Jim
Medications can be given to treat the side effects of a personality disorder such as depression but those medications do not cure the personality disorder.

I too am interested in answers to the questions that Tiny Dancer posed to you.

I still don't understand if your wife was abusing you and went two years without being able to physically care for herself, that you would leave without taking the children. You said the final straw was when she was abusing your son so YOU left! Why was she not admitted to a mental health care facility? It just doesn't make sense.

We would all here like to help you but don't be surprised when things don't add up that we'll question you about it.

For example-an entire restaurant cleared out to pick up your child. Seems exaggerated. If she were chasing you how would you know the entire restaurant cleared out. How many people does it take to see to the needs of a child?

If she tried to run over you 5 times and succeeded once, why weren't charges filed so that it could be clearly seen by the court system that she needed help?

I'm sure your wife was beside herself too being married to you for 12 years and watching your behavior. If she were so mentally ill, why are you shocked at her behavior?

Like several other posters I know your story or at least the side we have read & like them I have been told I was mean or other things, or since I did not save my marriage my advice was worthless...however I still have followed this story maybe because I am a fellow Houstonian.

However, after reading your side, I know the truth is somewhere between you & her, all I really have to say is someone needs to save your children.......I feel for them.

NC,

I too welcome you to MB! Many of us have tried to help your wife over the past few years.

I'm curious what brings you here after all the years she's been posting?

I have supported her in continuing her Alanon events and someone in particular who has been helpful to her is Gibby. Hopefully he'll stop in with some thoughts for you, since he is a recovering alcoholic.

Others have suggested that you read the basic concepts here to get an idea of what your wife has been working with all this time. What we have all learned is that you can't change another person, only yourself...positive changes in your behavior will likely have a postive impact on your wife's behavior.

Download and fill out the emotional needs questionnaire and the love busters questionnaire. It will give you a great place to start. Also the Harley's book His Needs Her Needs is the best out there as far as I'm concerned.

Only if you both are committed will you be able to put your marriage back together, given what we've learned at least from her perspective.

It would cheer us all if you both saved your family! It's what we're all about here. Blessings, CSue

Hi NC,
Welcome to MB, this is a place where those who wish to find help will, and where those who wish to reconstruct their lives can do so.
Naturally, this does not come easy; it is a process, and it takes courage and determination to see it through.

All of us here have formed some sort of impression about you and her over time, and clearly any story has two sides to it, so yours is welcome as well.

The important thing, however, is not who is right and who is wrong, or who is to blame and who is not to blame. Reality is that in almost ALL cases, there is responsibility and blame on both parties. So rather than dwelling on that, why don't we try to find the common ground between you two and work from there?

Do you both want your marriage back? Are you both willing to put aside blame and anger and make a sincere try at this? Are you both willing to take responsibility for your actions and for the parts you'll both have to play from here on out?

We all have to live with our choices and their consequences; the question is can we get past them and make some better choices? Can we learn from them?

I, for one, was unable to save my marriage, and I made choices I now have to live with. My W did the same. And maybe it could have been different, maybe not, but we are both living with those choices now. I don't regret any of mine, as I did the best I could. I'm sure she did too...I'm NOT sure if she regrets any of hers.

Her choices led to her spending Christams Day visiting someone at a Federal Prison in FL; my choices led me to spend Christmas Day working, allowing my Christian colleagues the chance to spend the day with their families.

On which side of these types of choices do you and your W want to find yourselves next year?

<small>[ January 04, 2004, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: Spacecase ]</small>

<small>[ January 04, 2004, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Your post particularly interests me because of the violence and because, when I told my FRIENDS about the broken arm and the affair, THEY told me that I needed to look at my behavior.

I suspect that you already know this, but anyone who stays in such a bad relationship, for any reason, has bought into a line of reasoning that is just plain wrong. I'm still not sure what it is. I think it may be some variant of "If I change, so will they".

I've read some interesting books on abuse. There's a book called "The Emotionally Abusive Relationship" which suggests some movies to watch. Harley's book "Buyers, Renters, and Freeloaders" gives a description of what I call "the chit game" -- "if I sacrifice for you, you'll sacrifice for me" which I was clearly playing. Both of us felt like victims.

The reason why I'm saying this is that two people can have very different perspectives on the same situation.

I have to live with the guilt that my daughter, now 4, was very strongly affected by seeing her father spank her mother and yell "G... d... it." However, I have never dealt with the children being physically abused. They were witnesses, and I accepted the blame for his violence... but I never saw my children abused themselves.

If your child got bruises, what are you waiting for? You can get a restraining order against the boyfriend to protect your child.

<small>[ January 04, 2004, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

NC,

Your wife's story broke my heart when I first read it, and it's breaking again reading this.

I think you have been given some really good advice. When someone says you need to make a change, that is because it's a likely scenario that one needs to make changes. Everyone must change at some point, either perspective or deed. It's not a judgment about you, but a suggestion for you to do some self-examination.

I'm adding my prayers to others who've prayed.

Petals

Are you there, Mr. Cheerios?
How are things going?
KK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by TinyDancer:
<strong> ok J, I'm going to ask a few tough questions. Your choice whether you answer or not.

Are you an alcoholic?
Do you have a job?
Have you supported the children monetarily?
Have you refused to live in the family home because her parents "own" it?
Did you post pics on your website of your other women along with disparaging comments about your wife?


I know "your story", as much as anyone else here looking in from the outside. I'll tell you what I've told your wife, the children and what they are learning from this is the only thing that matters. Protect them. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hello Tiny,

To answer your questions, even though I am kind of afraid my wife might try to use them against me- Yes I am an alcoholic. Luckily I am now involved with AA and have a sponsor. I attend at (2) different locations, including my church.

Yes, I have a job. I started a new career recently- went to real estate school and got my Loan Officer cerfification. I have not closed on my first loan yet, but I have 4 people in the works (yea!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Um, as for the child support, yes, when I left my last paycheck of ~$4,400 was direct deposited into her account. At that time I began $2250 per month, for I think about 4 months, then I lowered it consecutively- after telling her to just know that I could not continue to pay that amount. I went down to $2000, and then $1900, $1800 and finally down eventually to about $1200. Now I *did* get very very poor from about Christams of last year- around the time she took me to court for child support, and since I had no job they only ordered $250- to the last 3 or 4 months I have been improving little by little.

No. I have not refused to live there because of her parents' ownership- that *is* kinda a big issue though- My wife lies and lies and lies A LOT, and many of her lies have been to her parents- about me... For instance, last week when I went to counseling (she did not show up, went to the bar with cheater man, but that is a different story. I degress) The kids said she told them she was going to a Mary Kay appmt. Then I learned her parents are NOT AWARE that we have been in couinseling for the last year, every week, and even multiple times per week...

So her parents of course hate me, and then they go and lie to her- because they are deathly afraid that she will punish them by keeping them from the kids.

Um, I do not think I have posted any comments on *my* web site- basically it just has fishing photos, and some pics of my old house when I was trying to rent it out. Now, she *did* hack my Yahoo account, and go through and find a picture of my then maid. The picture said "I am hot for Jim"- which is an inside joke. She had asked me how to say "I am from Chihuahua" in English. Bad joke, bad idea, but Eva is a pretty good person, and I was not very nice to her, not fair.

<small>[ January 15, 2004, 02:13 PM: Message edited by: -Nut Cheerios ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Resilient:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by -Nut Cheerios:
But I WILL get better, and the kids WILL have a measurable improvement (those of you know what I mean).

In the mean time, thank you all so much, and I will try to keep you posted.

Please say a prayer,
Jim</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Jim,

There are prayers going up for your family, and for you to make sound decisions for you and your children.

I have to say, most of what you wrote in your last post was so abstract I'm having trouble deciphering it.

But I will ask if you can tell me what you meant by your passage up above in BOLD font. Are you taking steps to ensure your children's protection. I truly pray you are.

Jo </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey Resilent,

(post deleted)

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 01:07 PM: Message edited by: -Nut Cheerios ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Orchid:
<strong> Hi NCheerios,

Welcome to MB. I wrote out one of my 'short' posts to you and well, H deleted it 'on accident'. So I will try again and make it 'shorter' <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

As with all 'newbies', I encourage you to read the concepts section. Have we heard a bit about you? Yes, we have. I am sure you have heard a bit 'bout us too. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Ok, know that this board is made up of BS, WS, children, friends, relatives, etc from all walks of life. Basically here to help and learn from not only our mistakes but to learn and avoid others as much as possible.

R all BS good and all WS bad? Nope. We are all imperfect and most of us are here to learn and heal. Some learn fast others a bit slower but most learn. The ones that don't....leave. Know that a few trip over here from the dark side (TOW board) and so it isn't 100% in favor of MB who post here but the majority are respectful of this site.

Given the above, I am glad you came to post. This is a free place to put your thoughts and know the healing of a family requires the help of all. It is not the 1st nor the last time that the tables can be turned. Now it may be your time to show that you really mean what you say. It sure looks different when you are out of the fog and really see your family, right?
I know, my H was the Ws and his demeanor is way different than the past. Almost human or humane - ??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ??? While in his A, he was an angry man more than the past and turned into a creature that literally scared the daylights out of me. Of course those were turbulent times but we survived. When he came home, I had the urge to step out and leave also....you see when the WS starts to return to their senses, the BS feels they don't have to keep up the guard as much and this is a very vulnerable time for the BS. Yet the WS tends to expect the BS to keep up the same pace to be all and do all as during the A/foggy days. That is not fair.

I am NOT defending unhealthy actions by any BS. I am merely stating that it is a tiring position to be in having to be the mainstay and never knowing when a moment to relax will come. Kinda like being on call 24/7 forever.

To address your children. They need to feel safe, be safe, happy and healthy. That is the responsibility of both parents. Whether or not u 2 like each other at the moment.

If you really love your W, you will continue to show loving acts. The undeniable one. If she chooses to end the M, understand that she maybe past her physical and emotional limit of dealing with the issues from the past or she may need healing time for herself. Her healing may be just as hard as your was. Don't be angry at her for that.

Realize that just as much as you had felt she could not tell you what to do, you have to accord her the same also. Oh yea, it goes both ways and neither one feels good to the other spouse. Swallow it. Don't let your pride get in the way. She did put up with a lot from you right? Ok, dig your heels down some of that may be thrown back at you.

If she chooses to make a fool of herself, you have to make sure you and the children are safe. She is an adult and sometimes adults do stupid things. Make sure you control your actions and if that makes her angry, step aside and let her actions speak for themselves.

By the way, that is what we told your W to do to you. It took her a while but eventually she was able to try some of it. Looking back, I am sure you see where even you would have had a hard time if you were on the receiving end of some of your previous actions, right?

Just some food for thought. I am sure both of you will be reading the posts on this thread. That being the case, please know that I have nothing to gain by seeing you continually hurt each other..... but I do hurt seeing that happen.

Please, have a heart and make this 'ol gal smile. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Hey L. Thank you so much for the warm post. But, actually my kids say she hasn't turned on her computer in months. Put it this way- when she gets home from work, she drops the kids off at the house, I do believe she usually feeds them, and then she shoots right up to the Crooked Ferret bar, where she and Darren get drunk, and then they usually hop into her car (she doesn't want me to see it there), and they high tail it to his apartment, where they have of course, sex. She usually makes it home nowadays around 10PM or so, because I have begun taking the children from the house when I find them home alone. I have to drive 22 miles just to see if she is there, because she will sit there in a loud bar and tell me on the phone that she is home, and of course when I call she knows I'm aware- and coming to see if they are OK.

So, if you're able and know her, I pray you- or anyone else who knows her, to give her a ring sometime if you have a close enough relationship with her.

J

Well Hello All,

It took me a while to get back here- and I have posted a few replies as you can see, if you have made here to this far down the line...

Let me first say that I am sorry for being so defensive earlier- you know defensivebess is a wonderful trait of liars, and also alcoholics- it is a learned behavior that I pretty much mastered.

I don't know what exactly to say about, I think some of ya'll were saying "Who to believe?" earlier. My first impression is to say what I tell everyone whenever someone does not believe me, but I believe I can more gracefully answer TWO questions, by explaining that YES, our marriage counselors have been Terrific. I mean, out of 10 years of counseling over I guess a dozen different counselors and programs, they have truly truly helped.

They convinced me to stop my affair, which was very good, but also very painful. I missed that girl for a year. My wife helped me to miss her by doing crazy awful things to me.

But the point I'm gettin' to is that a little over 2 years ago I made a promise, that I would no longer ever tell a lie to any one. I feared that the walls would come down and crush me, but in fact all that happened is a whole lot of doors opened up. I know this might sound weird, but this was a huge decision for me.

And I have discussed this with my wife, and our counselors, and my wife really really tries hard to get me to lie. You see, telling the truth here is a painful, and I do not wish to hurt her uneccesarily. She knows that if I begin to lie again, then there will be some room for covering some of her tracks, and the dysfunctionality of the old relationship can somehow I don't know, maybe come back in a way.

So she looks for areas where I say "I'm not going to tell you" or where I say "I don't think we need to be discussing this"- and she drives them. Usually I eventually just give in and tell her, and then she gets angry, and uses her anger as an excuse for the affair.

Basically, she wants intimate details of my relationship with the former OW...

But anyway, I tell anyone who thinks I am lying the same answer usually- just believe what you want, because I KNOW the truth, and that is what is most important to me. I have noticed that this approach seems to work very well. It also drives away liars. Which, incidently, the way I broke off my affair was by making my promise to never lie. When I told the OW, who was of course a liar, I knew that she would move on. She tried real hard to match my honesty pledge, but eventually little by little her lies became insupportable. Either she still lies to her husband, or he has a seriously forgiving nature is all I can say.

Well, before this gets toooooo long, which I am sure it is about to, let me please say that I am still looking for what I hope to get from MB. (BTW, one of you asked, as yes I have done all of the questionaires with my wife last year- and yes it was enlightening) But I do hope to squeeze in here that if any of you know my wife, I sure do wish ya'll would, if you have a close enough relationship- to give her a ring sometime. Tell her I love her very much, I miss her and want very badly that we agree to stop our divorce, but I am really sure that it is over, because there is too much to fix, and she doesn't want to anyway...

So here is the update:

One of you made me angry by saying to get the kids out of both of our homes, or at least said to get them in a safe place- and somehow yes you did strike a resonant chord somehow. So here is what I have done-

First, I took photos of the bruises. There was one 2"x2" and another smaller one near it. Then I went and talked with the kids' counselors at both of their schools- after initially caling Child Protective Services (CPS), and opeing a claim with them.

Next I went to the police station and filed assault charges. I had my son interviewed by a CPS worker, and also by a Harris county social worker. My son's school nurse had also previously given my child a look over, and had documented his bruise on a special form where she draws it on a picture of a little boy. She got a statement from him, and had a 3rd party employee sign as a witness of the bruise (this is all 5 days after the incident).

So his story matched with the counselor, the 3rd party, the nurse, the social worker and also CPS- the same exact story he told me.

Next I tried to get a Protective Order, but for a man here in Houston it is harder than you think. The PO folks even told me that I would never get one without a lawyer, because I am a man.

Then I tried to get a Restraining Order. Unfortunately they take a little while and, since RO's are Civil Court, she has to come testify.

So obviously I am in need of all the proof I can get...

I hired the world's cheapes PI- I think I am his first customer, and he is not very good with his photos, but he IS dtermined, and my wife is sooo flagrant that the results are good.

What I can't stand is that I am like "Look, don't lie to me- I have a picture of ya'll kissing in the parkinglot of this bar, and documentation of the time, and documentation that the kids were home alone" And she is like "Nope. Didn't happen." So I am dealing with the lies, and the fact that she is unable at this point to cut it off.

Of course, common sense will tell you that they are not going to build a good relationship, based on lies, adultery, drinking, and violence.

MY PI was laughing the other day, saying man you make tghis so easy, because you tell me where she'll be and all I have to do is drive up and take a snapshot. Her MO: Gets the kids after work from daycare nowadays Before seeing Darren. Then she gets them home and I guess fed, and goes to the bar between anywhere from 6:30PM to 9:30PM. Gets drunk at the bar, with the man has him armn around her, and I am so sorry to say it, but he is encouraging her to smoke. AKKKGGHH!

As a smoker who wants to quit, and not able for 10 years, it makes me sick to see my girl start a habit that will affect her possible for the rest of her life.

So anyway, then they go to his house and get it on, usually for a good hour, sometimes 2 or 3. Then she shoots home (tells the kids she went to the store), and he shoots back up to the bar- and what I do not appreciate- tells the other guys there all of the details, and they LAUGH at her, and sometimes say stuff like "C*me on her (insert body part) for me next time- and he does. Says "Got the left one for you Franswa, just like you asked" and they buy him beers....

Ug. I'm sick now. There is a lot more to tell you, but just so you know I am filing all kinds of petitions with the court, and it is expensive. I have 3 great lawyers.

I am now picking up the children when I find them home alone- and she is threatening a restraining order, which of course I will show the judge that I am just trying to protect the kids.

I'd give anything if she would stop the affair, but oh well. I'm pretty sure she'll never be what I need in her- too much promiscuous sex, Too much alcohol on both our parts (yes I am still trying, I'll update you on that). Too much violence, too much mistrust among us both.

Thank ya'll,

J

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 12:49 PM: Message edited by: -Nut Cheerios ]</small>

J,

I applaud you for coming back, telling us more of "your side" of the story, including the "ugly" details of ow....and now w's om, even through your anger at some of our posts to you.

I feel like I am probably one of the ones who posted to you that made you angry. You see, I do not believe for one minute that any adult who has brought a child into this world can take leave of that responsibility for any reason, ever. It seemed to us from your W's posts, that YOU had done that.

Now, it seems, she has done that. The biggest difference between you two that I see is that SHE has done it with a man who is now abusing your children. This I totally disagree with. I beleive (as noted above) it is always the parent's responsibility to protect the child, no matter what else is going on in their (parent's) world.

I am glad that you have gone to the next level with these actions of OM, and had pictures taken, and reports filed with the proper authorities. While I understand how hard this must be to do, how W will react to these actions on your part, I still believe your primary responsibility is to your children. W is an adult.....fully able to MAKE or CHANGE her surroundings if she chooses......your sons are not. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

They are only unwilling recipients of whatever their parents expose them to.

To that end, I probably came on a littel strong about how important it was to "expose" om, and his treatment of your children. Jim, listen. What your children are experiencing now (and throughout their entire lives), will ultimately shape the type of human beings, the type of men, and their reactions to the difficulties of life they will face for the rest of their lives.

With that in mind, I would like to think that they knew that at least ONE of their parents gave up their own needs/wants/emotional baggage long enough to care for their deepest needs during their childhood.

I hope you continue to rise to this challenge. I hope you never allow your small sons to be left home alone for hours on end in the evenings. This is a disaster waiting to happen. You would never be able to live with yourself if anything ever happened while they were there all alone (neither would she, but YOU're the one who's here now!). If you need to document this, and just "sit" on that information, at least do that........but don't just let it happen. It's just too dangerous for them.

Bottom line, Be the best DAD you can be. In that quest, I will always encourage you!

God Bless,

<small>[ January 15, 2004, 05:33 PM: Message edited by: lupolady ]</small>

Hey ya'll, Just got a feeling to post one other thing- I'm sick of all of the negativity!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Somebody asked me about the OW pic on the Internet, and I went to see if I could find it on my free web server...

No pic any more, but I *did* find a hilarious small site that I created back around the split up, called the MJ Society for True Friends. Looking back things were waaay dysfunctional, but the site is nonetheless humorous, and I think maybe somebody here might appreciate it:

http://www.geocities.com/jtb4/true_friends.htm


J

<small>[ January 16, 2004, 10:42 AM: Message edited by: -Nut Cheerios ]</small>

I'm glad you are posting and working on protecting your children.

Although you made marriage vows, adultery appears to not be viewed as a crime. What is the point in having the PI take pictures of adultery? Work on documenting children left at home alone. Can you get documentation on your child visitation times and then, when the children are home alone, call the police and ask for them to file a police report stating that the children were not with their mother at such and such a time? Then you could take that information (perhaps) to court.

It doesn't really matter to the court what your W is doing BUT it does matter that she isn't with her children.

<small>[ January 16, 2004, 10:36 AM: Message edited by: broken heart and arm ]</small>

Exactly, Broken

What my PI does is note the times they are left alone.

As for the police- yes, the Judge for the local sheriff's office has instructed me to call 911 whenever I discover that they are alone, and then when the police arrive tell them his name and number, and then take them with me.

But unfortunately W has discovered that it takes me an hour or so to determine they are alone, plus 30 minutes to drive up there, and time to call 911, and then the police take another 45 minutes- in all about a good 3 1/2 hour timeframe on average...

So she cut that down when I began "beating the deadline", and I was only able to beet it my seconds, twice. Both times she caught me in the car leaving...

So now she has instructed the children they are not allowed to answer the phone ANYTIME I am calling, and told them they are not allowed to call me. They are not allowed to answer the door, even when they see it is me, and they are instructed to call her if they see me. Finally, the lights in the house are always dark, and the windows covered up.

So now I am having to document as best as I can, and I am petitioning the court to order that I am able to phone the children, and them me.

Any other ideas?

J

Jim
I very glad to see that you are taking steps to protect your sons. That is the first task.

If your sons are not allowed to answer the phone when you call, all you have to do is *67 and your number will be blocked or you could call from a friend's home. They can testify to the police, CPS, and school personnel that they are left alone and that they are not being allowed to see you. After repeated instances, surely they could be removed. It seems that you have enough evidence now in order for the state to step in. Do you have an attorney? They should be helping you in this.

If you were married before she was divorced from her previous husband (a fact I never heard from her), are you legally married? So both you and she have participated in this behavior previously. I pray that you've learned your lesson that this type of behavior is nothing but destructive.

It seems that if she's wanting to spend so much time with Darren, would she not be willing to let you have custody? If she were to get a RO against you, she would have to explain to a judge the reasoning. You'll get to state your case and present evidence. She'll not go that route as it may blow up in her face.

It breaks my heart that men would talk in such a way about a woman. Unfortunately when one lays down with dogs they get up with fleas.

You must remember that she's in the same fog that you were in when you were with OW. It will take time for her to see the light

I commend you on your efforts to protect your sons, your realization that dishonesty is destructive, and that you're dealing with your alcoholism. Good job! Please know that I'll remember you all in my prayers.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jph:
<strong> Jim
I very glad to see that you are taking steps to protect your sons. That is the first task.

If your sons are not allowed to answer the phone when you call, all you have to do is *67 and your number will be blocked or you could call from a friend's home. They can testify to the police, CPS, and school personnel that they are left alone and that they are not being allowed to see you. After repeated instances, surely they could be removed. It seems that you have enough evidence now in order for the state to step in. Do you have an attorney? They should be helping you in this.

If you were married before she was divorced from her previous husband (a fact I never heard from her), are you legally married? So both you and she have participated in this behavior previously. I pray that you've learned your lesson that this type of behavior is nothing but destructive.

It seems that if she's wanting to spend so much time with Darren, would she not be willing to let you have custody? If she were to get a RO against you, she would have to explain to a judge the reasoning. You'll get to state your case and present evidence. She'll not go that route as it may blow up in her face.

It breaks my heart that men would talk in such a way about a woman. Unfortunately when one lays down with dogs they get up with fleas.

You must remember that she's in the same fog that you were in when you were with OW. It will take time for her to see the light

I commend you on your efforts to protect your sons, your realization that dishonesty is destructive, and that you're dealing with your alcoholism. Good job! Please know that I'll remember you all in my prayers. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by -Nut Cheerios:
<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by jph:
<strong> Jim
I very glad to see that you are taking steps to protect your sons. That is the first task.

If your sons are not allowed to answer the phone when you call, all you have to do is *67 and your number will be blocked or you could call from a friend's home. They can testify to the police, CPS, and school personnel that they are left alone and that they are not being allowed to see you. After repeated instances, surely they could be removed. It seems that you have enough evidence now in order for the state to step in. Do you have an attorney? They should be helping you in this.

If you were married before she was divorced from her previous husband (a fact I never heard from her), are you legally married? So both you and she have participated in this behavior previously. I pray that you've learned your lesson that this type of behavior is nothing but destructive.

It seems that if she's wanting to spend so much time with Darren, would she not be willing to let you have custody? If she were to get a RO against you, she would have to explain to a judge the reasoning. You'll get to state your case and present evidence. She'll not go that route as it may blow up in her face.

It breaks my heart that men would talk in such a way about a woman. Unfortunately when one lays down with dogs they get up with fleas.

You must remember that she's in the same fog that you were in when you were with OW. It will take time for her to see the light

I commend you on your efforts to protect your sons, your realization that dishonesty is destructive, and that you're dealing with your alcoholism. Good job! Please know that I'll remember you all in my prayers. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"></strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thank you jph, the *67 idea is a good one. No, being married while marrying me did not count after a certain period of time; I became aware @ 7 months, when I got a letter in the mail that said her marriage was finally dissolved.

I have put the custody thing out there in a "just let the kids stay with me a while and I'm totally out of the picture" (what I said) kind of way. She did not say No, although today she told me that I would "never take anything from her"...

I do not believe she can get a restraining order against me; she can get one but all it takes is a motion before the court to reverse it- at the worst.

Darren told me on the phone the other night he was going to try to file charges against me, and I was like "I would LOVE to see you go before a judge and try!" He was drunk and calling to see if Lisa was around- I guess now he is jealous???

Anyway, yes, it is going to blow up, you know in a civil court kind of way.

I don't know about the fleas, you know I still love her in some kind of crazy upside down way. But thanks.

Not all men talk like that. Although I've been a dog, I am at least *not* like that!! I learned as a teenager that a gentleman "never tells".

As for lying- Yes I believe it has *got* to be the most destructive behavior to an intimate relationship, especially marriage. Just think- if you never lied, you would never have *anything* to hide, from *anybody*! And if you were having a problem doing something wrong, well then you could ask your spouse to help.

But I've never had the level of honesty I require now from my W, and I do not think she is willing to be honest.

But I *will* say we met tonight and actually HAD DINNER, after me asking 3 1/2 months!! So, I have a new post I want to make, I think maybe a different topic, like WOO-HOO, for instance...

Thanks for the advice. The alcohol turns out to be easier to manage than I feared; when I realize that I have to be "on call" 24x7, because I never know where my kids are or what's happening. You know, I just tell myself "what's more important? a cheap buzz or your kids?? -and of course the answer is so profound.

It reminds me so much of when I had weekend duty on the base in the Coast Guard!

I basically just watch a lot of TV these days- and focus on the story lines. Keeps me occupied, and of course I am very thankful for this community.

Let me know if I should try making a new topic. I am still very new to this.

Thanks, J

"But I *will* say we met tonight and actually HAD DINNER, after me asking 3 1/2 months!! So, I have a new post I want to make, I think maybe a different topic, like WOO-HOO, for instance..."

Can you agree on off-limits-to-argument have-fun-only time for the two of you together? With all the uproar, she is still the woman you married and had children by, and you have been no prize of a husband. Leave your sins -- and hers -- at the door.

With my children, I have established a routine of 1/2 hour/day for a child to have "choice" time -- time they choose for play. Ellie likes hide and seek (she's 2), and Katie likes Candyland, Chutes and Ladders, etc. (Katie's 4). They are better behaved because of this time.