Hello MB friends,
I just want to again remind everyone of the importance of time and patience in a marital crisis.

After wanting to work it out with my exH for a very long time (18 mos- 2 1/2 years depending on how it's analyzed) there is now some progress. I still can't believe it.

ExH came over on Christmas Eve. This is the first Christmas Eve we've spent together as a family since 1999. (He moved out in 2000.) This follows Monday evening's dinner out- with him and I alone, no children.

He brought me three gifts on Christmas Eve! I was stunned. First gifts in years, since 1999 in fact. I gave him a gift this year, and one last year too that I had shipped to him. The gifts he brought were wonderful. I was surprised and extremely touched by his thoughtfulness. Truly some of the best, most meaningful gifts I've ever received in my life.

I invited him back on Christmas morning for breakfast. He came, and for the first time since separation the children slept here on Christmas Eve. For the first time in years we were together on Christmas morning.

This has been a very meaningful Christmas to me. It's wonderful to feel and experience firsthand the power of love and healing.

I was the WS, and I lost it all because of it. No matter what happens, I'll always have to live with that knowledge. It's not very pleasant, but I can accept that I am a very imperfect human being. I feel and now see that in time, with God's help, exH and I can be together. I've never wavered, really, in that thought.

DD asked me tonight if exH and I would date, or just remarry! She said it seemed 'dumb' to date after knowing him 30 years. I said I didn't know what would happen, but that things take time.

Thanks again for all your help and support. Again, I can't express enough how important it is not to give up.

During all this time, my exH hasn't hardly given me any sort of feeling or clue that he cared at all anymore. I'm so glad I didn't give up.

I love Redhat's quote about looking back in 10 years without regret. Thanks again to Redhat for reminding me a few months ago that it's not time to give up until you're totally ready, or the ex has remarried. Thanks too to the rest of you- you know who you are-- for your unending support, kindness, and caring.

God bless,
HP

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 04:11 AM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

HP, your story touched my underbelly <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . Take it easy ... both of you have a long road ahead. However this is the first step. My opinion is you should date him (romantically of course), let him to know you (you have been apart for soo long & he has many Q), and may God blesses you and your family a smooth journey to reconsiliation & fulfiling M. With your knowledge of MB you will be able to do 4 gifts of love and make him fall in love all over again.

This Christmas season couldn't get any better.

Thanks you Lord for your answer to many prayers and thank you Lord for showing miracle and sustain hope when there is not any. Amen.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ok, that's my limit for this post.

I'm glad you had a good Christmas, H_P. Keep up the good work!

Hi There Hopeful-

Congrats, I am happy for you. You're the best! See...what did I tell ya! I knew you could do it.
I am happy for you. Merry Christmas!

Rly

congrats hopeful. remember the need for drama. you had it, even thought it was viral induced I think. the being sick, then you took the bull by the horns and ask for help, good for you. he is passive, and this clicked in his psychic. I had said that you two would be the best for one another. your ex has known that all along, he just finally accepted it and swallowed his pride. I, like many others, have pulled for you all along. now you know that the quiet steady man makes for a mate and not the latin lover. all style and no substance? just a guess on the latin lover thing, anyway what a good christmas huh:)

Thanks for your replies.

It's so nice of you to take the time!

Tonight ExH came in and picked up the boys for the weekend. It was very empty here after they left...it's been a houseful of people for days now. I decided to write in my journal and concentrate on all the blessings that have come my way.

ExH was friendly tonight. I do detect a difference in the way he looks at me. I hope I'm not overdoing it, but it seems he's looking at me with love now, or at the very least a lot more warmth.

I would like him to just stay, and never leave again. I know that it won't happen that way, but it's hard not to think of this.

For your replies:

Redhat,
Thanks for your kindness. I like and agree with your opinion on dating him. Part of me is afraid he won't ask me out again. It's tough to feel this way, but it's necessary.

I will read more on the four gifts of love that you mentioned. I know that before in our marriage I wasn't always my best self!

Redhat, thanks again for your help. I hope you've had a great Christmas.

Just J,
Thanks for your unending support and enthusiasm. I need it!

Rlyhurtin,
How nice to hear from you. I remember, you always predicted good things for me by the end of the year. Things certainly are looking better, aren't they? Thanks so much for your help and kindness.

Checkers,
It's always great to hear from you. I think you're right, the drama did help, even though it was viral induced. I will have to present some more drama as time goes on, won't I? I mean nice drama, but I think he still may need some encouraging.

You're right about my exH. He is quiet and steady. ExOM isn't even worth thinking about, what a big waste of time. Believe me Checkers, the 'fog' thing exists. I still shake my head in disbelief and shame at my actions and behavior during the A.

Take care everyone and keep your thoughts coming,
H_P

Holy Christmas Pudding with Brandy Butter H_P <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

What wonderful Christmas news. Keep going slowly, but there are serious signs here of a man coming home.

So very happy for you.

Lisa

Congrats, Hopeful!

Your story is one that is truly amazing. I remember when I first read your post. I sought you out because you seemed to have been where my wife is now. You opened a new door to me by posting what was going on with you during your time of waywardness. I had a good mind to cut and paste your reply and send it to my wife. I thought that maybe she could see what the future holds for her. I did not though.

I've been holding out for her, but I feel like I cannot hold out anymore. Too much pain, too much rejection, too much responsibility of raising these precious children. I have let go. But your story now is giving me hope, but right now I just don't think I can do it.

Take your time with this. I am sure your husband is sizing you up to see if there is any resemblence of what was there the first time around that caused you to do what you did before. I am sure he is very apprehensive. If it were me and my wife came back, as much as I would like for her to take things quickly and seduce me, that would most definitely push my mind away. Just be as wise as a serpent in all of this and before every encounter with him send up a prayer. You will be fine and your family will be restored. What greater news than that!

H_P,
You sound better than I have heard you sound for a long time.

Cautiously optimistic - which is good because you need to continue to protect your feelings for however long this takes. I think you understand the problems you still face, and I think you have the right attitude to face them.

Faith is a very interesting thing. God will always help us as much as he can, it's up to us to believe that he is helping, and will continue to help. He does it all and still gives us free will. He prompts us, we decide to come or not.

I have to be glad you came, and that your H is coming. What a great deal of Joy that must create in Heaven for those assigned to watch over both of you.

My heart is very happy for you, and I believe it will continue. Thank you for your recent good example, I have to think it counts for something.

SS

Thanks for your replies!

Lisa,
It's great to hear from you. (never had brandy butter, but yes on buttered rum!) I will keep going slowly, as that's how he wants it.

Thanks for being happy for me! How was your holiday? Did you go to somewhere exotic and warm?
Do tell.

Solon,
Glad I could help you that time when I explained how I thought when I was wayward.

You said you're done holding out for your wife. YOu'd be surprised, there were moments I was tired of waiting for my exH to come around, too. IT's hard to keep loving with nothing visible in return. I'm still impatient. You'll know when it's really time to give up. Maybe you're really not quite there yet. You truly can do it alone, while waiting for your wife to settle down and come back to earth. Give it as much time as it needs so that you don't have any doubt at all!


You're right, I would like things to go quickly. I've been waiting a long time. I see though that I can wait longer for more 'payoffs', so to speak. This is still the planting seeds part, isn't it? On the other hand, exH is rather passive, so at times I feel I must shake things up a bit or we'll remain in limbo land. I pray not, but at times I worry.

thanks again for your reply, solon!

Still Seeking,
Thanks for your words, too.

Yes, you're right. I do see the problems I still face, but that's fine. AT least I see A LOT of growth from a few weeks ago! It's like night and day compared to last year. That's all I need, some sort of growth.

Take care and thanks again to everybody for your support and kindness.

HP

well H_P

my christmas hugs and kisses <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> . ( u are older enuf to be my mom - oldy oldy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

I have been following u for a long time. U know this is great. JUST GREAT.

you know your marriage was a big tree. you and Mr.Nice both planted it and took care the sapling and the marriage tree was there. Then you lost the top drawer of your head. then you both did not took care of the tree. Did not give enough water (LOVE), did not put pesticides (compasion, POJA,ENs etc....). But you wanted only the fruits. Suddenly there are no fruits. But both of you were hungry.

Then oneday you gave a seed to the OM bas*[censored] without thinking much about it .(sorry , being myself an OM i cant forgive myself)
He put the seed and started watering it. You also started taking care the sapling. It was a new tree which you have not seen. So you gave more attention to that than the old tree. Mr.Nice has become numb because of hunger and could not also look after the old tree. So one day it fell.
As you have the new sapling which gave fruits before becoming a tree, you were happy that the old tree fell.

Then you started smothering the A tree with water and attention. Suddenly after some time it became a monster tree and started giving bitter fruits.
You can not stomach them or eat them , you stared comparing the trees. Then you felt the goodness about the tree you had with Mr.Nice.

Then you stopped watering the new tree and the OM went somewhere to put the seeds again. Alas !, you now have no tree at all. U also became so hungry for the fruits from the old tree.

So started giving seeds to Mr.Nice. But Mr.Nice is clear that you are giving him bad seeds so he did not put that into ground. But you were keep on giving new seeds whenever you saw him and reminding him about the fruits of the old tree.You also have tons of water stored for watering the new tree. but he is unsure, he is better being hungry than eating poisionous fruits you are planning to give him in the future.

But you were keep on giving him, He is also so hungry. So oneday he took the seed and saw it in the light. It looked liked the seed of the old tree. So he took the chance with you and put that into ground. As you have seen it, you started watering it without asking him to do so. Then suddenly there is a small small sapling.he too saw that.

HP ----- her you are . Dont water too much - the sapling will die. Dont water less. the sapling will die.

Give exact amount of water-- sapling will grow into a tree. He will soon start watering it,.you took 20+ year to grow a tree. IT will also take the same time to grow the new strong one which will keep all its birds( you, Mr.Nice and the kids) no matter what the speed of the wind is.

H_P, you will get Mr.Nice one day. THATS FOR SURE SURE SURE. SEE IT AS A TREE , YOU WILL GET PATIENT.

love
dhanush

Dhanush,
I'm glad I came back here before embarking on a busy day.

Your analogy is fantastic. Thanks so much for sharing it here. I'm truly speechless upon reading it!

It's helpful to read it, and realize all that this mess has been. The bitter fruits- bad seeds- very interesting, as was the rest.

I hope I get the formula correct for taking care of the tree. I am overly zealous,lonely for him, and wanting A LOT, but realistically I know I can't come on too strong or the tree will tumble and fall.

Somehow, I don't know why, but I'm reminded of that song- before your time but I think it was redone:

"Someone took the cake out in the rain, and I don't think that I can make it, 'cause it took so long to bake it, and I'll never have that recipe again..."

Enough singing on my part.

Take care and thanks again for a fantastic analogy. I'm going to print it up and place it in my journal.

God bless,
H_P

I just wanted to say that more fantastic progress was made today towards a reconciliation.

Basically the entire day was spent together, into the late evening--with our children and without them. Did I initiate the day? Yes. That's fine. It was a wonderful day, in every way. We talked completely honestly about everything, including the awful A. I learned more about what's been going on with him in his life these last few years-- a few surprises, but nothing that changes our plans or thoughts for the future. I so appreciate the complete honesty we shared, and will continue to share just as did up until I sunk into the A after 18 years of marriage.

We talked about when we reconcile/remarry some of the things we will change in our marriage to protect it from the harms we had earlier. (shared email address from now on, for one thing, more time together, recreational things, etc....)

I asked him for a hug while alone at his home early in the day, and got a few of them, and they were truly the best hugs of my life. It's hard to describe how wonderful all of this is making me feel. 'Just' hugs, but fantastic beyond anything I've experienced due to their meaning to me and him.

If you're struggling, hang in there. Things can turn around.

I was the WS, and he told me there was no way we'd ever work it out. Here we are, almost three YEARS after DDAy, 16 1/2 months after divorce, talking about remarriage in the near future.

All I know is that all is possible with God's help. Your help..all of you here at MB..has been invaluable, too. I couldn't have made it without all of you.

More news later,
H_P

<small>[ December 30, 2003, 01:57 AM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
ark

Thanks, Ark. I truly am so thankful that this is all happening!

Yesterday...to talk all day long about everything, and HOW we would go about reconciling.

We even drew up different possible plans on how to do it, and came up with one!

After wanting this for so long, it's truly beyond words to express how I feel.

Things can turn around! DDay-almost three years ago. Divorce final 16 months ago. What a journey it has been, and what a lot we've learned--with more to learn!

H_P

Golly, I just keep cheering back here in the peanut gallery! That's absolutely wonderful news, H_P!!

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

Hi H_P,

How is Christmas vacation going? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

You don't know how good it is to read your posts. You don't know how ready my fingers are to get rid of that darned exH and simply go to H when conversing with you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

If you don't mind, I am curious. What did he tell you that surprised you about him? I have my suspicions but I am really curious to see if I was even close.

I would caution you though, that he may well still have some issues to deal with regard to your A and how you treated him. But, it is clear that his love for you was still there, hence no other women. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

I am so happy that your patience has paid off and I look forward to hearing about the evolution and rebuilding of your marriage. Your posts make the holiday season something special.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
Good to finally hear from you! I wondered if you knew my good news.

There were some surprises, but in a way I had some feelings already all along and yesterday I told him I had a feeling there was this sort of surprise.

He is a very available man, and many have pushed to set him up. During our separation, before the divorce was final...he did date one woman a bit. It was all a 'blind' date sort of thing that he said he got 'roped into' I asked him blunt questions, and I got blunt answers- and I appreciate the honesty. He told me it was done mainly in his anger for my rejection of him, and I believe it and accept it. I told him it hit me in the gut, but I had to accept it and understand, and I did. Who am I to talk? We talked about it at length, and realized we both had blown our marital vows but we could rebuild and make it so much better. For him it only happened once. He ended it with the person as she was getting very pushy and attached after very few dates in but a very long time period, but there was closeness if you know what I mean. No love, he said , on his part..and I believe it. I was his only before this, but I messed up so I truly can't say anything. This is how life can go, and it's not too much to handle. Since then he's had many people wanting to set him up, but he's never gone out with anyone else. He's a great catch in every way. I feel very lucky he's not attached, and I've told him this over and over.

There is also someone he writes to ...email relationship...'friends', who lives far away but he's spoken with on the phone due to work. That contact is no longer necessary through work due to a change in his job title, but you know how networking can be. My DD had told me about this woman, but said the woman was 'married'. I was always suspicious of this whole thing, and confronted him a few times...as I did the dating issue, and it was always 'no'. Yesterday he was honest and told me she was not married, but divorced and was not encouraging him to reconcile with me. I kind of had a feeling this was going on somehow, and that this person was not helping things at all. He said he'd end it and I could watch him write a letter (email) to her.

On the one hand I'm glad to know he had some attachments to people as I left him in such a cold way. Do you know what I mean? I truly don't feel too much anger over it as it's all understandable. It makes me feel sickish, but I caused all of it. It never would have happened, from him, if I hadn't left him the way I did. He's willing to make our marriage the way I said it needs to be, to protect our marriage. We never had privacy in our marriage before the affair, and we won't now.

We've already said we'll have shared email addresses.

I told him that all contact with the long distance woman needs to stop, and he agreed to it. He said there wasn't much now, just emails occassionally. He said they weren't romantic, just friendly and helping..supporting in their concerns in personal lives. I also told him I wasn't thrilled that the woman he'd dated a bit here worked with him and he could, if possible, walk by her desk all the time..(another area of the company plant) , but that was life and I had to deal with it and understand that liason was two years ago, and ended about two years ago. Fortunately she wasn't married. I feel bad for the woman in a way, as it sounds like she was crazy about him, which is understandable. He was married though, so she really shouldn't have dated him..even though he was separated for a year at that point. I think that the fact that he didn't fall in love with her and marry her says something about him and me, especially knowing him well and that he doesn't take anything too lightly.

This long distance email thing is really rather silly but scary to me, but like I said to him if he really had interest he would have flown to meet her. He agreed to that, it was more on an outlet. He agreed to that the long distance email thing is just pure fantasy..silliness in a way. I wish he'd posted here instead of venting to this woman. (Just kidding, but you get my point)

I also told him the 'secret' of the SF between ExOM and me, and he said it relieved him a bit to know this is what went on.

So that's the surprise. So it goes.

Was this what you thought? There were other surprises, so maybe you did have it right even if it wasn't this one.

It's all stuff that was/can be easily handled. I told him exactly how I felt, and I was jealous but understanding of how he felt. That's it, and I won't dwell on it.

time to go now, no time to edit..sorry it's disjointed.
busy day...
HP

PS He said he feels responsible too for the A I had, and the climate in the marriage. I told him I took full responsibility, but we have learned from it and will rebuild a better marriage. He said he believed it could be...yes.

<small>[ December 30, 2003, 12:25 PM: Message edited by: hopeful_person ]</small>

H_P,

I had suspected other surprises, but I am actually very very happy to hear that he was with other women if even in cyber space. You may not realize this but the fact that he was, AND the relationships went nowhere is very good for you. What all of this means is that you did damage but apparently not really really deep damage to him. Second it also means that he was very careful with his heart and that no matter how badly you had failed him, he still would NOT give it away to someone else. In my mind, that says alot about him and his feelings for you, it is a good thing H_P.

Finally, you should be jealous. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It is good for you to realize who you almost lost. BUT, actually I think the "surprises" warrent a big sigh of relief rather than jealousy. However, hopefully in the future you will remember that you can and could lose him if you don't pay attention to him.

He KNOWS he can lose you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Has he mentioned what he fears yet? That seems to be the next step in you discovering who this man is that you are considering marrying.

I look forward to hearing from you H_P, this is really wonderful news. I am very happy for the both of you.

God Bless,

JL


PS: Have you considered going back to your first posts and reading them again?? It might be eye opening to step back in time just a bit. Not that your eyes aren't open now, but still it is good to see how far you have come emotionally not to mention with regard to your H, but I was really thinking of your personal status.

H_P I am so happy for you. You don't know how encouraging it is. Sometimes I feel like I'm in a loosing battle in hopes that my H will forgive me and we will be able to work things out. I keep saying to him and myself, no matter what he says to me that I am not going to give up on us. Thanks for showing me that you being patient really does work. I am never going to doubt that it may work out again. I am going to stay strong. Good luck and may God bless you and your family.