ok, Golum, here are my suggestions and then I will step away from this thread because it makes me livid to see you carry water for this man. I only wish you showed the same consideration for his victims.

You have enormous power in your hands that you are not using. You could put a quick end to this affair, while warning his victims, with very little effort on your part and very little fuss with only 2 little phone calls. It is so easy if you will just do it:

1. Call his wife tomorrow and tell her the whole story. Send her to Marriage Builders for help

2. Call him at work IMMEDIATELY afterwards and tell him that you have informed his wife of his affair and that IF HE EVER EVER contacts your wife or you for ANYTHING or EVER EVER goes around her that you will tell the School Board, the Superintendent and the local newspaper about his affair. END OF STORY.

If your wife finds out about this threat, then you will have PROOF POSITIVE that he has been in touch with her and can follow through on your threats. I am betting that he will be too afraid to contact her. If he does contact her, then you will know that he is so craven and unashamed that he is hardly fit to be a principal anyway.

Golum,

Melody gave you excellent advice.

What about her advice do you not understand???

Golum

Contact OM W. You are putting off one of the most important aspects of recovery for both your marriage and for the W of OM. Right now she thinks everything is fine. It's not and she needs to know this so that she can take steps to heal her marriage. Also OM may start visiting your W again. Then what???

You are setting yourself up for failure by not taking charge and doing what numerous people who have many years of experience dealing with these issues have told you straight out to do. You are afraid to rock the boat because someone may get upset. So instead of dealing with the situation you rationalize it all away. Foolish thinking on your part. Now get off of your behind and fight to save your marriage.

Beau

<small>[ January 04, 2004, 08:20 PM: Message edited by: SonofWF ]</small>

Ok... I've gotten several responses saying only to let the OMW know about the affair.

Does anyone have anyother input??

Take the first step.

Beau

Golum - I'm one of the loudest advocates here that it is imperitive to notify the OP's spouse - in on going affairs. My view on this is primarily strategic - exposure on both sides gives twice the opportunity for the affair to end by the means of exposure. The secondary reasons - for me - are the health and moral ones. Some here place these reasons higher. Usually all these reasons are in alignment because rarely is the affair over when the BS thinks it is.

So, if the affair is over, truly over, I don't necessarily advocate notifying the OP's spouse if there is ANY chance doing so might be counterproductive to YOUR desired end - saving YOUR marriage. I think you can be selfish here - saving YOUR marriage is more important - first - than informing the OP's spouse what he/she has a right to know. Once the danger of harming your recovery is passed - and usually in concert with the no contact letter to the OP - then I believe the priority shifts and the health/moral reasons become more important.

In your case - I can't remember if a no contact letter has been delivered - you seem fairly confident that the affair is over. My view is that you can't be sure UNTIL a NC letter is written, you see it, and it's sent such that you're confident it gets delivered. Confirmed receipt certified mail is not unreasonable. IF, at that point, your wife STILL objects to notifying OM's wife - I'd be suspicious of her sincerity. It's typical of truly remorseful WSs to be SO incredulous with the former OPs that exposure to their spouse is gleefully sought! Not unanimous, typical.

So, my bottom line for you: no NC letter - the affair is still viable, inform your wife, in the most non-threatening way possible, that you're gonna tell OM's wife unless she writes the NC letter. Period. Once that's done and you're SURE it's over, I'll bet your wife wants to spill the beans more than you do.

Summary: it's a strategic decision first, a health/moral one second.

JMHO. I understand not everyone here will agree with this.

WAT

At last !!!

Someone that I can relate to.

No-one else has asked about the "NC letter" and of course with this being my first time dealing with this type of thing, I forgot to mention it.

Just to re-iterate... She has done a NC letter. From all I have seen she has not had contact since Nov 18th. I can guarantee NC since Dec. 19th.

After he started calling me I told my wife. She was VERY supportive of contacting his wife. In fact she wanted to go and confront him herself... I had to talk her out of that one since I didn't want the snake to have any chances with her. I made the choice not to contact his wife since I figured that I was a diversion and he would ignore her while bugging me. Bad choice?? I don't know. But my greatest hope is that during that time she was able to grow closer to me... seeing (she says that she believes me) what he is actually capable of. The local police, by the way, state that I need to handle it on my own until he makes threatening statements OR he has harrassed more then 1 month.

Still, tho, she feels that he is not psycho just going throught a mid-life crisis or a hard time.

Our relationship has definately grown closer with the current events.

This, in reality, is my question.

Can I help her see the jerk that he is???
Or must I wait and let her find these things out on her own.

<small>[ January 05, 2004, 05:12 PM: Message edited by: Golum ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Golum:
<strong>She has done a NC letter.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Did you see it?

Did you see it mailed?

Did it say that unless OM informs his wife by {date} that your wife/you would by {date + one week}?

How long has it been for ANY contact from either source, to the best of your knowledge?

When the time is right, I recommend BOTH you and your wife sign a letter you write to OM's spouse. This will be your moral obligation.

WAT

In response..

Yes I did see it... we wrote it together.

Yes, I'm the one that mailed it.

Um, No it didn't include informing the OMW. It did state that she did not want ANY contact from him... be it email, in person, letters or phone calls.

When you say any source I assume my wife contacting him or him contacting her. I can guarantee NC since Dec 19th. I am 99% sure of NC since Nov 18th.

In the end, you still advocate informing the OM's spouse? If so then my question would be this. If this is indeed his ONLY affair ever, is it really the moral or ethical thing to do and inform the OMS? That is my greatest problem, in my current situation, with informing the OMS. What if this man is actually a good man who has made a bad choice? What if he would never do this again? From the things that I have heard from my wife, that is what she believes. Now, his calls don't quite make me believe that .... but when we talk about affairs here we make it seem like an addiction. What if that very addiction drove him to do the calls?

These very questions are what make it SOOOO hard to call the OMW (at this point). Anything else happens and then the gloves are off.

So, then. back to my question. As far as MB is concerned... can I only meet her EN's? Or is there some other steps I can do to bring our relationship closer?

As far as MB is concerned... can I only meet her EN's?
Do you mean can only YOU meet her needs? Anyone she has contact with can fill some of her needs.
But the whole idea is to not get in to situations where people are filling your needs to the detriment of your relationship. And for this, it's gonna take time for both of you to figure out exactly how to do it.

Or is there some other steps I can do to bring our relationship closer?
Yes, practice MB principles.

AAiigghh... I really suck at writing my thoughts down...

What I meant is, other then me meeting her emotional needs is there other things that I can do. Are her EN's the only things that people have found that can bring people back together??

I know, I know... people keep telling me to tell the OMW. But for me that won't happen quite yet.

My wife tells me that she loves me more then him... and that she wants to grow old with me. If this IS the case then is just meeting her EN's & NC going to solve our problems??

Anything else?? Are En's enuff??

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Golum:
<strong>Are her EN's the only things that people have found that can bring people back together??
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Almost. They're the only things that can KEEP people together.

Will your wife register and post on this forum? Is she willing to identify herself as YOUR wife???

This is not a litmus teat, but a vote of confidence. If she's sincere, I, for one, will welcome her with hope and respect. If she can face you with sincerity, she should be able to face me. Ask her for me.

WAT

K... So she says that she isn't comfortable posting here. Thoughts?? Maybe if I can get her to read the site for a while and realize that she won't be attacked??

So Golum - has anything changed since you last posted?

Please describe your W's demeanor. Any contact with OM? OM's W?

WAT

WOW... that was fast.

Her demeanor really hasn't changed. She has been REALLY loving and seems sincere about things.

This last week, I am in Portland OR, we had a big freeze and so schools were closed all week. SO I know that there was no contact during the week. The only weird thing that happened was that a co-worker called her on Sunday and asked if she was coming in that day. I know who it was because I did a star 69 and got his number and looked it up.

I am starting to seriously bend towards talking to the OMW (just for tracking things). Then I could actually find out when he leaves for work and if they are meeting in the morning, I don't think that they are but who really knows. I don't want to give her too much trust too soon.

KEEP IN MIND.... nothing that she has done causes me to worry... it has more to rebuilding my trust. I can guarantee NC for since Dec 19th.

OK, what have you told her about this site and what are her "uncomfortable" feelings? If it's just the obvious - guilt - please tell her that there are MANY here in her situation. In fact, I believe there are more female WSs than male here.

Is it that she won't post, or won't even visit?

I suggest you locate the Emotional Needs questionaire here, print it out - two copies - and give her one. You fill out the other and give it to her.

Browse around for other articles, posts, etc. and print out ones that you feel she may relate to. Give them to her.

Golum: here's some stuff that you may find informative.

Her: If this is from that site, I told you it makes me feel uncomfortable.

Golum: I understand your feelings and based on what others have said, that's a very, very normal reaction. How 'bout I save them for you - perhaps you'll be more ready in a few days?

Do you have a copy of Surviving An Affair, by Harley? If not, get one. They're available in the bookstore area of this site or most on-line booksellers. When you get it and after you read it, leave it laying around the house. She'll look at it eventually.

WAT

Now...

She has read both SAA and His needs/Her needs.
We also have both filled out the Needs worksheets and had some good discussions about them.

I think that yes, guilt and shame are the main reasons for her not wanting to post.

OK, has she been sincere? What was her reaction to SAA?

Now, for a very important question: what's the likelihood she will encounter OM on the job? Please remind me - did she send a NC letter?

WAT

Hmmm... I really can't say on sincere. I think that she is...

She responded VERY well to SAA... and after we filled out the needs forms has been trying (at least I see it this way) to meet the needs at the top of my list (which is GREAT since sex is at the top) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . AND we have had some VERY good talks.

A NC letter was sent. The chances of her seeing OM at work are slim but existent. He works at another school, BUT does come to hers for meetings once every couple of weeks. Chances are good that when he is at her school that she would be in a class full of kids. IF they do meet it would be in a crowded situation... The ONLY times that she claims that they have met privately were after work... if that helps at all. It really all depends on if he will not go out of his way to see HER.

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 06:53 PM: Message edited by: Golum ]</small>

OK, Golum - that all sounds good. But it makes me wonder why she is still reluctant to visit this forum. Perhaps she will eventually. Maybe you should gently prompt her once in a while - possibly relating that there are LOTS wackier stories here! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Ultimately, we will badger you about telling OM's W. Some may argue that it would be better for your W to inform OM's W. But that risks her making contact with OM.

Keep doing what you're doing, but always be on the lookout for a relapse. Patience, time, consistency.

WAT