I know there was a case of this - could have been a really long time ago now, not entirely sure... WW was caring for a dying OM, and he did eventually die, I believe.

Just curious if anyone knew who that was or has a search criteria suggestion for me.

No real time for an update right now - no, STBXW's OM isn't dead... will update later.

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 12:16 AM: Message edited by: J.R. ]</small>

I think this may be it

Susan

Wow, Susan, thanks for that, so quickly!

This one's good / interesting... I was actually thinking about another one (!), possibly an older thread, where the OM was dying of a terminal illness as opposed to a heart attack.

Hmmm, this is odd... wonder if it says something... not to be flip, but the stress of A's can't be good for one's health.

Pretty sure Dr. Cru went thru the exact same thing in fact I am sure of it.

Well... Yes, Dr.Cru looks to be an example of a terminal case... BUT... now that I think about it, it was a scenario where the OM was still alive on D-day... The A continued for a while, THEN he died, I believe... !!!

<small>[ January 04, 2004, 11:33 PM: Message edited by: J.R. ]</small>

JR,

If I recall correctly and am thinking of the case you are thinking of, the OM had NOT died at the last posting. WW was off taking care of him many days of the week leaving H and family. Essentially the affair continued while the OM was still dying.

I don't recall the name, but I keep thinking it was a short name. I just don't recall it or I would find it for you. I do recall this poster well though with regard to his story.

Sorry I could not help.

What aspect of this do you need to know about? I may remember some of the details you seek.

God Bless,

JL

JR:

You don't mean "Usedlongago" do you?

But JL knows more about him than I do.

Would love 2 hear your update.

-ol' 2long

Wow, yes JL we're thinking on the same lines here, you know which one I'm thinking about... details aren't too important, I was curious though, based on recent developments...

On Sunday I received a rather long e-mail from STBXW... In it she finally "came clean" with her state of mind over the last year or so. As it turns out, it had much to do with OM, no surprise. In fact OM has a rare cancer. He had voiced concerns about a "bump" last Xmas, the doctors did a biopsy and thought it was benign. It was a mass of blood vessels that were growing excessively. They tried treatments to shrink it but failed to do so.

So this past November he went in for surgery to remove it. He lost a lot of blood and was in ICU for a week. Turns out it's clear cell sarcoma, and it had metastasized - has 3 tumors in his lung and 13 tiny ones elsewhere. He's due to begin radiation and chemo shortly. Also his mother arrived from Korea to help care for him recently.

Anyhow, WW admits that at times she's shocked at where she's at. But she also feels "compelled" to stand by him during these "hard times" (wants to keep at least 1 promise she's made). She even called herself stuck in a "mess", and "there have been times when I felt totally out of control - somehow being drug, kicking and screaming to an unknown destination, unable to change my direction." So reality is definitely sitting there for her - it's no longer about fantasies - but new forces at play. She even equated it with possibly something "supernatural" - being placed there to help OM and his family. Of course to an outside observer, it sounds perposterous, but she knows that her behavior can only be explained by something on that epic level!

I replied to her note on Monday, with the gist being, "I'm sorry to hear this; I don't see much changed between us, so I really think it's best we continue on our path; I'm trying my best to live as well as I can, and I hope we can settle things without complication." (I resisted pointing out that OM has received a benefit of compassion that she deemed me unworthy for.) Basically I'm sure I came across as harsh, which was not even my intent.

To be honest, my feelings are very mixed right now. On one hand, it would have been easiest if I could just blame things on WW's "crazy" state of mind and OM and her were thumbing their noses at everyone - not so seemingly. So mixed in there is yes, some compassion for OM - I met him, he's not "evil", just very naive. I feel bad for him, also knowing he's my age is very sobering. On another hand, I've stated that I'm prepared to move on, and the feelings associated with that are very strong. On yet another hand, I do care for WW. I can see her stuck in this "mess" and I know she's to blame - she really is - but it's still hard to cast blame when someone is going to die - seems way too petty.

And so yes, it sounds like OM's prognosis is poor. The cancer is rare and so treatments tend to be "guesses". He most likely has 1-2 years.

So... I decided that maybe I need to fly a slightly different direction in my healing. Maybe I can express compassion for both WW and OM - and continue to move on with my life - at the same time. I'm actually pretty certain I can pull it off, with some benefits... releasing bitterness - forgiving - all the while finding someone who will respect me enough to give me the same kind of care someday...

So this evening my reply to her was...

"After reading this and letting it sink in a bit more, the enormity of what you've said compels me to say a little more - I hope that's okay.

I realize this is larger than myself - whether supernatural or not doesn't even really matter - it's just larger than me, is what I know with some certainty. I realize life is too short to sit in judgment of others, dwell on the negatives, or wallow in self-pity. Sadly I think I've turned myself against you, too, over time, and for that I feel foolish. Part of my message from before was that I know you can appreciate my spot, too, however - that I've got to live my life as best I can. I know you’d want that for me, I’m sure.

I also know you were my friend before my wife… and if there's anything I can do - anything at all - please don't hesitate to ask - even if it's just offering a word or two of support now and then. I can only imagine the difficulties of caring for someone so sick, and it takes a lot of courage to face it, I'm sure.

I realize there probably isn't much I can do. And I realize it's probably a personal process as well. So I won't be offended by no reply, no worries.

I know you're a strong person, and I do appreciate your honesty and bravery in writing your note. To be honest, it would have been welcomed a while ago."

Some might think that's very magnanimous - some might think I'm enabling her even now. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, as usual.

In the end, the outcome doesn't change, so maybe this is a better path for healing... I'll give it a try, anyhow and see how it goes. I can always adjust my course if needed.

BTW Orchid, I'll give you a shout Weds. night, k?

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 01:01 AM: Message edited by: J.R. ]</small>

Wow JR,

U R certainly one understanding man. U have my utmost respect.

As for your STBXW feeling the need to be there for the OM, isn't his family or mother around? Gotta wonder what they are thinking. Times like these families can tend to pull real tight. She may feel like an 'outcast' of sorts. Does he have any sisters in the area?

I will look forward to your call tomorrow. I have been working late so try the cell 1st. H knows you are going to call, so you can get info from either one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

take care,
L.

O: isn't his family or mother around

JR: Well, his mother is now, at least temporarily - his entire family is in South Korean AFAIK. Her version is that his and his mother's visa's along with his insurance are tenuous too.

O: Gotta wonder what they are thinking

JR: Korean values from what I understand place a great importance on the institution of marriage - so maybe they expect them to get married, or *are* married, or some such thing - who knows. I could imagine it's one of the things that makes WW think she's in the middle of a "mess". I think like a lot of WS, she can't see herself going off and getting married again to someone else so easily. So that's got to be a conflict right there.

O: She may feel like an 'outcast' of sorts

JR: I think she may in some ways - the cultural differences are probably a lot more obvious with his mother around. I think she realizes she hasn't come by the designation of "family member" in an honest way, even if they do welcome her.

O: Does he have any sisters in the area?

JR: Nope, WW's boss lost her H to cancer last spring too, so she's taking it very hard by the sounds of it. They all likely try to help out, the entire group.

O: U R certainly one understanding man

JR: Ugh, I don't know. I just don't have the energy to be all angry right now. I also definitely don't have the energy to sit around and wait for her / him to die, as morbid as that sounds. If it were earlier during this - maybe in the first year - there's a chance I could hack it for a while.

I guess I do need to remind myself that she isn't helpless, she could help ensure he'll be taken care of and transition out of his life... but she chooses to be where she is. And it is a choice that implies someone else is more important to her than I am - which tells me I'm on the right path. I'm just changing my "delivery" a bit - not for her, but for me - who do I want to be.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by J.R.:
<strong>I guess I do need to remind myself that she isn't helpless, she could help ensure he'll be taken care of and transition out of his life... but she chooses to be where she is. And it is a choice that implies someone else is more important to her than I am - which tells me I'm on the right path. I'm just changing my "delivery" a bit - not for her, but for me - who do I want to be. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">stbxw is stuck where she is ... it is her choice. Similiar to my exW, you could wait for a very long long time. You have no kid and I know you are a catch for many ladies out there. Right now you should stop being a rescuer even for her and take care of you own interest first.

Live Love & Leran -rh-

JR,

To further answer your question. I don't think that poster ever posted again, so the results were never resolved with regard to what we know.

I do think your approach is both very healthy for you, and comforting for your W. You are right she made a major decision for her life and she decide in favor of OM. I think you are right to move on, but I do think your response to her was a very very good thing.

I strongly believe that you will look back on this experience and realize that you have grown enormously and that it will increase you enjoyment of life from now on.

God Bless,

JL

Hi J.R. - ditto JL.

You're a better man than me. I tried to imagine myself if my XW's OM (now H) was in a similar fix. Not sure what I'd do. But I've said on this forum before that if he got run over by a truck today, I'd say, "it couldn't happen to a more deserving guy." Maybe a sudden, accidental death, invoking Karma, permits such attitude whereas a long, slow illness provokes more compassion. Seems counterintuitive, huh?

I vaguely remember the previous poster you mentioned, but I can't place him. I DO remember the rukus created in Bandit's thread - describing a death of an OM - in which I and others jokingly and tongue-in-cheek chided Bandit to tell us how he did it. Boy, did THAT bring out the humor challenged! Ooops, were you one of them? We caught never ending grief for making light of the OM's passing. Where is the line crossed between having no sympathy for pond scum and "humanely" professing a bleeding heart? I won't pretend to know.

WAT

<small>[ January 07, 2004, 08:36 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

"I can see her stuck in this "mess" and I know she's to blame - she really is - but it's still hard to cast blame when someone is going to die - seems way too petty."

Bull feathers.

Life, including traumatic slow death, happens 2 all of us. ALL of us. What does any of that have 2 do with "doing the right thing" by those we're committed 2?

No, J.R., this isn't so much compassion on her part, as it is yet one more excuse for avoiding responsibility.

You are a good man, and good because you can see yourself as able 2 forgive and be a friend 2 your W, and even maybe the OM. Not a lot of people could be so selfless. I take my hat off 2 you, because I would like 2 be able 2 do the same if I ever get 2 a point where I have 2.

We're all going 2 face death even2ally. Ours, our loved ones, our "enemies." That's hard when it happens, but it's not something we get 2 choose 2 avoid. Losing a loved one due 2 misplaced, irrationalized loyalties and lack of basic integrity can be harder, because it IS something that could have been avoided. If only your STBXW could put this all in2 perspective. I doubt she can, or if she does it'll be far 2 late for you. But I hope that she does for her, someday.

best,
-ol' 2long

The general theme from the crew seems to be "you should definitely keep moving forward, can't spend more of your life waiting" - and I'm totally there... A year ago, this might have drawn me back in - now, no way.

I don't think her response to this is necessarily even going to require me to be friends with her. She may pull out the anger or blame card, still. My point in my response about life being too short for dwelling on the negatives - I said it in relation to me, but maybe she can relate it to herself, too - if she wanted any hope of civility, she'd have to let go of her axe.

But I think I'm so far past the point of being sucked into this that it becomes possible for me to extend my hand a bit. Not to "rescue" in any way, but to let go of my own anger and such.

You've got a good memory, WAT! Yeah, I remember making some comments a long time ago, when things were quite raw. And at this point I'm not claiming to be some kind of saint - it's a mix of things going on and I'm just more willing to go with the flow - maybe especially because I'm seeing what will be possible with someone else (more healthy). Having complete detachment from her would still be best in many ways - but I guess I'm realizing I can pull off whatever I want to pull off, in terms of myself.

I suspect I'm actually living a life that she'd want to live. Her choices lead her to working long hours and waiting on a man - not exactly the kind of independence I imagine she was looking for! (Lots of ironies in this in general.)

You're right 2long, life ends for everyone. And I still think about the fact that the promise she's chosen to keep is with someone else. She's resorted to explanations by the supernatural, and how can anyone argue against that. So yeah, fundamentally nothing has changed, and sadly I suspect that's true in her addictive state also. Every now and then she gets a moment of clarity, writes me a lucid note, more (constant) contact with OM, and back into the fog.

I'm still prodding her to please get with her lawyer and come up with a settlement offer. I'd like to avoid costly settlement conferences and such that are only going to waste time and not change the outcome. She's used the phrase "doesn't support" my filing - not "doesn't want" - who knows what she tells to others.

Orchid, I fell asleep on my couch at 8:00 last night, so my call will have be to today!

JR,

Just got home a about 30 minutes ago. Working long hours, have to do laundry, clean up and get some shut eye.

Will give you a ring tomorrow. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

L.