That OM is a jerk and doesn't hold her in high esteem??

She has tried to break off the relationship 3 times.

The first, he sent her a love letter afterwards to try and keep things going.

The second time he told her (she is 37) about a young 25 year old that wanted to have sex. He said that the only thing stopping him was his love for her... By the way. This happened the exact day after she gave him a letter breaking things off. If it wasn't a lie then what stopped him before? (He told her that he has known her for quite some time). Quite the co-incedence eh??? She still believes him tho.... CRAP!!

The 3rd time he seemed to accept things... then he started calling me at home. I am unemployed currently and dialing *69 show that he is calling from a phone booth near his work. He calls her a whore and a slut to me... but since I can't prove it what can I do?? He claims that they have had sex... she says they have not. He claims they are meeting early in the morning (I can't verify cuz I have an 8 year old to get to school) and she does go in to work early (around 6:00 am). He called and told me he wanted me to know what I was up against and then came out and called her a liar about things that have happened.

Still, after discussing these things with her, she feels that he is just confused and going thro a hard time.

AAIIRRGGHH!!!!

How can she be so blind. OR is she lying to me??

Now granted it is her fault for continuing things... but, how can she not connect the events.

I am a Christian. I would NEVER call someone I love a Whore or a Slut. Not a possibility.

I know that he is not the person that she thinks that he is.

How or can I make her see this??? OR Do I let her find this out on her own??

<small>[ January 01, 2004, 09:46 PM: Message edited by: Golum ]</small>

I feel your pain. My W is in an affair and let me tell you, there's nothing you can say to change their minds. In fact, arguing with them seems to draw them closer to the other person. All you can do is express your pain about the affair and try to plan A her as much as possible. The other person may be a total scum bag, but when someone meets your spouses needs, that person becomes the greatest person in the world. My WW's OM is a real winner. He has had many affairs on his wife and recently she divorced him. He left his wife several times for months on end without a word or child support for his 2 kids. He let his wife pay for his truck and he lost that in the divorce. I think my wife actually helped him buy a beater car so he could get to work. She has tried to leave him 2 times already but she is blinded by the addiction of the affair and goes back. So, is there anything you can do? Sure. Have you read the articles on this site? Have you read the book, Surviving an Affair? Read and learn as much as you can about affairs. Then believe what you read and don't tell yourself your wife is different. Do what the book and this site says to do and don't stray from it. Don't let your friends or family deter you from doing what is written. Keep posting and reading. There are some great minds here, I'm not one of them, but you will get some good advice. Try to post to TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN, JOHNH36, and REDHAT. They are all veterans here and have some great info. I hope you all the best. Take care and keep us posted..

Oops, its JOHNH39 and not JOHNH36. My bad.

Golum,

How are you doin in plan A ?. This is OP scripts !. They try to drive a wedge in your M, don't fall into it. Just wrote down all the info and don't use this info against your WW. Later when you recover your M you could ask her about it. By then it might not be matter no more.

Next time he calls, listen and told him that you know everything and your dear W told you everything then hung up. Contact your phone company rep. and tell them what happen (harrasing calls).

-rh-

Golum, how far are you from D-Day and how long have you been in Plan A?

The way that she needs to break off contact is to send him a no contact letter telling him that she loves her H and wants to work on her marriage. She then tells him to NEVER contact her becuase it will interfere with the recovery of her marriage. If he contacts her after that point, she should just hang up the phone. If it continues, she can contact the police and get a restraining order.

The WORST THING you can do is to berate the OM right now. Don't say a WORD about him. Every word you say only makes her DEFEND him more. As long as you say anything about him, she will be so busy defending him that she won't be able to see for herself what he really is. So GET OUT OF HER WAY, GOLUM!

Now, if you find out that contact has continued, you need to start seriously thinking about moving to Plan B at some point in the future. But for now, concentrate on executing a GOOD Plan A, with no lovebusters and NO bad mouthing of the OM, ok? That is where you start.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Golum:
[QB]

The 3rd time he seemed to accept things... then he started calling me at home. I am unemployed currently and dialing *69 show that he is calling from a phone booth near his work. He calls her a whore and a slut to me... but since I can't prove it what can I do??</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get a recorder from Radio Shack and put it on your phone.

I would also find out if she is seeing him in the mornings. You can easily find this out by following her or by calling her office. Even if you have to hire a P.I. it would be worth it.

What was his point in calling you and telling you all this? Did he say?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What do I do? I want to F*&$## scream at him and her. He is a principal at an elementary school. I want to go there and ruin his life. I want to contact his wife but I don't want to make someone else go thru the hell that I have been thru.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Golum, hopefully you have rethought this position and have warned this man's wife of his affair. There is so much that you could be doing to end this affair and are not doing. I would STRONGLY SUGGEST that you get that tape recorder and try to get him on tape.

I would also suggest that you contact his wife, if you have not, and tell her what is going on. You should be doing EVERYTHING in your power to end this affair, especially EXPOSING IT. You should be doing everything short of taking out a billboard.

Tell his wife about the affair but take with you concrete evidence to show her such as any recorded telephone conversations he's had with you or your W. Often a BS will simply not take the word of a stranger over their spouse's, so it's crucial that you have solid evidence in order for her to accept that her H is cheating on her with your W.

Golum

Contacting his W is not causing her pain. He is doing that. Her M is already wounded by his actions. Just as yours is by your WW. She needs to know. I also agree with recording his phone calls to you. Your WW needs to hear what he is saying about her.

Things will get better but only when NC is established. Just keep trying to meet her EN's. Some of it does get through.

Just so you all know the current standings...

Plan A seems to be going really well. We have NC since Nov 18th. I haven't had a call since Dec. 17th. Thoughout this whole thing my WW has been very open about all that is going on and he knows that. WW is a teacher and has been at home since Dec 19th so I am 99% sure that NC is in effect since then and I 90% sure that NC has actually been in effect since Nov 18th.

Also W is much more affectionate to me. We have had many good talks and she honestly seems to be moving past him. She has never gone out of her way to contact him... he has always been the one doing the contacting. She just can't give me a firm answer on how she react to seeing him again.

My concern is this. Before we had NC OM would go out of his way to go by WW's work. Once WW starts school again, next week, OM might start dropping by again. It would make things sooo much easier if WW could see thru her fog and understand that the things that OM is doing apply to his core character. WW simply thinks that OM is confused. Um... NO!! In my mind if OM was confused he wouldn't/couldn't call for weeks and call WW names to me. OM also wouldn't call WW a liar. Yes, OM is trying to break us up... but WW still thinks that he is a GREAT guy.

I didn't contact OMW yet because I figured this... If I put up with his calls OM would ignore my W and she could start healing. If I had called OMW my thinking is then he would have started working on my W again. I have decided that if anything happens past now, contacting the OMW is the first thing that I will do.

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 11:40 AM: Message edited by: Golum ]</small>

Golum, as long as you refuse to contact his wife, this will probably keep occurring. There is really nothing we can do if you refuse to take steps to stop the man. I am sure he realizes that he can do whatever he wants because you won't stop him. Why would he end contact with your wife? Who is going to stop him?

I would also add that you have a moral responsibility to warn this woman that she is being destroyed behind her back. She needs to know what is going on in her life so she can protect herself and her children from him. But since no one will expose this man, he can just continue to destroy other families as he has yours.

I am just aghast that a school principal is allowed to get away with this. You are essentially ENABLING this man by helping to conceal his corrupt, probably illegal behavior. Your wife is a subordinate and that makes his actions SEXUAL HARRASSMENT.

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 12:18 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong>Your wife is a subordinate and that makes his actions SEXUAL HARRASSMENT. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Whoa - Golum!

Is Mel right? Is your wife a teacher at his school? I didn't get that from your other info.

If this is the case, you are a powerful man. Please clarify this.

Hold on.....

He is a principal at another school... She started working at his school this fall for 2 weeks but then got moved to a different school. They have known each other for a LONG time (almost 11 years) and had taught at the same school before he became a principal. It was when she was moving away that he made his move and started this whole thing.

Keep in mind that I WILL contact his wife if anything new happens. Like I said... the reason that I let him continue his attacks on me was that it seemed to be a really good diversion. While he was bugging me he left her TOTALLY alone.

Why are you waiting to contact his wife? She still needs to know and you still need to stop him from pursuing your wife and calling your house. This affair should be exposed. He should be exposed. If the school board knew that he was having affairs with teachers, his reputation would be ended. Why won't you expose this affair? It can only help your situation and would be the right thing to do.

I guess I don't understand why you are protecting this man.

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Hey Golum

He's a principal, then you do have other options. If he continues the contact why not report the problem to the School Superintendent and/or School Board. You really do have a responibility to inform his wife also. She needs to know to fight for her M, as well as make it harder for her WH to continue the pursuit. Also if he is calling and harassing you at home, document it and file charges against him with the police. He is harassing you. He is a pimple that needs popped.

Record his calls to you. He's a predator and needs exposed.

I have already decided that after contacting the wife... if anything new happens that the school board and the superintendant are the next contactees.

Now, from my understanding of SAA, it is not required to inform the OMW... it is a personal choice and that is why I haven't contacted her yet. It is something that has always been STRONGLY considered... but I really think that my situation is different from a lot others.

I caught the affair REALLY early... I'm talking the day that he made his move I found out. My wife CAN NOT lie. Her eyes are a doorway to her soul and I have been able to tell every time.... so I basically know everything as long as I asked her the right questions. Throughout this whole thing she, it appears, has known what the right thing to do was and has (mostly) done it. Thier contact has been really limited. I track her hours at work and know this for a fact. She has been REALLY good at calling and letting me know where she is through out the day. She has only had personal private contact twice... tho each time turned into a date instead of the break off event that it was supposed to be. She knows that he has some "unknown" power over her and is making sure to not see him. Because of this she had agreed (and held to it) inacting plan A. She has read SAA and is currently reading His Needs/Her Needs.

Again... my question and concern is how to get her to see what type of jerk this guy is so that IF he gets her in private somehow (she says that she would leave, but who knows) she has the ability to fight him off. She has SOOOO much respect for him... actually EVERYONE that I have met who knows him also respects him VERY highly. If he shows up before other people get in to her school how do I empower her to stand her ground or control herself??
OR can I?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Golum:
<strong>

Again... my question and concern is how to get her to see what type of jerk this guy is so that IF he gets her in private somehow (she says that she would leave, but who knows) she has the ability to fight him off. She has SOOOO much respect for him... actually EVERYONE that I have met who knows him also respects him VERY highly. If he shows up before other people get in to her school how do I empower her to stand her ground or control herself??
OR can I? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You can't empower her to do what she doesn't want to do. She has the ability to fight him off now and always has. He has no motivation to stop because no one has the courage to stop him. [evil thrives when good men stand silent?]

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have already decided that after contacting the wife... if anything new happens that the school board and the superintendant are the next contactees.

Now, from my understanding of SAA, it is not required to inform the OMW... it is a personal choice and that is why I haven't contacted her yet. It is something that has always been STRONGLY considered... but I really think that my situation is different from a lot others.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">First off, we are not telling you to tell the OMW, because it is some "requirement" in some book. We are telling you to do it because you have a moral responsibility to warn a woman she is being destroyed behind her back. You have a moral requirement to warn her. The second reason is that it will probably end the affair very quickly.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but I really think that my situation is different from a lot others.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, your situation is different. EVERY SITUATION IS DIFFERENT! However, the principles are ALWAYS THE SAME. The only difference in your situation is that YOU HAVE ALL THE POWER but refuse to exercise it.

What I mean by that, is that exposure of YOUR "different" situation would bring this all to a crashing halt VERY QUICK. Just a phone call to his wife would probably scare the man SO BADLY that he would stop this. But as it is, you are his best friend because you are literally ENABLING this creep by protecting his secret.

He has probably been doing this for YEARS to other subordinates because others have not exposed him. Having affairs with teacher indicate that he is not fit to be the principal of ANYTHING. What he is doing is SEXUAL HARRASSMENT. Why are you helping him conceal his secret?

Golum, that is all I am going to say about it. You have a very powerful weapon in your hands and you refuse to exercise it for some strange reason. There is nothing more that I can do to help you if you refuse to help yourself.

MelodyLane,

I appreciate your feedback but I am not certain if you are understanding where things are right now.

I can't do something to a man now who could have decided to drop the whole thing. Granted, I can see your point and I should have contacted his wife long ago when things were happening. Alas hind sight is 20/20.

He is not sexually harassing her since she doesn't work for him. She did for 2 weeks, but he didn't make a move on her until she had been working at a different school for a couple of weeks.

She has currently had no contact for nearly 2 months... I haven't heard from him in nearly 3 weeks. So theoretically we could never hear from him again.

My questions here aren't to stop something that is happening... it is more to know if there are steps that I can take to get her thru withdrawal or is that something that she has to do on her own.

Just so you know, my blinders are off and at the first sign of ANYTHING his wife and others will be the first to know.

<small>[ January 04, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Golum ]</small>

Golum,

You are not hearing what Melody and the others have been saying to you.

True, the OM may no longer be in contact with your W. I hope that's the case and it stays that way, but by informing the OM's W you can buy yourself some insurance.

More importantly, you will be helping the OM's W. How do you know the wayward principal hasn't already moved on to fresh prey?? Sure, it may not affect you but what about his W? She has a right to know! You already know this guy is a creep and I'll bet tomorrow's lunch your W wasn't his first.

By witholding this information from her you are enabling his adulterous activities. In all states it is a crime to not report a crime. Adultery is not a crime, legally, but ask yourself how you feel about that having been through it yourself. How would YOU feel if one day down the road you started to get ill only to find out you have HIV???? After being a trusting and faithfull spouse all of your life???

You could literally SAVE HER LIFE by telling her what the wonderful principal has done.

Think about it.

<small>[ January 04, 2004, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: getting better ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Golum:
[QB]

I can't do something to a man now who could have decided to drop the whole thing. Granted, I can see your point and I should have contacted his wife long ago when things were happening. Alas hind sight is 20/20.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wait a minute. You are not "doing something" to him, he has done that with his chosen behavior. You would simply be EXPOSING HIM. And as long as you PERSIST in protecting him, he has no reason to stop. You are essentially aiding and abetting him.

It matters NOT AT ALL if he has dropped the whole thing, what counts is that it was done and could very well continue if not stopped. Nor has he stopped as far as you know. Or you wouldn't be here asking us how to help her repel him if you believed that.

You have no assurances that he will stop and, frankly, WHY WOULD HE? You aren't going to stop him so he knows he can do WHATEVER HE WANTS with your wife. He can even call you up and rub your nose in it.

Nor does it matter at all to his wife if he has stopped. She still lives with a predator and no one will warn her. She still has to know so she can take steps to protect herself. And so she can take steps to stop him from doing this again. If a bank is robbed, it doesn't matter if the robber has given up the lifestyle, the bank still needs to know who the robber is and the robber still has to be brought to justice.

What are you so scared of?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is not sexually harassing her since she doesn't work for him. She did for 2 weeks, but he didn't make a move on her until she had been working at a different school for a couple of weeks.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now you are making excuses for him. Are you on YOUR SIDE or his side??

[p.s. she is still a SUBORDINATE teacher in the same school district and if he would do this to one teacher, he would do it to another]