Well fifteen YES 15 months later, can anyone believe I have been in this turmoil for 15 months? I have become comfortably
numb <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> and it is gotten to a point I don't care, but here is a little last minute question.

WS spent Thanksgiving and Christmas with OW, he contacted me several times and each time I have asked him to stay with her <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> , to just let me be and give me the opportunity to find happiness. Currently I am terribly confused about my feelings and everything that has happened since Sept "02. I wanted to enter 2004 full of hope, with family and friends and happy, even if that meant being alone, but the fear <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> of just that alone was to great and after talking to him, I let him once again (This is our maybe 10th attempt) to re-enter my life, we spent New Years eve together. (SORRY THIS IS SO LONG)

At about 8:30 p.m., he steps out of the house <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> (without my knowledge) to answer her numerous text messages and they speak, she tells him her usual "How Can You Do This To ME" "yada..yada..yada" he returns, by this time I already knew he had stepped out and confront him, he is upset, but we still leave to my families home to wait for the New Year together! We've been there maybe 20 minutes <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> and he tells me he is going to the back yard bar for ice and is gone about 10 minutes when I go looking for him (I HATE THIS FEELING OF HELPLESSNESS AND INSECURITY) and I find him all the way BACK IN THE CAR, speaking with her! I was furious, he tried calming me down, I asked him to call her and advise her in front of me, he wanted nothing further to do with her and to stop calling, he refused saying he put a stop to it. She then text messaged him at 10:40 at 11:20 at 1:00am and at 3:22 a.m. that "he was a [censored], a liar, to get his s**t out of her house, she never wanted to speak with him again, he hurt her for the last time" and at 3:22 she sent him a "Hope you had a wonderful New Year hurting her"! Then on the first, in a miracle coincidence we were having breakfast in a restaurant and when he stepped into the restroom, She Called! Why? Because she wanted to tell him again to "Pick up his things", then text him AGAIN some other stuff! Today he is suppose to pick up his stuff, I sincerely dought that so highly I think they'll talk and he will betray me once again.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Can anyone explain to me why in Gods name I keep torturing myself? Why do I even try? Why can't I just go on with my life?

Marilyn
------------------------------------------------
Heavenly Father, in my present need, help me to believe that you are aware of my anxiety and will do what is best for me. Give me the strength to trust you and put the present and future in your hands. Grant this through Christ, our Lord.

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 12:26 PM: Message edited by: emptyheartaches ]</small>

Marilyn, I am wondering why you wouldn't consider moving into Plan B until he has really ended contact. It sounds like you simply took him back way too soon. Way before he was really ready to end contact and commit to your marriage.

As it is now, you are dying all over again because you are having the affair rubbed in your nose. You set yourself up for this. I would guess that your love bank is pretty shot and your nerves are shot after going through this hell for over a year.

You need to excuse yourself from this nightmare and quit playing this game. Go to Plan B and when he has really ended his affair and met certain other conditions, THEN, and only THEN will you even discuss reconciliation.

Stop playing this game and get out of this sick, sordid triangle TODAY.

Here is a good post from Cerri about setting boundaries before you let a WS come back:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=024255#000006

MelodyLane,

I thought I didn't have a tear left in me, and after receiving your post I can't stop crying <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . I guess I believe…. I believe he is still in there somewhere but, but he is so lost he can't find his way back to me...to us? When we talk, he tells me about how warm and loving she is and how she is so interested in him and everything about him. I feel like I'm half dead, how can I compete with that? He tells me all he needs is to know that I love him and want him (sexually? BIG THIS WITH HIM). I’ve even expressed my confusion, that I feel as if I am grieving for him, for us, for what use to be. I now find myself alone, scared and it's just hard. I ask myself is it that I go through as much withdrawal as he does when we are apart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , or is it just FEAR of the unknown, of being single at almost 35? We've been together almost 10 years, can it really be time to start a new life again?

I know, believe me when I say I know this triangle is disgusting, disrespectful (to the relationship, me and God), deceitful and tiresome, but when I try to do a plan B either he or I will break it? I sincerely think I should be in counseling.

Marilyn, in the meantime, I would suggest RUNNING to the bookstore and picking up a couple of good books that will really help: Surviving an Affair by Willard F. Harley Jr and Love Must Be Tough by James C. Dobson.

Have you been reading the material on this website about Marriage Builders principles?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by emptyheartaches:
[QB] MelodyLane,

I thought I didn't have a tear left in me, and after receiving your post I can't stop crying <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . I guess I believe…. I believe he is still in there somewhere but, but he is so lost he can't find his way back to me...to us? When we talk, he tells me about how warm and loving she is and how she is so interested in him and everything about him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This might be a clue about what has happened that made him vulnerable for an affair. Save for future discussion.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He tells me all he needs is to know that I love him and want him (sexually? BIG THIS WITH HIM).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is telling you that he needs to know you will BE THERE FOR HIM while he carries on an affair. In essence, you have ENABLED this affair to go on as long as it has by continuing to be there to meet his needs.

He is on the fence and will STAY THERE as long as you continue doing what you have been doing. He has NO MOTIVATION to end the affair as long as you keep reassuring him that you are there for him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I now find myself alone, scared and it's just hard. I ask myself is it that I go through as much withdrawal as he does when we are apart <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> , or is it just FEAR of the unknown, of being single at almost 35?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You have BEEN ALONE for 15 months, Marilyn. He has been with the OW all this time. You have been ALONE but at the expense of your self respect and your sanity. You have been in hell ALONE all this time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> but when I try to do a plan B either he or I will break it? I sincerely think I should be in counseling. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your path back to your marriage is Plan B. The other path has not worked - in fact, it has been destructive.

Plan B is not ending the relationship, it is your ONLY HOPE to restore your marriage. It is no guarantee of restoration, but AT WORST it will allow you to extract yourself from this sick triangle and detach from it. It is not easy, but it is easier than living the way you have been living.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by emptyheartaches:
<strong> MelodyLane,

I thought I didn't have a tear left in me, and after receiving your post I can't stop crying <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> . I guess I believe…. I believe he is still in there somewhere but, but he is so lost he can't find his way back to me...to us? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, he is still in there, but he is lost in an addiction. You have to help him find his way back. This is not hopeless, Marilyn.

What made you cry?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you been reading the material on this website about Marriage Builders principles?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">D-Day was August 27th I logged in Aug 29th, even though I don't post much I do read a lot, believe me I think I've read and read and read almost everything I can get my hands on. The people at the bookstore must think I am compiling a research thesis <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is on the fence and will STAY THERE as long as you continue doing what you have been doing. He has NO MOTIVATION to end the affair as long as you keep reassuring him that you are there for him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe Me I know, I blame myself for having spent 15 months in this horror story. I believe she is a lunatic, at least I had 8 1/2 years and built up great memories, they've been together off and on for 17 months and I would say 90% has been built on lies! However, she still is fighting for him?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What made you cry? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't talk to family or friends about this, they are all fed up! Heavens knows I AM TOO, so your response is what I needed, just for someone to hear and slap a bit of reality back in my life!

Thank you
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Marilyn

<small>[ January 03, 2004, 02:05 PM: Message edited by: emptyheartaches ]</small>

Are you on anti-depressants? I think this is a very hopeful situation as long as you can control your emotions and stick FIRMLY to a strategy to get your marriage back. You can't go into Plan B and then go back on your word next week when he sweet talks you. That just destroys your position.

If you keep doing what you are doing, you are just going to get the same bad result. And I think he may be nearing the end here. Now is not the time to lose it.

Even if you don't get your H back, you will get your sanity back. This is such an emotionally volatile situation that its hard to keep emotions under control, but you really need to concentrate on that right now.

What do you want to do, Marilyn? These might be tough steps but we can help you through this, ok?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think he may be nearing the end here. Now is not the time to lose it. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why do you think that?
We have been together off/on since April 19, 03 (to be exact) after that I moved out on my own. He is actually living with stuff in a family members home and some stuff in his car, YIKES!!!!! Who would want to live like that? Yes, I know an ADDICT!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do you want to do, Marilyn? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want to be happy and at peace! I want to trust the person I'm with. I want a 50/50 relationship. I know I've done my share of L'bing everywhere, and heaven knows I send him over there a lot, but I figure he's going to leave anyhow why not ask him to leave before "HE" leaves me?

With regards to meds, no I don't take anything, since I am so numb, I know he takes something on and off pro-something?

As Dr. Phil would say?

AND IS THIS WORKING FOR YOU?

WHAT IS YOUR PAY OFF???

You say you are 35 and afraid of being alone. First, I hate to tell ya this, 35! It's not so bad, honestly! You are still young and full of life if your WH wasn't making you feel otherwise.

Please, please gather all the strength you can muster and go to Plan B! You can do it! Like I said, what is going on right now is not working so why not? Give it a go instead of wondering what if? This mess will keep dragging as long as you let it and the OW lets it. She now knows that all she has to do is play tough w/him and he'll respond.

On New Year's after the first step out to contact OW, I would have said, "You said you wanted to spend New Year's w/me and your hiding to talk to her. Make up your mind right now because I plan on having a great evening whether you are here or not!"

Make a New Year's resolution with yourself. You, alone. Not w/WH. Decide to do what you need to do to take care of you and do it. Make a list. 1. Plan B; 2. Join health club to help curb my anxiety and; 3. Find ways to empower me by (date). etc., etc. Key is to "you." Find your spirit!!

You can do it!!!!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What do you want to do, Marilyn? I want to be happy and at peace! I want to trust the person I'm with. I want a 50/50 relationship. I know I've done my share of L'bing everywhere, and heaven knows I send him over there a lot, but I figure he's going to leave anyhow why not ask him to leave before "HE" leaves me?

With regards to meds, no I don't take anything, since I am so numb, I know he takes something on and off pro-something? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">HAve you been following any kind of Plan A since you have been coming here?

I asked what you want to do, because if you want to go forth with Plan B, we can start working on that.

I think that he is near the end because the affair has gone on for so long and he is trying to come back to you. He wouldn't be trying to come back if things were all that rosy. He is still addicted, though.

Where does he live?

<small>[ January 02, 2004, 01:59 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

SoDisappointed
Thank you for your response and your help, believe me I know a plan B is the way to go since I am so drained and dought everything I feel and everything he says!

MelodyLane
I did my plan A at the beginning and I think I have always been a sweet person who at one point in time was not very happy with my self image, as I said he is a very sexual person and I became very distant for about a year before the A. We were both starving for love and affection and it became a vicious circle. I wouldn’t feed his emotional needs and he would feed mine, but to his defense he always treated me like a princess, even though I acted as a spoil brat at times. When D-Day occurred the business woman in me came out and I said, "OK we can fix this lets plan and we will do this!" This shocked him, he thought I would never forgive him. I attempted to be everything he was looking for, that Marilyn he fell in love with. Lost weight, started working out, took interest in him AND THEN he lost his 19 year career and landed in jail and the only person who had the financial means to help him was HER! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

That drama is over, he is a good person who made several LARGE mistakes, but has always been a good provider and until now very decent. But his lies and his need to pay her back let him to leave my home (we were downsizing to save $) and move in with her (April 2003) since then YES he has been fence sitting. And since I have never EVER been alone have been fighting being alone since then.

Melodylane your right, I have been alone.....After 15 months what else can your friends and family say, this circle has driven us all into HELL and back more times than we can count.

Nevertheless, here it is, he says he wants to be with me (which I am sure he has told US both me and o w) this numerous times. He says he has come up with the conclusion that after 10 years he should fight for us that his loyalty should be with me! I know that it can't be all roses over there, if not he would have left me and never looked back.

But what now? As you say he is still an ADDICT!

What now is PLAN B. He is almost there, but she is pulling him back. And he knows that he can waffle on the fence for as long as you as are there. He wants to come back but doesn't quite have the strength yet or know how. Go into Plan B and give him the strength. And stick to it.

Give him a path to come back, ie: completely end contact and make sure she can't contact you. Send a no contact letter and commit to hanging up if she does contact him. Did you read the post by Cerri about conditions to come back?

Hearthache,
MelodyLane is giving you excellent advice. I know you really don't need to hear this from yet another stranger, but I assure you, she is telling you the right thing to do! Please follow through.

If for nothing else, Plan B will give you peace of mind. It will remove you from the day-to-day drama of it all. This ow sounds like a real "drama queen" - the way she calls him constantly and DEMANDS he get back to her, make his mind up, blah, blah, blah.

Follow my logic here, ok? He really is confused. Yes, he is. Soooo, along you come, trying to help him out of his confusion. Thinking "If I just remain logical, calm, loving, etc, he'll SEE that I'm the best choice. He'll SEE what a lunatic she is." No, not necessarily.

See, first of all, men have this "KISA" complex. "Knights In Shining Armor" - and some women KNOW how to take advantage of that! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> I suspect that is what ow is doing....calling him up all panicky, and she NEEDS him to come "rescue" her. <Yuck>

Well, he knows somewhere deep inside that this is lunacy, so he keeps YOU on the side, with your feet firmly planted in Terra Firma, so whenever things get really crazy, he can count on talking to YOU, and get grounded again! (I hope you're following me so far).

If you go to Plan B, he will have to look to HER TOTALLY to meet all his needs (SF being one of the ones YOU are apparently still meeting very nicely!) What will he do when SHE has to be his everything and can't be it? THINK ABOUT IT!

You said "...the businesswoman in you took over...." to try to salvage your M at the beginning of all this. Listen, if you are as strong in business principles as you say you are, then you know you cannot continue to throw your energies into a losing strategy and hope to have anything salvagable left after the carnage is over." (MB 2x4 swung at ya here!) <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Conclusion: 35 is NOT too "old." I was 32 before I was even married for the FIRST time!! I have a very dear friend who didn't marry till 39 - and she married a DOCTOR! Life is NOT over after 30, believe me!!!

Secondly, you have got to:
#1: Preserve any love you have left for your H. Other wise, you will begin to LB more and more (Plan B is the only way to do this)
#2: Understand the dynamics of an A, and WHERE this A is, where it is going, and how YOU fit into this mess. Once you do that, you will understand why people are so sure you NEED Plan B now.
#3: Know that we are here to help you every step of the way. If you doubt you can do this, do a study of Mimi's posts. She was where you are....H (almost) on the fence (although still leaning toward ow), and she very unsure of the benefits of a Plan B. It was hard, it was horrible!! But it really didn't take very long before H realized ow couldn't be all he needed/wasn't all he THOUGHT she was, and he came home!
Plan B is designed to make WS and op HAVE to be together totally to meet each others' every EN, and prove to WS that op cannot take the place of BS.

It's really your most logical move at this point. Please think hard about this. Please let us help you give your M its best shot at recovery.

God Bless,

Believe me Lupolady & MelodyLane, I know I should have been in a plan B since way before this! Last night we had dinner and he decided to tell me he was going by her house to pick up his stuff she supposedly left outside her front door (I don't know why outside the door, THE MAN HAS A KEY?) She leaves for work at 9:00 p.m. (Police Officer, as was he) and tells me he should call me back a little after nine so we can talk on the drive back. Well 9:00 turned to 9:30 to 10:00 to 11:00 I didn’t attempt one call to find out what happened with him, I knew exactly what happened. At 11:15 he sent me a text message and then a call, I didn't pick up, so he shows up at my door caring some clothing all this at 11:45, I had taken sleeping pills so I just went back to bed. In the morning he tells me that she didn't go to work and that she wanted to talk....talk....talk and talk. These to people must be the expert in talking things out!

Well to make a long story short she wanted him to stay with her, he refused and came over to express that "he had turned her down and that he wanted things to work between us, that he is willing to move out of the state or do what ever it takes for us to work on us!"

Do I believe him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ? Not for a minute! I think it would take a miracle of God for him to be a man or at lease the man I have known for eight years before this horror story began. A man willing to fight his addiction?

She later (at 1:00 a.m. and 3:00a.m. and 4:49 a.m. ) sent him several text’s all stating how much she loved him and that she couldn't sleep and wishing US well, <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> THE NERVE!!!! I've heard this from her numerous times, but you know he is the one that seeks her out, after she calms down, it's like he likes this nightmare we are living.


I know I've rambled on and on, I guess I was looking to vent. I know I need to go into a plan B, but I ask myself maybe his done with her? NAH! That’s just my heart talking, my head states, "look at his actions for 15 months and see the future"

God is this hard <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> !

Marilyn

Well I just had to jump into the fray. I've been in Plan B for almost 12 weeks and it is the only way to go. I had contact (listened to all his lies again) right before Christmas - and it was a HUGE setback for me. My H like yours says he wants to work on reconciliation, but keeps going back to her.

Now is the time for your H to write a NC letter to OW. It should say that he has decided he loves you and wants to work on the marriage and that he will have NC with her, no calls, no email, no meetings, not even to pick up his stuff.

You tell H that you love him but unless there is no contact with OW, there is no point in working on your relationship. If he will not send NC letter, and make his life an open book - time for Plan B. Once you get into it you will love it. It is so peaceful.

Posted this before but no one has responded, so here it goes again:

I wrote how OW had been calling WS from the 31st through the 3rd and Well, I need input on where to turn to next. Many of you have helped me tremendous help, melodylane, Lupolady and sodisappointed thank you again for your help, but I’m at a cross road in this triangle and I’m just lost on what should happen?

Here it goes:

WS has been speaking with OW but hasn’t been seening her on the 3rd they had about a three hour conversation in person with regards to all her questions “Why did you stand me up?”, “Why do you keep hurting me?” Why can’t you let Marilyn go?” Yada..Yada…Yada ! He returned to my home (Something I thought he would not do) and said things were different and he wanted to work on us! Ok here comes the 4th, he went to work and around 7:0 I asked if he had talked to her, he said “NO”, but he seemed a little distant. I didn’t question him again, but I did tell him I wanted the items I requested such as changing his phone #, Password to his email and his cell account and N/C letter. He again had no problem, but at about 10:30 a text message AGAIN comes in where it states “HOW DID YOUR TALK GO? R U COMING OVER?” I asked " what talk is she talking about and did he talk to her today? He then admitted HE had called her, but had decided not to leave”, She kept texting for him to call her, I became enraged I asked him to “leave my home!” Not to mention other wonderful thing I yelled, and he refused. He begged and pleaded, he expressed remorse for calling her (AGAIN!), he said “he didn’t know why he does these thing!” I was so upset it took him a good hour to calm me down, I just wanted him gone, so I told him to call her in front of me and tell her “He wasn’t coming over and that I was with him as he made this call and he was going to work on our relationship and would have no further contact with her!” It took him an hour and a ½ so I finally dialed her # for him, since he wouldn’t leave or call I dialed the number and he spoke with her for a total of 52 seconds.

Now here is my problem: I don’t believe him. I don’t think he is strong enough to stay away. He WILL end up calling her and leaving again! He keeps telling me he “has never not left after speaking with her”. But since April he has not not been with her for more than a week! AND I don’t think I can stand by him as he goes through his withdrawals and mourns another woman? Any thought. I just can’t even think. I have had a total of maybe 1-hour sleep, actually we both have.

One more thing: after calling her he expressed regret for calling and told me he wanted to leave but had made a decision not to. He tossed and turned all night moaning and groaning, “I DON’T THINK I CAN DO THIS”!!!!!!!

PLEASE HELP

Please, for the sake of your sanity and peace of mind, step AWAY from this drama.

Right now this man is TOXIC to you. This back-&- forth situation could go on literally FOREVER unless someone breaks the cycle. Obviously, the only sane (fog-less) person who can do that is you.

I urge you to stop the drama and insanity before it drags you down further.

Are you in counceling? That would be a very good step, as well as anti-D's.

Right now you need to focus on YOU and your healing. Don't depend on your WH to change before you can "heal". I think you have to assume that won't happen. If he does make the 180 degree changes necessary to benefit you and your marriage (while you're in Plan B), that's great.

I pray that peace and clarity will be yours soon.

Lori

at peace;

Thank you for your advice <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> , as you can see everyone has told me to plan B (great advice if I wasn't so confused)and this is what I have thought of doing:

I have asked him to disconnect his cell, email (Got it) password and he has done the No Contact call (not letter) and relocates employment.
This time he has done things a bit different, but it's also too soon to tell, she has a major hold on him and I must admit HE is the one that always contacts her with promises of starting a new life, ending the relationship with me and getting married with her.

Is it wrong for me to say "Okay one last opportunity" and if he relapses then plan B without delay?

Concerning the IC, no can you believe I have not attended <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> , I should RIGHT!

I am just so confused about my feeling, my fear of being alone, and have so many doughts should I hang on or just let go? I know I have to trust in God and leave everything in his hands, if he leaves then that's my answer, correct?

What's shocking is I was never a weak person, I manage a business and I can't even get my personal life in order, how sad!

Marilyn <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

<small>[ January 05, 2004, 04:10 PM: Message edited by: emptyheartaches ]</small>