thinking about it, keep planning for it, and keep trying to anticipate weird-[censored] stuff from the other side when you implement it!

Thanks. It's not that I don't want to discuss it here, I think I'm just too chicken to even plan for the plan, let alone actually do it. Yet here I was just about ready to file for Divorce a few days ago.

I haven't really figured it out though. It'd be a pretty easy transition to Plan B, seeing as how we've had very little contact in the past 4 weeks, and a lot less as more time passes. So it seems like it'd just be a matter of drafting a letter that, in a caring way, pretty much says that I don't want to deal with her anymore unless and until she's ready to give up the OM, and that until then, to just leave me alone. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> I know, not like that, but just the essence of the letter.

The only change that would really create is, well, stopping the one email she's sent me each week to let me know how much cash she'll be taking out of our account for that week. I haven't even initiated any contact with her in the past two weeks, ever since I took the kids to see a movie on the 13th. I've only responded to her contact, and asked a question or two of my own when doing so.

I guess it would put in writing exactly what I'm doing and why though, and demonstrate just how serious I am about moving on without her. And I guess that, whether she'd really even care or not isn't the point. It'd just allow me to take a firm stand and really set my boundaries in stone, so to speak.

Hmmm...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Uncomfortably Numb:
I think I see what I'm stuck on. I just cannot wrap my mind around the thought process of the WS.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and you never will. there's too much that's swriling around in their heads ... it just comes out as gibberish. frankly, they don't understand it, either.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So I agree that she probably doesn't have the same feelings that I do, and I agree that it looks like that she doesn't want to talk about it, or even deal with it for that matter. I just don't understand why?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">don't even try to undrestand. just accept that it is and do the best plan A you can. when you try and figure it out, you drive yourself nuts. it's hard when you're a man (not that this is easy when you're a woman). as mb'er toomuchcoffeeman once said, "men don't have issues. we have problems to solve." we see this great big problem and we rush in to find solutions. don't. embrace 180. do the opposite of what you would do normally.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If she feels like she doesn't want to be with me anymore, like she'd be better off emotionally without me, like she'd be better of financially without me (she'd get to keep her full paychecks, instead of letting me have more than half to help pay our bills), then why in the world would she want to drag this out any longer than she has to?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">because that's what waywards do. they want everyone to accept responsibility ... everyone, that it, execpt for themselves. and why not? they sit on the fence between two people who meet all of their needs and then some. what's the hurry in divorcing a spouse? there isn't any.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If she feels like she got such a better life waiting for her without me, why would she avoid moving on?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">see above.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can see some of the answers, from reading many different sources. It's just that I cannot comprehend the thought process that one would go through to arrive at these decisions. It's just completely foreign to me. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">actually, it's not foreign. it's alien.

you're doing well, my friend. keep at it.

"We don't have issues, we have problems to solve."

Truer words were never spoken about me. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

And this is where I've screwed up so many times...where I can give advice to others on how to handle it...yet my blood boils so intensely that I just want to explode!

So our cell phone bill finally became available online. It's for the period ending last Sunday, and the new one began on Monday (and she had already logged 550 minutes this period as of this morning, in all of FOUR DAYS!) I had been holding out hope that it had been our teenage daughter who was using it while my wife was tying up the phone line on the Internet, but there's not a single call to any numbers of her friends.

Well, there's 8 phone calls in there to the same city he lives in, totaling almost 200 minutes, or about 80% of the time her phone was used for that period. So I'm willing to bet that just about all of the 550 minutes she's already put in this period are to him as well.

I just want to explode! And I don't know what ticks me off more...

1) The fact that she's calling him so much.
2) The fact that I'm helping to pay for her to be able to call him so much.
3) The fact that she knows that I'll find out about this as soon as the bill is available, and really doesn't care enough about anything to even pretend to try and hide it! And yes, I know that she's aware of my ability to check it, because that's how we monitored the account we used to have for the teenager after she ran up her bill well over $300 for the third time.

I don't even know what to think now. I can't even begin to concentrate on anything good. She did call me this evening and we made plans for her to come over tomorrow at about noon for us to talk. But I don't know if I can be civil now. I know, so many of you have dealt with so much worse, which makes me feel guilty for even getting this upset.

Right now, I just want to call the cellular company and disable that phone effective immediately. I just don't see how I can handle supporting and financing her stinking affair!

Happy friggin holidays...whee... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

"Honey, I noticed that the cell phone has maxed out it's allowed minutes for the month. These are my choices. I have to either disconnect the cell phone entirely, or let you transfer it entirely into your name because I won't be able to make the payments."

No blame. No accusations. JUST THE FACTS.

editted to add:

I don't want to leave you stranded without some access to a telephone, so I wanted to give you the choice rather than just shut it off in a panic.

<small>[ December 26, 2003, 08:40 PM: Message edited by: KaylaAndy ]</small>

Stop paying that bill. Inform her that you will not pay it anymore. It is hurting you too much keeping tabs on how much time she spends on the phone to OM...it is eating you up and you know it. And I am sure she resents your knowing 'her business' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> .

I suggest you put it to her logically that since you do not use the phone that she needs to pay for it herself. And if she can't, it isn't your problem.

Next, she needs to get her own bank account, so that you can put half of oyur salary in it (if that is what you are supposed to do). Set it up FOR her if she drags her feet. Then you will not be tortured by how much money she spends and where it is going. I know about this one first hand. When I was still sharing a bank account with the X, I poured over it all the time, and it broke my heart seeing withdrawals for substantial sums right before the weekend, so he could take OW out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You really need to distance yourself from the money thing, because it is stopping you from being able to do an effective Plan A. You have an underlying anger about it, which WILL come out directed at W sooner or later. And since this is one area of the whole mess you CAN control, it is gonna make you feel a whole lot better.

Love and light,

Jacky

Oops, wrong thread!

<small>[ December 26, 2003, 08:50 PM: Message edited by: Nina too ]</small>

Hmm, good thoughts, thanks.

KaylaAndy: I wish she was that ignorant. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> But most of the minutes she's using are part of the "Unlimited Nights & Weekends" time, so there is no max, although she has used 153 of 200 "Anytime" minutes (daytime-weekdays) already, in addition to the 398 "Unlimited" minutes. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Edit: Cripes! And another 45 minutes since I got off the phone with her 1.5 hours ago!
Edit 2: DING! DING! And she's already gone over her "Anytime" minutes for the month, in only 5 days! But, I can switch it to her name if she wants to, and if not, I can have it disabled immediately. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

However, I did change the password to the online viewing of the account, so that she can't check it now. I had done that once before, and she told me she needed to have that so she could keep an eye on her minutes. Well now I figure that, if she's worried about her minutes, she can stop calling him for 2+ hours every day!

Nina too: That sounds good about the phone. Although our finances are hopelessly tangled up, I was think of saying to her "I'm not going to pay for that phone if you're using it to call him. I'm not even going to pay "my half" of it. You've got your weekly "allowance", and if you want that phone, you can pay for it out of that money."

As to the rest of the money thing, I sure wish I could. We both work full time, and we have about 20 bills to worry about every month. In order to cover those, I need about half of her income. Now, she did already open a seperate account when she moved out, and I have since opened one for myself, to protect the "bill money", in case she starts problems.

I suppose one thing I could work on for tomorrow is a new arrangement where she puts her money in her account, and sends me a sum from each check to cover our bills. Or, she keeps her money in her account, and I make sure that she gets a proportionate amount of the bills to pay every month.

I have to admit, part is my control issue with money, especially since I've seen how she handles hers, and it's scary. Because of that, I'm concerned about how much damage she could do, especially now while she's in her "fog".

On the one hand, we may need to separate some of those things. On the other hand, I really don't know if I trust her to take care of her part of it (she's perfectly able, but may not be willing). On the one hand, it'd be easier if I didn't have to worry about what she "might do" with our money. On the other hand, I need to have access to part of her income to cover all of these bills that we "signed up for" together.

<small>[ December 26, 2003, 09:47 PM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

And another 136 minutes between 9pm last night and now. Oh well.

One thing's for sure, I AM NOT going to pay even one penny for that cell phone any more. Not even the current month's bill. She didn't have any excess charges on it, but she can pay the $40 for this month and every month after until the end of her affair or the end of our marriage, and do so out of "her money".

I really don't think she cares about losing me or our marriage. I really believe that she sees marriages as a disposable thing. Get what you want, use it up, throw it away when it's no longer useful, and move on.

I'm prepared for negativity. I'm going to be cheerful, and considerate, and thoughtful, and not ask anything until I hear what she's got to say. But I've got three different plans depending on how negative she is about our marriage.

1) Pretty much keeping the status quo for finances, but asking her to switch the cell phone account to her name and her current address. (if I decide I can still trust her and she's not too negative, or even positive)

2) Offer a new budget, where we keep our incomes seperate, and split the bills in proportion to our incomes. This would probably just mean her paying me a set amount out of each of her paychecks. (if I can trust her, but she's mostly negative)

3) Offer a new budget where she takes full responsibility for every bill that is specifically hers, including seperating our car insurances, plus pays 50% of the bills that are ours (mortgage and loans). (if I don't trust her and/or she's totally negative)

For #3, if she doesn't agree to pay half of those loans, then I'd be forced file for divorce to protect myself. In this case, it'd be the only way, because I'm not willing to pay the full expense and let her share half of the earned equity. Besides, she may well decide that, if it's "this bad", she'd better go out and spend as much as she can on credit cards while she'll only be legally responsible for half of the debt.

Bottom line: No matter what happens, I'll be telling her that I will not continue to pay for her to be able to contact the OM. So she'll have to take responsibility for the cell phone account, or else I'll just cancel it. (I really want to just do this anyway, and force her to go out and get her own, but that's just out of spite, and switching the current one to her would have the same effect, without being a jerk about it.)

Beyond that, I hope to let her know that I still love her, that I hope that she'll come back to our home and our marriage and work with me on rebuilding it, but that I cannot be any part of her life as long as she continues her relationship with the OM.

Now to put that last bit in a letter...

Hi UN,

I started a long reply to you last weekend with some specifics on the whole idea of getting yourself detached from your W's behaviour...but then I got distracted (sigh...it is that time of the year isn't it?) and didn't finish it. However, you've had tons of great advice from others since then and things seem to be more or less on track?

Here are a couple of quick suggestions:

1. Please listen to Just J. She's got an amazing sense of humour and is doing fantastically (IMO of course <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ) in Plan B. She understands what it is all about from a personal perspective and you need to prepare YOURSELF (not your foggy W) for what will happen in Plan B.

Plan B is about YOU, not her.

2. Listen to KaylaAndy...he is trying to get you to understand the dynamic between you and your alien W regarding the phone use. RESPECT!!! (do you like Aretha? Sing it to yourself to remind yourself that ALL of YOUR interactions with your W need to be based on RESPECT).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I was think of saying to her "I'm not going to pay for that phone if you're using it to call him. I'm not even going to pay "my half" of it. You've got your weekly "allowance", and if you want that phone, you can pay for it out of that money." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your proposed interaction is based on anger and fear...remove both and replace with respect.

If the roles were reversed, would you appreciate being spoken to that way? Would it make you feel good about your W? Have respect for her feelings and opinions?

Stop putting OM in the middle of every single interaction between you and your W. Act "as if" you are in a loving relationship together. Speak to her as if you are.

This does not mean you cannot have boundaries. Re-read what KaylaAndy wrote.

3. I also think that suggestion about the "180 man" is awesome! Be strong, be quiet, listen, nod thoughtfully and tell her you need some time to think! Leave her wondering...what a great 180 that would be!

Do you agree? Would it be a 180 for you NOT to REACT to something your W says to you? To instead quietly kiss her on the cheek, say "take care" and "I'll be in touch soon with my response"?

If so, DO IT! Surprise her for a change. Leave her wondering what's up with you. And most importantly...take the TIME to think about how you WANT to respond, rather than simply REACTING to her.

I suspect it would benefit you greatly if you could break this reactive pattern of behaviour with your W. It will be good for your marriage in the long run and truly necessary for your own sanity/love bank in the short term.

Good luck!!! I'll be rooting for you...awed

P.S.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I really don't think she cares about losing me or our marriage. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You just CANNOT put any stock in ANYTHING she is saying or doing right now. NONE.

My H cried x-mas eve...just spontaneously started crying...couldn't believe what he'd said and done over the past 1.5 years...couldn't believe what he'd almost lost...couldn't believe how close he came to wrecking everything he treasures...

At yet at the time, he was apparently in control of himself, did some "good" thinking (I mean stuff I agree was "good")...coldly told me that there was nothing about our relationship he valued, let alone treasured.

It is so much like an alien takeover...even for the WS...once they are truly out of the fog, they look back in absolute bewilderment...

So to specifically address your INTENSE trigger of the the extra phone minutes...here's another way to help yourself over the anger and into RESPECT. What if she's really torn? Perhaps she's trying to end it with him? If that is the case, will an angry, disrespectful accusation from you help or hinder her decision???

The one time I gave up on my marriage during Plan A, decided that my H really was in love with OW and so I was giving up...well...it turns out he had decided she was untrustworthy, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> that he was reconsidering her character to the core (we've all been friends for a long time)...in fact, he had told her that very day that they were through, and for the first time, he openly said he did not trust her...

So it turns out the reason he was looking at her repeatedly that night was because of these thoughts...these bad thoughts about her...

And yet I thought it was for completely the opposite reason... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I thought he could not keep his eyes off her, that he had made up his mind that he was through with our marriage and committing himself to her 100%!!!

DON'T assume...your assumptions (emotions) can really lead you astray. Decide on your course, your path...take responsibility for YOUR actions and reactions...let your W work through her own "truth" and consequences.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">3. I also think that suggestion about the "180 man" is awesome! Be strong, be quiet, listen, nod thoughtfully and tell her you need some time to think! Leave her wondering...what a great 180 that would be!

Do you agree? Would it be a 180 for you NOT to REACT to something your W says to you? To instead quietly kiss her on the cheek, say "take care" and "I'll be in touch soon with my response"?

If so, DO IT! Surprise her for a change. Leave her wondering what's up with you. And most importantly...take the TIME to think about how you WANT to respond, rather than simply REACTING to her.

I suspect it would benefit you greatly if you could break this reactive pattern of behaviour with your W. It will be good for your marriage in the long run and truly necessary for your own sanity/love bank in the short term.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you again for talking me down from the brink. That suggestion is right on the mark! I have always been so reactive, doing and speaking before I really think. It's what I did every time I found more "proof". Even though the last time (1 week before she moved out), I did sit down and calmly discuss my feelings with her, I followed that up with more reactiveness every time she didn't say "I Love You" or pulled away from cuddling and affection.

My only REAL plan for today is to try and keep my mouth shut. Seriously! I won't be completely silent I'm sure, but if I try not to talk at all, I figure that maybe I'll only speak 20% of the time, instead of 80%. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

How about...

"I noticed when I was cheking last month's bill online that you've already used up your minutes for this month. At this rate, I'm not going to be able to make the payments on that account. So I either have to deactivate the phone, or have you transfer it into your name. I didn't want to leave you without a phone, so I decided to give you the choice, instead of shutting it off in a panic."

I hope that I didn't steal too much from you there KaylaAndy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Yep. As hard as it may be, I'll just smile, and not say a word about her airline ticket, or who she's been calling, or the gifts she sent to him...just getting that out of my system, since she'll be here in under an hour. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Wow...I just re-read my earlier post from this morning. I sure do love to jump right into that "I'll divorce you if I don't get my way" mentality, don't I?

I guess it's no big deal really, in the long run. Sure, it hurts like he!! knowing what's going on, but it's not really costing me anything except for the thought and emotion I keep attaching to it.

Detach...detach...it's not about her, it's about my feelings and my reactions...180...180...180 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Well, it was sure a long meeting with my STBXW. 3.5 hours total, with about 1.5 hours on life in general, an hour on each of our feelings, and an hour coming to a financial arrangement for the near future.
--------------------------------------------------
It's so nice that she has a counselor and family who are all giving her the "follow your heart" advice. Not one person that she speaks to, other than me, even considers the idea of suggesting that people can learn new things, change bad habits, fall in love, and work to recover a marriage.
--------------------------------------------------
You know all of these quotes around here about being on the fence and/or being a cake-eater? About those WS who say they don't want to lose their BS or family and such? Not mine, not in the least. She isn't concerned about losing me, losing our family unit, losing our house, or any other aspect of our entire relationship. She just does not care, at all, period.

Of course, I still hold out hope that it's all "fog talk". I'm sure that if I could remember some specific comments and posted them, I'd get any number of people pointing out that every WS says it. I just don't believe it. I really don't think that she's this much into the guys (yes, now it's more than one) that she's giving all of her time and energy and thoughtfulness and caring to. It's just that she's so NOT into me anymore.

If it's pure "fog talk", then she's as convincing as they come, because I didn't see one look in her eyes, nor hear one word from her mouth, that gave me even the slightest glimmer of hope.
--------------------------------------------------
The best that I got out of her was that she'd wait until after we got our Tax Refund next February and paid off some debts before doing anything, unless she comes to a firm decision before then, at which time she promises to "let me know".

So after all of that, I gave her my Plan B letter. This really didn't say anything new other than letting her know that this was destroying my trust and respect for her, and because of that, I will no longer be a part of her life, unless and until she decides to take action towards working on our marriage. I just can't deal with her anymore. After this post, I don't even want to think about her anymore. I wish I could just remove the part of my brain that holds the thoughts of her and...and...ok, so I'm psychos too.
--------------------------------------------------
I only remember ONE time where I slipped with a very minor LB, which was to begin to point the finger at her for something. But considering how much she said about what I did wrong, and how I acted, and everything else negative about my entire existence, other than that one slip, I just nodded my head, and said things like..."I think I can understand that." or "I agree, you're right."
--------------------------------------------------
So for the time being, we're leaving our finances as is, except for two things.

1) She's taking over the cell phone account from this point forward. I'll "split" the cost of this months bill only because over the whole month, it only works out to her "owing me" about $7 a week. Besides, she's taken lower amounts out a couple of times too, which more than covers that.

2) She's having two of her three credit cards sent to her new address. I'll still be getting and paying the one with a high balance out of our joint funds, because I'm sending large payments when possible from what we don't spend elsewhere. But her charges, like for games and airline tickets, are going to be on those other accounts, and paid for by her out of her half of the spending money.

So, I feel a little better in that I stood firm in my boundaries about our marriage and our finances. But I may have left her with too much leeway to screw me over in the future.
--------------------------------------------------
Oh yeah, and I was stupid enough to tell her I had talked to a lawyer, and even worse, shared some of the things that my lawyer had told me. Dang her and her mind twisting comments. I don't even know why I opened my mouth. It just started coming out, and before I realized it, I had already said too much.

So, I didn't do too bad, but with everything else, she pretty much bought more time from me, for whatever purpose she has, and I think it has nothing to do with staying married.

And another thing, yes, more than one guy now. She actually had the audacity to tell me how many hours she had been talking to this OTHER guy on the phone the past few days, and how during some "joking", he said he'd buy her a ticket to fly out to him if she could. To which she told me she had replied that she would if she didn't have to work.

HA HA! So funny to me!

I guess she had to turn to this guy because her 1st OM was out of town visiting family for the holiday. Heaven forbid she actually have to go a few days without having some OM to act like a **** towards. Heaven forbid that she actully consider her flippin' HUSBAND when trying to find someone to talk to, etc, etc.

Do I want to be right, or do I want to be married?

With this woman, I think I'd much rather be right, because I might have to sacrifice too much of my soul to stay married. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Uncomfortably Numb:
Well, it was sure a long meeting with my STBXW.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">be careful with such labels. your're not even close yet.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If it's pure "fog talk", then she's as convincing as they come, because I didn't see one look in her eyes, nor hear one word from her mouth, that gave me even the slightest glimmer of hope.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">she's as convincing as they come because she actually believes what she's telling you. the life of a wayward spouse is quite uncomfortable, so all ws's create a world that makes it comfortable for them to exist. part of that comfort is convincing themselves that half-truths are, in fact, full-truths, or (worse) that lies are the truth. it's a sad reality.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The best that I got out of her was that she'd wait until after we got our Tax Refund next February and paid off some debts before doing anything, unless she comes to a firm decision before then, at which time she promises to "let me know".</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">they're never so convicted when it comes to actually legally ending their marriages. but they're always so certain they don't love the spouse any more. i would have asked why she was waiting.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So after all of that, I gave her my Plan B letter.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">bravo! now what's your plan? what will you do when she decides to break your boundaries (and she will decide to break them)?

it sounds like this went as well as can be expected and that you did a good job.

<small>[ December 27, 2003, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: whippit ]</small>

Okay, I haven't finished reading this thread (always a poor choice; I'll come back and edit if I need to), but I've got to jump in here about the cell phone.

KNOCK IT OFF!!!

You are in Plan A, Mr. UN. That means you meet needs, including Financial Support, and you SMILE while you're doing it. I don't really care if it pisses you off. This is in the "do you want to be right or do you want to be married?" category.

When you're in Plan B, you can cancel the cell phone service. If you can't stand it and have to do something about the cell phone service, then GO INTO PLAN B.

And no, just kicking around and thinking about it is NOT the way to do it. Here, lemme post my checklist:

Research
-- Am I planning for long term or short term?
-- What about child support?

Taking Care of Me
-- Start taking Lexapro
-- End sessions with Joe
-- Listen to yourself. Learn to hear demands and when you're telling people to do things.
-- Listen to your Giver.
-- Listen to your Taker.

Communications Preparation
-- Plan B letter
-- Determine who will be go-between
-- Make sure work knows not to provide my contact information.
-- Talk to parents about the situation
-- Talk to mutual friends and acquaintainces about the situation
-- Change e-mail and account passwords
-- Filter e-mail to a special folder
-- Notification of changed e-mail address and phone number.
-- Block WP from AIM and YM
-- Print Plan B letter and leave for WP

Finances
-- Figure out my own personal budget
-- Contact a lawyer and discuss legally required financial obligations. Also discuss adoption/custody ramifications.
-- Find out how long it takes to revise automatic deposit location.
-- Open new bank account.
-- Change Comcast account holder.
-- Change automatic deposit of paycheck after August 10 paycheck.
-- Move half of current bank account balance to new account.
-- Print statement of current balance and transfer amount.
-- Take or print a Fidelity statement with value as of August 8.
-- Get new (separate) cell phone service.
-- Take WP’s name off of the car insurance.
-- Set up automatic monthly transfer of $XX into joint account.

DD
-- Set up schedule for me to have her.
-- Talk to boss about work schedule.
-- Try to close adoption loopholes
-- Find out how much day care will cost, if needed.
-- Find out about custody ahead of adoption
-- Find out about abandonment in legal terms
-- Car seat in the red car
-- Clothes and supplies for her at my place.

Housing
-- Find a place to live.
-- Determine needs for furniture, if any.
-- Complete packing list.
-- Begin to organize things such that they are quickly and easily packed.
-- Plan move.
-- Packing and moving dry run
-- Pack
-- Move

Before Going
-- House clean and neat
-- Enough diapers and other baby stuff here.
-- Food in the fridge, meal plan for the week known and prep as complete as possible.
-- Completely out of the house

Now, this is MY list, and it's nowhere near complete. But it should give you a general idea of what you need to do in terms of planning.

And one last thing, since I'm being told it's TIME TO GO TO DINNER: Do not "offer" new budgets. When you go to Plan B, change it to what you want. Until then, MAKE NO CHANGES.

Ok, food now.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">i would have asked why she was waiting.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Actually I did, in a roundabout sort of way, while she was talking about her conversations with her therapist. About how they'd discussed her making a decision, because it wasn't fair to anyone to keep "sitting on the fence". I asked if she'd made a decision yet, and she said...

"Not yet, but I don't ever see myself wanting to come back. When I think of the future, I just don't see you there."

So I asked her what did she think was making it so hard to decide, but this was followed by the normal talk about caring about me like a friend, but not being turned on by me, not loving me like that, not thinking that we could change enough to be happy, or that we ever got along.

I mostly replied with comments about how I was learning a lot about the mistakes I'd made, how better to recognize them, and to choose a better course of action in the future. About how it seemed from what we'd just talked about that our biggest problem was very poor communication, but now that we're both becoming more aware of these problems, we can learn new skills, and new habits that will make everyone happier.

And now that I think about it, she danced around the subject enough that I never even got an answer as to she couldn't decide. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Oh, another funny thing, and another LB I let pass...

Talking about some things, she mentioned how she thought it was great how I'd done so much work on the house since she left, but it kind of ticked her off. All the times she's mentioned this, that, and the other thing, and it never got done. But now, as soon as she leaves, all of this stuff gets taken care of. I really wanted to say...

"Well, that's because all you ever did is whine and complain, and never got off your own butt long enough to do anything. So I finally got sick of having to be the one to start every task, if not do it completely on my own!"

But I didn't. Instead I said something like...

"I can understand how that would upset you. That was never my intention. I suppose I may have just felt like I wasn't getting enough help. I sure wish I would've said so, or at least in a better way."

<small>[ December 27, 2003, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

UN:

Thankfully, I don't have anything I need 2 add 2 all the great advice you've been given here.

Just 2 note: You're letting your imagination run amok. Cut that out. Focus on how YOU feel about YOU as a man, as a H, as a friend and companion 2 those around you.

You're still trying 2 make sense out of your W's behaviors. You can't. Don't. Your W wants out of the M? Don't even believe it. Even if that's what happens, you can't trust her 2 make sensible statements about her fu2re, let alone yours, so let go of this endless guessing what she's thinking or doing.

Again, what about you? I want 2 hear more about the kind of man you want 2 be. The kind of man that your W or some other lady will want 2 call "H" someday. She can't do it now, but she might be able 2 someday. For now, don't play her games.

-2long