My wife and I have been married for 13 years and have two beautiful children, son 4 and daughter 7. About two months ago my wife suspected and I confirmed that I was having a short term affair. This was actually my second affair, the first being 8 years ago. I have ended the A and have not had any contact with her since. Obviously my wife is devasted and we have seperated at her request. I have been getting counseling to help me understand why I could have done such a thing and to prevent this from ever happening again. My priest is acutally the one that recommneded my therapist and it has helped uncover several issues that I have had for most of my life....not an excuse for what I have done by any means.

The issue that I am having the most trouble dealing with now is the fear of the unkown. My therapist feels that now is not the time to bring up this discussion with my W and should wait until after the Holidays have past. I have no idea what my W wants do but have a feeling she will be strongly influenced by her parents, especially her Mother. I do not want to force the issue but it would be helpful if I knew what her thoughts were....we only discuss the children when we see each other. I know that her parents and close friends have suggested that she go and get some counseling as well; our priest sent some literature to her and a letter of support on his own initiative. I am truly ashamed for what I have done and the affect it has had on my entire family. We definitely have some major issues in our marriage in terms of needs being met or not met (both on my part and hers)however, I don't know what else I should do other than wait to see what happens? I really want to prove my committment to my W but have doubts if I will ever be given another opportunity; is there such a thing as one more chance with two strikes already against me? I have no idea what my next step should be! Any advice would be greatly appreciated!!

If I were your wife, I would need to be reassured of your love and committment to me and need to see your plan of recovery. That plan of recovery would have to include a new openess that would ensure my protection [passwords to all voicemail, computer, email, cell phones and a knowledge of your whereabouts 24/7] and a plan to find out WHY you did this - TWICE - and what you plan to do to change. It would take a long time for me to ever feel safe around you again.

And yes, maybe there were conditions in the marriage that made you vulnerable to an affair. Those will have to be eventually addressed if she takes you back. But PLEASE DO NOT bring them up now or in the near future. If you indicate that you think anyone except yourself is 100% responsible, it will make her more wary. Now is not a good time to bring anything like that up.

You will also have to prove to her that you love her and believe she is worthy. Especially since your actions say otherwise. You not only chose someone else OVER HER but thought so little of your marriage with her, that you were willing to throw it away for some other woman. Was the other woman worth it? She will think the OW WAS unless you prove otherwise.

Only time will tell if she will take you back, but the above are some of the key issues that most betrayed spouses are concerned with. I wish you the best and want you to know that you will get lots of support here so keep posting!

Some good books that might be a huge help are Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs. The former gives some very good suggestions about recovering a marriage.

Thank you for your advice and I will say that I have begun one of the steps and that is to find out why. I like your idea as to giving her passwords and the like. I will continue to keep hope and from what you say only time will tell.

Thank you again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> Some good books that might be a huge help are Surviving an Affair and His Needs/Her Needs. The former gives some very good suggestions about recovering a marriage. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you for your advice and I have begun the road to finding out why I did this. I do like your second recommendation regarding the passwords and wherabouts. Thanks again for the help!

How about writing her a love letter explaining your thoughts these days.

Include an explanation of how the A happened (how lack of ENs led there). Make sure not to blame and to explain how you are going to rectify the situation, by meeting her ENs, making extraordinary changes so A could not happen in the future. Offer to answer any questions she has about the A.

Tell her you are posting here and it's been a great resource. Invite her to post here and learn here as well. Tell her you are going to be following the MB principles.

Apologize for past mistakes. Include your wishes for the future.

I am gald that you mentioned the letter, that is just what my therapist and I have worked on and I gave it to my W this last week. I have not received any feedback nor do I anticipate any. The main issue is that I indicated I am working to come to an understanding as to why and that I want to become a better person to her and our children through this process. I don't want to be pushy and at this point I am letting her take the lead regarding questions about the A. Still, I really do wish I knew what her intentions are?

Thanks for all of the advice!

Give her concrete proof. Make promises and keep them. Concentrate on "verifiable truths".

Tell her the actions that you'll take to improve your marital environment. The passwords, being able to be reached wherever you say you'll be any time of the day or night. Writing a No Contact letter to the OW, whether she's an issue right now or not, may also add some closure to that event for your W. Show her through your actions that you have nothing to hide. Show her through your actions that you are being totally open and honest with her.

I would also suggest taking a more pro-active path in pursuing her. Let her see how very much the marriage means to you and show her that you are willing to do what it takes to get her back. She will need to see such a show to believe that you really do care.

MelodyLane....I appreciate all of your advice but can you help clarify what some of my actions should be. I don't want to be viewed as being harrassing or overly agressive here. You would think @ 37 I would be able to answer these questions myself but obviously I can't and need some help.

Any suggestions would be appreciated?

basically no matter what...there is NOTHING you can do to change or control your wife...or anyone else for that matter...so you should start there....so you do what need to do...

the other thing is that it is our actions that define us.....that no matter what comes out of lips if the actions do not coincide with the words then everyone is wasting time...

Therefor inaction (yours) runs the risk and I believe a greater risk than action in trying to get her back....

And fear of the unkown...fear of not knowing what your wife wants...wasted time and energy...

1. she may not know what she wants at this time...but if you choose to do nothing untill she decides something you will lose her...

2. What she wants is somewhat irrevelant on what you want ...if you want to work it out and make huge huge amends...then act thusly and engage in actions and words that move you in that direction regardless of what she wants..

3. If you have had the epiphany that you are finally beginging to grasp the complex importance, beauty and sanctuary that a committed marriage is and can mean...then you must begin to live as if your believe and value that ..

each and every small change that you make and consistantly portray until it really does become you the more you will be proving yourself....

1. Are you seeing the children?
2. Are you asking how she is...NOT in relationship to you and the affairs...but how she is doing, feeling, sleeping eating..have you verbalized concern about her....
3. did you get her some gift for the holidays...
4. have you created a safe environment for her to ask questions about your affairs...
5. are you accountable with your time, etc
6. Have you invited her somewhere with the children...gone out to eat somewhere...have you created any friendly environments in which the family can take a break from the crisis...

Have you told her some hows and whys you see what you did in the past was wrong...not it an I'm sorry lets get past this type of way...but in a way shows that you really really get the pain your actions cause...

and to be honest..the fact that you "want to work this out"...but want to "wait and see" what she wants is really wimpy and kind of takes the onus of responsibility of fixing this off of you..places it on her...which is not where it should be...

It's like you are saying...I'll fix this and do the hard work...BUT only if you do to or want to also... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

You want this fixed...then work at it hard and dedicated..regardless of what she wants right now...

anything else and your actions are not of remorse but of avoidance and more hurt too her..

she knows you are capable of whoooing and paying attention to other woman....
ignore and lay low on this one....and you will lose her...
not because she "chose" that...but because your own actions lead her to believe that you weren't serious about fixing this...

you will stumble...at times you may even appear as pushy ....so what???
In her minds she thoughts that haunt her about your actions and behaviors over her affair..haunt and torment her...she probably thinks you were pushy with the other women...

In her mind you aggressively pursued two other woman over the risk of her and children...
you dam well better fight for her now if thats what YOU want regardless of her wants right now...

you change your tatics based on her response...
you figure out what works..
what needs of hers you can and she will let you meet...and your work slowly and steadily at changing and becoming the husband and dad you visualize you want to be...that both you and she are worthy of...

you my man have lots of work to do...
better get busy doing rather than living in fear...
ARK

ARK....you are right and you have confirmed what some of my other close friends have said to me over the holdidays. I want this to work and through actions not words will do everything I can to make sure it does.

Stupid question, but how would you suggest I create "a comfortable environment for my W" so that she can ask me questions and have a discussion about what I have done?

I have been living in fear and now its time to move forward. Thank you very much for the advice and I will keep you all posted on my progress.

I mean that you are honest even when the truth will hurt her...that holding back info because you don't want to hurt someone with the reality that they can/may found out in the future that what they believed at one time was total disclosure was just more lies...can be devastating...

You know the real question here before any one can deal honestly with you on recovery is are you in 1000000000% no contact with either of the OW...

Huh Huh Huh Huh?????? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Also know that you wife may ask you the same things over and over again...stick with her...answer honestly each time....

Also know that while you will be exposed to her pain and hurt over the truth....that you can maintain a slight grasp on boundaries so that each and every interaction is not one big beat up on you fest....
this is not to deny her the right to express her pain and hurt...but if a couple gets stuck in a cycle of hurt...nothing else moves forward...

but you will need to suck it in ...and take a lot before you can call time-out...

You should be attempting to meet any and every need she will let you..
you should expect her to be angry that you are suddenly attentive to some things you may not have been attentive too in the past...
you should expect to be accused of trying to hard to late..
you should expect to be told that the changes you are making now...should not be trusted to stay change...
you should expect anger,
hurt
lashing out
and feeling like all your attempts are in vain...
but don't let any of those things stop you from your path of recovery...

ARK

ARK...I have not had contact with the most recent OW since October 2003 and the first OW in over 8 years. So yes I have not nor plan to have any other contact. My W and I did have an interesting conversation tonight when I asked her to let me know if there was anything she needed, then paused and added "Would you even tell me at this point if there was anything you needed" Her response with a slight smile (smirk) was that probably not....I am still going to ask!!! Also, brought up the fact that she and I need to have some time together to talk and sooner better than later. She agreed and we will probably have our first heart to heart after New Years!

One last thing, I gave her every single password I have for my e-mail (personal and corporate), cell phone voice mail and access to my company voice mail. I told her I did not want to hide anything from her and want to be completely open and honest with her.

Thanks for the continued support!!

I just purchased a copy of His Need Her Needs and wanted to know if any of you think it would be advisable to leave a copy of this book with my wife. With all that I have done, do you think it would be too forward of me to suggest that she read this book under the assumption that there is some very good information that could help her deal with her pain, and gain some insight into our situation????

what does she say about any possible reconcilliation..

what do the the two you talk about...

what does she see in the future.....

was this seperation permanant...or are there plans for you to move back in....

are spending time in the family home as a family....

have you announced your desire to work this out regardless of her desire....or are you waiting for her to make the first move....???
huh huh huh huh....????
Ok that's really annoying...but the two year old does it to me all the time...and I just thought I would share the insanity..

speak your peace my man...
don't be afraid of her intentions...the sooner you know the sooner you will be able to make plans and action...
the unknown is way worse than the known...even though you don't believe that...and if I were you I wouldn't believe it either...human nature...eh?

and you better let go of your fear of making mistakes....cause inaction can be just as bad...and sometimes worse that bad actions or choices.....

ARK

ARK...at this point most of our converations deal with our children and activities we have planned with them. I don't think this separation is permanent but then again I have not asked my W that question. We do spend time together as a family albeit not as much as I would like at this point. But since your call to action on my part, I have asked her to come along when I have the kids but she has declined so far...I'm going to keep on asking. She did finally relent and called me for some addtional help around the house and with making plans for our son's upcoming birthday party....I gladly accepted. She appears to be more willing to accept my help than about a month or so ago.....don't know what to think

We are planning to have a heart to heart very soon and as a matter of fact I did tell her that we needed to have some time to talk. She agreed!!

I am doing my best to keep a postive spin on this and have decided sitting on the sidelines waiting for something to happen is not in mine nor her best interest.

The best that I can do is take concrete action every day. I am becomming more and more convinced that even the smallest things add up but it is going to take a lot of time.

Thanks for all your support and have a Happy New Year!!!

throw in some conversation about her....

ask how she is...ask how she is feeling...in general...
ask if she is sleeping well...eating well....

consider bringing her a thoughtful gift...not typical romantic...ie no cards or flowers...but pick her up a favorite dessert from a restaurant...or small bottle of lotion or bubble bath one of those good smelling stress reducers......expect no great response...do it because you care...not because you expect anything in return...

realize the fact that you had two other woman...paints you as an agressive pursuer...which you probably were..hard to believe two seperate women relentessly pursued you and you were victim to their whiles... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
bad track record.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

you have to realize how you past actions have defined you....
to tell a spouse you are remorsefull means nothing without the action....read the other posters here going through the heartbreaking pain of WS that give lip service only to their regret and just want to it to move forward as if it never happened....painful painful painful....

What is your game plan for the big talk...big talks can have a lot of pressure attached to them...and can quickly disinengrate into love busting fests...
what is on your agenda....

for a long time in marriages people often do for others expecting in return...learn to do things with no strings attached...
no matter how scary...no matter how empty the response...

I hope you are spending lots of time with the kids...
look at how it is on her side..
you have had two affairs...
now she has the children all the time..and you have all the free time in the world...to do what with...
heck if I was your wife...part of me would assume...more affairs...
call every night...assure her/kids of whereabouts....
become 1000000% accountable....

lonelyfather...the truth of this whole mess is that when two people really commit to one another...and really begin to work together as partners...being there for one another before anyone else...then marriage becomes really just a celebration of eachothers love and energy....
you didn't believe that for a long time...
but if you are starting too..then it's worth the fight..
and it's worth the fear...
and it's worth it for the children...

ARK

ARK..having a game plan for our talk is a great idea rather than winging it. Becoming 100000% accountable is something I am trying to do ( passwords, schedules, email and voice mail access) but is there more???? I do not ever expect any type of response I just want her to know that I care and am committed to our marriage and our children.

They are all that matter.

I looked over all your posts and I was not entirely clear about this detail....

Was your first affair ever exposed?

How did your wife deal with affair #1 (if she does know about that affair.... does she?).



Good luck.

Pep