The feedback I have received in this forum has been extremely thought provoking, if nothing else. What a tangled web we weave, et al. Guess if being the OM was easy, everybody would be doing it. <P>Most of you offered me a blindfold, and last cigarette . . . while others appear to be genuinely concerned for my friend's wellbeing and perhaps, my own. For this, I thank you all. <P>Deception, lies, betrayal . . . trust ? All the insecurities that comes with human nature, I suppose. It really must seem rediculous for me to trust, and love, a woman who's world is so foreign to my own. Having never been married, or divorced (duh), my perception of what my friend is enduring while negotiating the end of a partnership is, admittedly, clouded. <P>The bottom line is, I am not fooling myself here at all. Those days of the virgin bride are lost to story books. She's no angel, and I sure as heck am no saint. <P>Question: Do you really think I am that stupid ? I am not seeking any semblance of a traditional relationship with my friend. Goodness knows, I do think that I may have a little more experience at dating single moms than most of you, and if nothing else, I am fully aware that this relationship of ours will not be a walk in the park. So many issues, hers as well as mine, will inevitably come into play. Your solution appears to be let the cards fall where they may, and for me to cease any and all communications whatsoever with her. This is neither what she wishes, nor do I feel more "manly" about covering my own tail. <P>There is no illusion of grandure here. No Knight in Shining Armour syndrome. You see, I am the guy most men hate. I am the guy who actually does believe in living one day at a time, and loving one day at a time. No contractual agreements. No guarantees. <P>I believe in love . . . and not property. I believe in forgiveness, and not condemnation. I believe in life everlasting, and a day. And I believe that I was born a sinner, and will die a sinner. <P>And I believe in love . . .

Hi Calrton<P>How about believing in "family" and innocent children. You know you are doing MWW wrong. You are here to learn how to keep her after she leaves. You know it is an uphill battle after she leaves. One thing you can count on is MWW will feel bad, she will feel the pain she has caused her H and children and believe me, you will not be able to fill the void MWW will cause to herself. You will also not be able to hang on to her as well. She will look at you in time as she looks at her current H. You live for "today" only but you will pay tomorrow. It is very sad that MWW children and H will also pay.<P>You are a bad person. You use this site to understand what MWW is going through. You are using this info to lure her into your arms and away from her family.

Calrton<P>Another point I feel the need to make.<P>A profile on you and just trying to understand.<P>You are a mature, intelligent and very succesfull person. You are a player of words and love. You are very resourcefull in obtaining whatever you want in the world. You have the means to obtain resources to help you achieve succuss. You are on a quest to have this MWW and you are just gathering resources to complete your quest.<P>You do see all sides of this complexe situation but always look out for # 1. You are goal driven and will not stop until you get what you want regardless of who you step on or hurt in the process.<P>You must see the pain of MWW's children and H this will cause. You must be able to see a fix or hope that MWW will be able to rebuild her marriage but you refuse to let MWW do whats right because it interferes with your quest.<P>Please try and convince me that what you are doing is right, not just right for you but right for MWW, her children and H.<P>Thanks

Just read your post and one little sentence jumped out at me. "You see, I am the guy most men hate."<P>Yea most men would hate you for destroying their marriages, taking their wives away from them, not allowing them to try to fulfill their wives needs. Most men would want nothing more than to make their wives happy and keep their familes together. I know that my H hated the other man because OM got something from me. Why not let H in on all of this, see how he feels, let him fix things he needs to work on to make his wife happy. Giving people and marriages a second chance is better than destroying a marriage and hurting innocent children and others.<P>Just my .02 cents worth

toronto> the traditional family no longer is a solution to the happiness we all seek. Once upon a time, in an agarian society, we truly needed the "normal" routine. But today, with our society evolving away from the rural farm communities to the more urban, technology-based workforce, the sense of family has to be increasingly flexible. By demanding tradition tends to be self-defeating.<P>hopeful> One man gathers what another man spills . . .

Carlton<P>You make me laugh. It's not about tradition. Are you saying that it is impossible for MWW to be happy with her current H because of todays society? Do you think it is too late for MWW to rebuild her marriage? Is it O.K. for OM to comfort a MW and lure her away from her family?<P>You are intelligent enough to help MWW in rebuilding her marriage but you seek to have her to yourself.<P>I agree with everything you said in regards to todays society BUT lets just look at this one issue. You see a MWW in pain and you have the knowledge that will give her a chance at saving her marriage. <P>What are you going to do?

I think you have indulged a bit too deeply in the theories of academia and have not worked side by side in the real world trenches of the practical.<P>Actions have consequences. Just denying them, does not make them not exist.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Carlton,<P>You are really a great piece of written work. Perhaps on the level of a composition Pablo Picasso.<P>After reading your vermiculated views and replys, I am convinced that this is all some sort of perverted game to you. It would seem you find all the comments either wry, or very amusing. ARE YOU SUPOSITIOUS? Your words are vapid and meaningless. You talk in circles like some nugatory politicians. <P>How very clever/sly of you! You have succeeded in gaining the uppermost focus on this sight, when those attentions should have been given to persons seeking legitimate <BR>recourse. YOU SEEK NO RECOURSE! YOU SEEK ONLY ATTENTION FOR YOURSELF VERY MUCH LIKE A CHILD! <P>[This message has been edited by ckasinec (edited September 15, 1999).]<p>[This message has been edited by ckasinec (edited September 15, 1999).]

Carlton - does your "friend's" husband know that he spilled? Maybe friends H doesn't realize that ne isn't meating her needs. Maybe if she posted here, let her feelings out, opened up to her H, he wouldn't be "spilling" and you'd be out of the picture and she wouldn't need a shoulder to cry on other than her H.

Carlton:<P>Reading your posts sicken me. You have such blatent disregard for people trying to piece together their shattered lives. My H is a cheater. His ow actually came to this site and sent me an appology trying to console her "guilt". I still doubt the affair is over. And fyi, I am trying my damnest to keep my marriage together but as long as the ow is in the picture, I'm basically doomed.<P>I think everyone here should boycott anymore of Carlton's posts. Why waste your time and energy responding to him when he clearly has no use for what we are trying to tell him?

go read what I wrote on your courage thread... and take my advice, please...<P>We are a tired bunch, Carlton. We're working at repairing our marriages and we don't need deep meaningful convos with the OM. If I wanted that I'd go talk to my OM. I want support and love from my freinds, betrayed and betrayers alike, who are going through what I'm going through. You have NO IDEA what I'm going through. <P>You make it easy to dislike you... you really do. Does that make you feel good? Makes me feel like crap and I'm tired... really tired.<P>Please do us all a favor and find a place where you can get the support you need. Really, it isn't here. I don't have the fight left in me. I want peace, you give me chaos.

"live for today" <BR>hey carlton, that's what my husband's very wise-older than me-single with 2 kids-alcoholic-proud to sleep around on her last husband's- mistress has told ME repeatedly. can i send you her name? im sure you would get along just fine <P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>

Bravo! <BR>I had to let you all know that you stood up for all the victims of infidelity.<BR>Carlton-your views are totally warped. You don't know a darn thing about what it's like to be on our end but believe me someday you probably will.All you are trying to do is ease your own guilty conscience by defending your actions. Believe me when I say this, you will live in this hell because what you are doing is immoral!!!!! You will have to answer for what you've done and you will keep paying while you are here on earth. I'm rooting for the W and praying that she will see the light and find her way back to her H. As for you, I'll pray for your soul.<P>"Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the kingdom of heaven? Don't fool yourselves, Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, thieves, greedy people-none of these will have a share in the kingdom of heaven?" <BR>"Run away from sexual sin! No other sin so clearly affects the body as this one does. For sexual immorality is a sin against your own body. Or don't you know that your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit, who lives in you and was given to you by God? You do not belong to yourself, for God bought you with a high price. So you must honor God with your body." Corinthians 6 verses 9 & 18. <BR>Believe me Carlton-I've read it front to back. If you care to know what your guilt is you just found out.