WW just left again. She came back once before for 2 days, this time lasted a week and 4 days. There won't be a next time. She will have to earn her way back. It should have been so to begin with...

Anyway, does this yo-yo action add to or subtract from the affair? Will being away from the OP make them that more attractive when they reunite? Does this add to the mistrust between the 2 since WW keeps coming home then leaving again? I set a time limit for her to come home the last time she left. October is the magic month. So, I guess she has about 10 months to figure out what she wants. I won't go through another Christmas and certainly not another New Years with this hanging over my shoulder....

lwh:

Have you read up on plan A/B?

Are you in counseling? Consider the Harleys or Cerri if you're not, because they can help you with the plans better than anybody.

This is script material. It's 2 early 2 give up hope.

-ol' 2long

Yep, happened to me. Too early to determine what it really means.

Get in touch with the Harleys or Cerri. They can definitely help determine what is going on.

<small>[ December 31, 2003, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: *Sparkle* ]</small>

Your wife is in huge conflict....

the good news is and the truth is that she is totally incapable of a healthy relationship with anyone right now...

her actions are actions that she does not like in herself right now....

her actions towards you, the children, the OM, and herself...keep her from engaging in any type of real interactions...

all she offers are misguided attempts to fill the void that has appeared in her life...
yet the filling is way to fleeting to sustain her and the truth is with her each night lays down her regardless of whom is next to her....

she is the living cliche..of no matter where you go to hide...there YOU are...

she is lost to herself...

and you lostwithouther stand at that point of being her lighthouse home....even though she creates the waves that block her vision from seeing that...

You become the lighthouse..you fill your home wiht light, calmness and sanctuary...

see just visualize yourself as a lighthouse... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Your offer her glimpses into that sanctuary at every chance you get...
you invite her towards it...let her know it is there as much as you can in a most subtle way....

she is untrustable right now...
but you know that...so she can't hurt you right now...she will spend great energy to convince others differently...but you know better...

you show her the path by also protecting the children from her...
set clear boundaries that the OM is not part of your childrens lives....
without lovebusting...
offer alternatives that let her see the children...but be clear that he is to have no access to them...
you fill the childrens lives with stability....they deserve it and need it more than anything else....

Do not discuss and or powerstruggle with her on her irrational movements...seek out and validate the rational ones with lots of praise for when she chooses correctly....

your wife is very lonely and sad right now..but that is OK...no one can stay very long in that chaos...it is wearisome to the soul...
and remove yourself from any aspect of participating or adding to her chaos...and eventually she will see that you are the only one...who stood with clarity and reason when she needed it most...


be the lighthouse.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
OK that's really out there I know....

strength to you..
ARkK

*ark, doll, you are so awesome*

lost-without-her, you will not read better words than what she just wrote to you.

I don't feel much like a lighthouse right now, but maybe an 'outhouse'! Just joking. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Thanks for the support.

Ark,

That was a very eloquent response but isn't that just Plan B in disguise? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Lwh,turn the light out for now and re-open maybe in the spring.You need some healing time right now of your own.

O

ark- that was awesome - you should post that all over the place. It is so hard to sit like a dummy while your spouse is "in love" with someone. Your words give me some hope.

I love the Lighthouse analogy!

And when you go to Plan B, your lighthouse goes "Dark", right? Did someone already write that? Well, anyway, it's worth repeating.

LWH,

You have a "PLAN" where as your WW doesn't. She's thrashing all over the place. Be consistent in your Plan, it'll carry you through this rollercoaster ride, guaranteed.

Jo

outhouse...ha ha that's funny...

be the outhouse...

nope...that position is filled already...OM <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I don't think plan b right now...

there's nothing she would want more is to hold in her hand...tangible words that she will twist in to being forced too choose...

Man she would take a plan b and run with it..
all the waffling she did up till leaving today....
all the doubt...

she took the easy way out again...going to the only person who will not judge her and her actions and will rationalize that she is doing the right thing...
that's easy...and it's all built on a false foundation...she knows it....

go dark for a few and lick your wounds...
then come back strong, stable logical and kind...

ark

<small>[ December 31, 2003, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

ooh. I have to disagree ark.I think LWH *needs a Plan B right now.He has been doing his best to accomodate his WW but honestly,WW is off again and he is all Plan A'd out I think.Like you said though,he should go dark.

This is about reserving his strength and sanity for the next round of events.There is a time to say enough,I need a break for myself.That is what I would do in his shoes.She may run with the Plan B or not but she is also just as undecided as ever.

JMHO. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

O

Octobergirl,
I'm thinking along your same lines. Actually, I'm doing ok with W being gone. I am almost relieved because I was on the rollercoaster of not knowing if she were going to stay or leave. I am in a better position than WW is now though. Because I am back to where I was before only better off because I have plan A'd her for a short amount of time. I know I've put more doubts in her head and she knows where my heart is. Now she has to go back and deal with that plus what she was dealing with before she came back. She is surely more confused now than she was before, whereas, I am more in control of myself and emotions. I guess I feel I am more in the drivers seat now than ever before. 2004 will be a good year for me regardless of what she does....

YAY! Good for you Lwh.

It's just the place I have reached too.It is empowering,if only a little.You have stepped of the crazy train and can take a breather.And each day that I am in this Plan B,I feel even more stronger and more stable.

Sometimes, there isn't the opportunity to do a really long Plan A for our WS but I am not so sure that it always matters just how long you do it as opposed to doing a good one and letting the WS know just what our intentions are.You have done that admirably for sure and you made it abundantly clear to her as well.But there comes a time when you start giving too much of yourself away and that is when I had to say enough to my WH and I went into Plan B.

I too am determined to make 2004 better for me and my girls despite what WH decides to do from now on.I am less and less disinterested BUT if WH came back and was ready to make me the priority and our marriage first,I could easily think it over and decide if it was in MY best interest.Therein lies the big change in who holds the reins.

O <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Plan B would mean NO CONTACT...NONE...nadda...

I think he should have contact in regards to the children..
in regards to verbalizng concern about her..

I am not talking about pursueing her with relationship talk by anymeans...

but I also don't think a plan b letter would be a good idea...
she is dying for anyone else to force her to decide...
his turning his back on her will help villify her even more...to the point she will become only worthy of the OM...her twisted thinking...

I am not saying that she is not in control of her choices or actions...or that lostwithouther is either...(responsible for her bad choices..)

I am saying he wants her to have glimpses of his stability and belief in her as person...
trying to find themselves...and there way home...

plan b offers no glimpses....
none...

so i am not saying some mushy pleading begging chasing plan ;...but not completely dark and hidden and feeding into her abandonment...

something subtle and modified and somewhere in between there...

and still say nothing nothing nothing in writing....no proclamation of holding onto what love is left...
don't give her any insight or answers in to how you feel about this...

ARK

Ark,

Are you upset with me? Hope not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I still think that a Plan B letter would be the right thing.I am in Plan B too and still have to discuss childrens matters but there are ways to do that without being in direct contact.

And I don't think he would be turning his back on WW.A PBL is all about turning off the supply of indecision for HIM.Lwh has made it very clear how he feels about his WW and how she can make her way back to him.He hasn't slammed any doors shut.But his WW is just as undecided as ever and she needs to see HIM as a beacon of strength and how better to do that now but to show her he will not continue to be her doormat and she has more than once wiped her feet on him as she was LEAVING.Also a Plan B letter, if written correctly, is very loving and understanding of WS actions but is also supporting the BS and the NEED to break away from the hurtful and destructive perpetuated actions of an indecisve WS.

A PBL also doesn't force her to decide one way or another so much as it shows her that she CANNOT continue to come and go as she PLEASES in his life,hurting him and his kids.Plan B is about taking care of him,getting some distance.If Plan B offered no hopeful glimpses,I seriously doubt it would be part of Dr.Harleys recovery process,agree?


O

I believe that you should write your WW a letter expressing your dismay over her decision to leave for the OM once again. Tell her that coming home is no longer an option, as I feel that she will fight to come home if she feels that you have taken the control away from her. Hold your ground and be prepared for the worst.

Wow, thanks for all the advice. I gave my WW the plan B letter when I first went into plan B long ago. I told her the same things apply now. She has the list of conditions that must be met to come home. I reemphasized to her when she left, that those conditions "will not" be compromised again, if she decides she wants to return. mfisher1967, I don't feel that that reverse psychology will work and I don't want to try to manipulate her return. She has her demons to conquer and she needs to do that on her own terms, before ever trying to come back again.

Right now I just want to get my life back into some sort of normalcy. My girls and house are my priorities. And making a little money on eBay! The holidays have put me into a bad position with my diet, so that has to be another priority again. I don't want to gain all that weight back that I lost because of all this. There are good things that have come about because of all of this. I am going to relax and let myself not 'worry' so much for awhile....

Tell her that coming home is no longer an option, as I feel that she will fight to come home if she feels that you have taken the control away from her. Hold your ground and be prepared for the worst.
If he says she can’t come home, how is that going to repair the marriage? Usually, a married couple lives together.

Also, if he says she can’t come home and they do reconcile and then he lets her come home, how could she believe him in anything else?

That's what I'm thinking Chris...
her letter, her recent return home...full of chaos, indecision...

and again in my opinion took the easy way out...fleeing to OM....the only one who will not hold her accountable for anything...

dang I would love to live with someone for whom I felt no accountability...and made everything I did right.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> who wouldn't???
But that doesn't make one feel better...

And remember that while plans/b makes sense to people here...that a plan b letter right now to her...would in my opinion just be confusing...

she leaves her family for the other man...to her it appears she has stated she has chosen him over the family and husband...
so for you lonelywithouther to send a letter that pretty much says what she has done...
it may just reinforce with her that you don't listen or "hear" her....

If you go total plan B...she has no access to you and your sanctuary...

what she does have is the feeling that reinforces she is as bad as she feels...
not worthy of anyone else on the other planet except the (outhouse) OM...

cut her off completely and she has no where else to turn....but towards him....

She doesn't like what she is doing...
she isn't happy there....
she isn't happy with what SHE alone is doing to herself and her family...she does need to stew in that for a bit....BUT if you don't show her some path towards something else...

some noble path of finding her way out of the hole SHE is and has dug...the abnormal will become the normal for her....and she will learn to live with hating herself....

This is not to say that plan b is not an extremely valueable plan or to judge others in plan b...

I am not suggesting by a long shot that you wine and dine and attempt to romance her....
you need clear boundaries that protect you and the children...BUT I wouldn't waste energy and time sharing the boundaries with her persay...I would just have them....gaurding you...

lostwithouther...I hope that what I am saying is not getting lost in the delivery....

my concern is your going totatlly dark in plan b...will make it easier for her to justify her behavior...this does not mean I take any responsibility off of her for her actions ....they are and will always be hers...
but she has isolated herself so that she has no one showing and reminding her what healthy choices are and how to make them...
you may be her only path to those things....

I am not suggesting you be her educator...I am suggesting you become solid and dependable...and stay on her radar...
not fighting with her..
not power struggling...
just there...like the lighthouse... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

She and the OM can not escape the chaos...not in any activity..
not watching tv together.
not eating meal together
not going somewhere together..

because they are the creators of the chaos...
they are the orchestrators....
they turn to eachother because each is a mirror of the others painful actions...
emptyness and shallowness touches all the do...

continue to fill your world with stability and real joy and love of life...

focus on you and the girls...
like you are....but let her see the light now and then....
ARK

ark^^

Thanks again for your advice. I'm not sure exactly what I am going to do at this point. Right now I feel better than I have for a very long time. I don't know why either. I'm either going through some sort of withdrawal from her or I'm healing. I'm not sure which. I don't feel as hurt, as angry, as fear stricken as when she was back home. I almost feel like there is a huge relief right now. I don't know if this feeling will last, but I want to ride it as long as I can. I feel that I have done a pretty good job in letting W know how I feel and now she has to figure out what it is she wants. Like I had said before, I feel I am in a much better position knowing I gave her the knowledge that I am willing to work, forgive, and be a better person for her. I think she is now in a worse position now than when she came home. Because she knows these things, I think she may now have doubts in her head along with the doubts she already had that brought her home to begin with. I think she is in some serious chaos right now and I would certainly love to be a lighthouse to her. I think she feels that she has already dealt with her feelings and the OM is where she wants to be, but in reality, she will continue to feel guilt and depression and she won't know why. Eventually, she will come back or OM will give up on her and she will really have to deal with her inner problems. I may be wrong in my feelings, but I think I'm pretty close to the mark. At least I hope so. Again, thanks for the advice and support. I hear what you are saying and again, I'm not sure what I'll do at this point...