Hi, I'm not new but I've been gone for months. I used to hang out on the Recovery board. I'll give a history and then a question for you wise souls. This is long.

I'm 43, H is 48. M 7 years now.
2 years ago, Jan 02, H got involved in EA with his old high school sweetheart. It was long distance, involved much IM, paging, emails, phone calls. He told me about it three weeks into the EA but told me if I gave him an ultimatum (quit talking with her) he'd leave. So I sucked it up, was the best wife I knew how to be, and waited. I hadn't found MB yet but I'd read His Needs Her Needs a few years back and in retrospect I think I did a fine Plan A.

The EA died of its own accord after 3 to 5 months (dwindled away) but lies and surprises kept popping up until July 02 or later. You know how it is, the EA is over but you find new bills, etc. that reveal lies after WS swears he's been 100% honest and you now know everything. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

I stayed quite paranoid until May 03, when checking up etc. finally had exhausted me and I asked for some things I hadn't been brave enough to ask for during the EA: put rules on his email account so he wouldn't get any more emails from her (she still mailed him occasionally), promise me no contact, tell me when she attempted to contact him, always be completely and totally honest because I found lies more hurtful than whatever pain he was protecting me from.

I put on a happy face and things actually felt pretty fine for a few months, until around Sep 03 when I found myself becoming attracted to an old male friend. H knew about all our interactions, any emails, phone calls, etc. - he had been a friend for a couple of years and all interaction was quite open. But I went to OM's house for dinner w/o my H's knowledge and although all we did was eat dinner and talk for a few hours I knew it was an infidelity because I'd not told my H.

So I ceased all contact with OM and told my H about my attraction to OM. We've agreed to work things out, and H has pledged to do "whatever it takes".

We're seeing a counselor. The reason I gave the counselor for wanting to see her was that H had an EA, I recently came close to an A (definitely was an infidelity, in my opinion), and I wanted to find out why I allowed myself to come so close to the brink of disaster, what would it take to work on fixing that, and did I want to work on fixing it?

I've been reading tons of books, doing lots of introspective thinking. It's not that OM was magic or anything - I'm 100% clear that he was a symptom, not anything special. I don't harbor any delusions of how wonderful he is, I know some of his warts and I'm clear headed enough to know that there are lots more. I understand that I allowed myself to feel too much for OM because I don't feel safe in my M, I've allowed myself to become too isolated and friendless, and my top EN isn't getting met at home. H knows all this too.

My problem is that H and I never really worked out his EA. I don't know why it happened, I don't know how I contributed, I don't know what about H's personality or past caused him to behave the way he did. Nothing was ever processed, it was all buried.

H seems happy to forget it all and go on "just like before." I'm not at all happy to do that. His EA, in my opinion, needs to be understood and we need to change our M for the better; we need to learn from the EA. I don't want that old marriage back, I want a good marriage, an intimate marriage. H mostly treats me with consideration, there's no OW, we have good conversations, he meets lots of ENs but neglects my top one. Our M is probably better than many, but I'm not satisfied with it. Our old M was better than many, too, and look where it got us.

I've recently come to realize that H would still lie to me about any attemped contact from OW - not because he cares *anything* about her any more, but "because he wouldn't want to see me upset." This shows he doesn't understand honesty and intimacy in the same way I do.

When I try to address the issues we end up in a huge fight. When I suck it up and put on a happy face, our interactions are smoother but my highest EN is still unmet, I don't feel emotionally safe with him, and I don't trust him to share his feelings with me. In short, we lack emotional intimacy and trust. I never truly understood the "elephant under the rug" that everyone knows is there but no one acknowledges, until these last few weeks when we've danced around putting on a happy face for the holidays.

H and I have terrible communication skills. H particularly hates "relationship" talks and doesn't provide a safe place for me. When I bring up our M he is judgmental and quick to anger. I tend to shut down, as I am a conflict avoider. (I intend to bring this up with the counselor at our session on Monday and ask how to improve our communication skills).

My problem now is I'm running out of steam and don't really feel like fighting for our M any more. I don't *think* I'm operating out of a fog - OM was a good friend, but we never had any lovey dovey conversations, dreamy plans for a future, etc. I broke off contact because I saw the friendship heading to a bad place. I think it was more of a red flag, and I took note of it.

My problem is I'm drained, my love bank is precariously close to empty, and although my H says he'll do whatever it takes, I feel like I'm in this alone. He doesn't want to have the talks, he went to the first 2 counseling sessions but bailed on the 3rd, says he's going to the 4th (next week). He hasn't done the exercise the counselor sent home with me from the 3rd session. He won't read any books with me. I simply don't know how to get through to him, and I'm exhausted from trying. I know I can't "educate" him, he has to want to enter this self exploration and growth himself. He says he does, but his actions prove otherwise. Truthfully, I'd prefer being on my own right now. I'd miss him - he has so many great qualities and I love so much about him. But if he were to ask me to marry him today, no way would I do it. Too much work that he needs to do and is unwilling to face.

Don't get me wrong - I'm sure I have things I could improve, too. I've made lots of progress thanks to several books, this board, and the counselor. I'm not sure what improvements H would like to see, I wish he'd tell me.

How do you know when you're done? My only reasons for staying right now are that it would be a hard adjustment for my daughter (his stepdaughter), and I don't want to wake up down the road wishing I'd done more.

If you've stuck with me through this obscenely long post, I surely appreciate it and welcome any comments, observations, and questions.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> H mostly treats me with consideration, there's no OW, we have good conversations, he meets lots of ENs but neglects my top one. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And that top need is? Is it honesty?

I feel for you turtlehead. Several of the things you are feeling are similar to my feelings. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I don't feel emotionally safe with him, and I don't trust him to share his feelings with me. In short, we lack emotional intimacy and trust. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">... </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">H and I have terrible communication skills. H particularly hates "relationship" talks and doesn't provide a safe place for me. When I bring up our M he is judgmental and quick to anger. I tend to shut down, as I am a conflict avoider. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Both these quotes sound just like something I could've written. These two aspects alone drained my love bank terribly.

HOWEVER, here's where your H and mine are different: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My problem is I'm drained, my love bank is precariously close to empty, and although my H says he'll do whatever it takes, I feel like I'm in this alone. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your H has at least said he'll do whatever it takes (unlike mine, who said he won't make a commitment to anyone or anything), and has bothered to try going for counselling (which my H has flat out refused). I'd venture to guess that he cares and wants to be with you, but
a) you two need to work on your communication skills and meeting each other's needs,
although,
b) he may be too lazy to do the hard work needed to achieve those better communication skills (I think there are a lot of people out there who think love in and of itself should take care of making a relationship work, not conscious efforts to communicate better and focus on each other's needs).

I'm no expert here. In my own situation, I finally came to a point where my love bank was drained, and I woke up and realized that my H was simply NOT willing to work at this marriage 50/50. He wasn't even willing to make a commitment to me or make me a priority in his life. A good marriage takes two people trying wholeheartedly, not just one working and one coasting along.

I don't really have any suggestions for what you should do other than continue with the counselling, and maybe ask the counsellor what to do about your conflict avoidance and your H's unwillingness to do the homework.

Take care,

Jen

Thanks, Jen, for reading through that horrendously long post and giving me your candid feedback.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And that top need is? Is it honesty?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Oh, my gosh. Do you know I never even considered honesty one of my needs? I considered sexual fulfillment my number one EN, and dishonesty as my top LB. But I went back and re-read my post and it just screams "I need honesty!!!" Okay, so my top two ENs are not being met right now. No wonder I'm feeling drained <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> Amazing what a fresh look (through your eyes, Jen) can do to help a person gain insight.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Both these quotes sound just like something I could've written. These two aspects alone drained my love bank terribly.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm glad you mentioned that. H is traipsing along, seemingly happy as a clam, while I feel so totally disconnected it's affecting everything I do. I was beginning to think I was crazy. It can sound crazy when I say it out loud "Honey, I need to feel safe when I talk to you". His response is "So say it. What's the big deal?" And I think to myself "What is the big deal?" But then I muster my courage and try to talk to him calmly from the scary vulnerable parts of my heart, and I get irritation and criticism in response. It's discouraging, to say the least. It makes it really hard to screw up my courage and try again. It sounds crazy, but it feels so very, very big. I'm so glad you understand. That makes me feel more sure of myself, and not doubt myself so much.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your H has at least said he'll do whatever it takes (unlike mine, who said he won't make a commitment to anyone or anything), and has bothered to try going for counselling (which my H has flat out refused).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, that's why I'm still in here trying. I do believe he loves me, and wants this to work. I don't think he has any idea of how hard it's going to be, though. I think his idea of "making it work" are forgetting the past, giving me hugs and little thoughtful gifts, taking care of the house (all very much appreciated by me, by the way) and dusting everything else under the rug. I feel like we're applying coats of fresh paint over termite infested wood.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd venture to guess that he cares and wants to be with you, but
a) you two need to work on your communication skills and meeting each other's needs,
although,
b) he may be too lazy to do the hard work needed to achieve those better communication skills</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you're right on both counts. Thanks again for your comments.

Update on me.

Went to the counselor yesterday as I'd forgotten about a conflict on Monday and had to reschedule. It was really hard - H and I both left with massive headaches - but I feel SO LIBERATED! Kind of overwhelmed when I think of the mountain of work ahead of me but oh, so good to have something to focus on. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Discussed mostly how to communicate effectively and the counselor told us (no kidding, and we're going to feel like idiots) to parrot what the other one says. Not to say it in our own words, not to paraphrase, but to parrot. Like a tape recorder. Talk about unnatural! But she says if we can make ourselves do it then it can be powerful. H thinks we might die laughing, which is a good way to approach it, I think -- with a bit of levity. For example, if H says "I don't like relationship talks" then I might hear his words exactly but internally I'm registering that he abhors them and would rather lose his fingernails than endure them. But there's something about me parroting his statement "I don't like relationship talks" that makes the meaning "click" with me. When I hear my own voice saying the words I will hear my H more accurately. Interesting, huh?

We also talked about my conflict avoidance, and how absolutely terrified I am of bringing up the talks. I learned a LOT about myself yesterday. Here's at least some of what's coming into play with me:

1. Learned as a child of a violent alcoholic father that the best way to survive is go in my room, close the door, and play quietly.
2. During H's EA, he told me not to make demands for NC or he'd leave; he also told me that talking is salve for me but poison for him.
3. H is assertive to the point of being agressive, and tends to react with anger.

Needless to say, the above play together to leave me feeling overwhelmed when involved in an emotionally charged dialogue with my H. If he reacts strongly or negatively (and he will, that's just him - and he's working hard on it) I shut down, withdraw, let the walls go up. Counselor guessed and H verified (to my surprise) that I live in my own head a lot. H says I brood. I had no idea. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

So, instead of withdrawing, I'm to tell H when he's coming across harshly or when he's made me angry (counselor didn't seem to think this would be any kind of judgment, and H agreed, so...) and continue if I feel like it or ask to pick up conversation a little later if I need to. The BIG points here are that
1. I'm voicing my feelings so H isn't left walking on eggshells and wondering what I'm brooding about
2. I learn to stand up for myself just a little <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

The counselor looked at me yesterday and said "Are you afraid that if you try to talk to him he'll leave you?" and I couldn't believe it. It was like she was in my brain but with a clarity of thought that I don't possess.

I cried yesterday, and I'm tearing up again now just thinking about it. This is why my H's EA was brushed under the rug, so to speak, and why I still live in fear of it. It's also a lot of why I allowed myself to get involved in an EA of my own, because I had so much to say but didn't know how to approach my H about it all. Stupid, I know <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I can't express the relief I felt and am still feeling at having this lightbulb go off.

I told my H that if I'm to quit "living inside my head" that we're going to have a lot more talks, and he said that's fine. I think this guy REALLY DOES LOVE ME <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I know I have a lot of work to do on me, but I feel like I have a path now, and I feel SO LIBERATED knowing it's safe to talk to my H. It sounds simple, but it feels so big. H doesn't really "get" how I feel and probably he never will, but for now he's willing to accept that it is so and do what he can to help. We both feel like the future of our M is a question mark but for now we're content to be working on ourselves as individuals and also on the M.