Jazzey..

In true marriagebuilding theory...you can't "do" plan b....as prescribed here..because you haven't been in a good plan A as of late...

not a slam...just a fact...

one of the huge stressors with your situation is the legal invovlement kept a lot of this pain alive and fresh...so that you really havent' had that time in which the ex-ow hasn't played some part in your life..

And add to that each of yours own part in keeping the "drama" of that alive...focus on court dates etc..(understandable)

So every so often you and he post here....and it's so difficult to get feel for things..

poor thing you sound hurt and angry and not in a good place....
and his posts are ambigious at best...asking for help then dissappearing....with no feedback to those that offer advice....

And now add to this a three-week old...

I am dismayed that he is out of the house at this time in your lives...with a new baby home..with you needing to rest and heal...
why now when you need him...?

I think you need to look at the bigger picture of your marriage....
I think you need to really look inside and see if you yourself can put the type of reconcilliation you desire on hold for a bit to heal and let him come home and help with the newborn...for your health and sanity..
I am concerned that him being out now will back fire down the line and become that he abandoned you when you had a newborn and will become one more hurdle to get over..
and I think you really need to think about the reality of raising this baby without the father...

So while I am not saying save this marriage at any cost...
I am saying that you should look at it new now that you are distraction free from the OW...and even if there are any more legal crappolla..let it all go and focus on the fAMILY....
and see if he won't committ to real counseling and give up this need to fix everything on just a financial level so justify not being there...cause he has to work....etc...

And you and I have discussed before your own role in recovery....
that you need to start there...even in all the unfairness of it...

but mostly with a newborn you need time to adjust and sleep and take care of you...
and if he is willing to help you do that...and you are willing to accept that help...
then I think you should that route untill you are stronger to make good decisions...

the baby needs dad...
you need the help..even if it is so that down the road you can't say he didn't help you 'when"...

jazzey in all honesty..there is something to be gained for you for the anger...
you need to look at what it is you gain from it..
see how much time and energy you are 'angry'..
etc...

You asked and this is my opinion....
I wish you well
ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by JazzeyGirl:
<strong> So now what???? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Get a solid plan A for a specific period of time. If there is no impact then go to plan B .... one step at the time ... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

-rh-

There is always chance of a recovery. The question is are you going to commit to what it takes, or are you done trying? It's my opinion that if you were truly done you wouldn't be asking the question "is there a chance". That, to me, means you hope there is one.

If you and your H are always fighting when you're together then the two of you are still both trying to be right, and not working together to DO WHAT WORKS!

So decide - you want him to make a decision, but you can't control him, so YOU decide - do you want this marriage or not? If you do, then you have to change it. And yes, it is possible and you can do it.

Step 1 would be to drop the resentment. Your situation isn't ideal...it isn't a bed of roses...and people deal with worse. So accept your situation as what it is, and strive to make it BETTER. You don't LIKE how it is now, so quit adding to the misery!! Honestly, an attitude change can change a situation drastically. You don't have to constantly defend your right to be angry or sad. You feel what you feel. And your husband does NOT have to feel the same way or agree with how YOU feel or even UNDERSTAND how you feel. It would be NICE if he sympathized...and he probably would if you two were on the same side...but right now it brings about more guilt and resentment for him. So don't try to force him to understand how you feel.

The other suggestion I would have - and feel free to strongly disagree, but it was the ONLY thing that worked for us - is that if you DO TRULY COMMIT to making your marriage work, you move your husband back in. Set ground rules if you need to, but the two of you can't work to be married if you're not acting like you are. Neither of you will take the commitment seriously when he gets to go home when things are getting tough. You need help with the baby, he needs to be there, the kids need and want him there. If you want to make it work, it's time to work productively towards that goal. And the more you say "I can't" the more you won't.

So make a decision. Don't worry about it being the 'right' one. Nothing is ever 100% right.

JG can you get your H to come back to the board and post again?

I can see why you are at your wit's end.

From following your story I know that you've worked hard but been inconsistent in expectations and in the LB dept.

However, your H has been very inconsistent in doing what he's supposed to do.

Not sure if we can help him but might be worth a try.

Jazzeygirl, I'd like to disagree with what others have said to you. I know you haven't been in a good Plan A, but that DOES NOT mean you can't go into Plan B. As Cerri/Penny says with some regularity, all that's really required is to show that you're willing to change and grow in order to protect your spouse and meet his or her needs, and to express your hurt over the affair. Plan A can be done in a letter if it has to be.

So if you're in a place where you simply cannot control your Love Busters, it's better to get yourself into Plan B than it is to stick around and do more damage.

What I really want to know is this: Have you started preparing for Plan B? Do you have the logistics in place?

Jazzy, it really doesn't sound like your husband is acting commited to anything. He certainly sounds like he isn't taking anything too seriously right now.

Plan B may absolutely be in order. It still doesn't mean you have to give up - just detach for a while. If you do a solid Plan B for 3-6 months, you'll have time to calm down and make sure you're ready to head out in to life on your own. And it will give your husband that one last chance to clean up his act and start acting like a responsible adult, instead of an immature teenager. If he doesn't - you'll know that he's not on the same path in life you are and you'll know you gave it all you had, and then some.

Plan B is really quite pleasant - try it, you will like it. It can be done with children, you have NC except for issues dealing with kids. Then you will get time to look at marriage and all that is going on. It helps to get off the rollercoaster.

Jazzey..
you can't do plan B...you haven't been in and done a strong plan A....

Jazzey again with you I think you will find yourself in a better place...when you look at you and what you can and can not control...

soooo much focus has been on the legal crap of this OW that kept things alive a lot longer than others...it in someways kept you out of recovery....

This is the first time ever if all the legal stuff is finally over that it is just the two of you with all that behind you....

And in so on one level it gives you perhaps the first chance at really reconcilling without her in the picture....

are you thinking of writing a plan b letter...
what would it say..
and honestly jazzey do you have any love left for him in your love bank at all?

here's some on plan b...and I think you should read all about it... before making a decision...


In other cases, such as annoying behavior or failure to meet important emotional needs, where thoughtlessness does not reach the level of physical or mental abuse, plan A should be given quite a bit of time and effort before resorting to plan B. Remember, plan A is negotiating (without anger, disrespect or demands) to eliminate the annoying behavior or improve the meeting of emotional needs. A blanket agreement between spouses to follow the Policy of Joint Agreement goes a long way toward eliminating these thoughtless acts, and can also help couples learn to meet each other's needs with enthusiasm. But without that policy, couples often find that they cannot get anywhere with each other through negotiation, and sometimes separation can eventually lead to mutual recognition that they need the Policy of Joint Agreement to help them resolve conflicts.

But, as I mentioned earlier, the risks of separation are great. It should be used only as a last resort to help resolve a fatal flaw in marriage. Once separated, couples often never do reconcile, remaining separated for life, or they eventually divorce. A fact unknown to many is that fifteen to twenty percent of all married couples end their lives permanently separated. These, who are not included in divorce statistics, usually feel that they should not legally divorce for religious reasons. But for most practical purposes, they are as divorced as those legally divorced. Their separation did not create the opportunity for reconciliation, but rather, created an even higher barrier between spouses.

So whenever spouses separate, I usually encourage a plan that moves them toward eventual reconciliation.


have you two even tried pojaing anything...you two are good canidates since you know the jargon....

and are you in marriage counseling...
it's a mixed message you are sending...
you want to plan b...but plan b is done to save a marriage...and you don't speak of wanting to save the marriage....

jazzey there has been ooodles of drama in this case...and drama can be addicting and energizing...even while it drains us...
is this not the exact time to seek out lessening all the drama since the OW is really gone....now..
and begin to poja and rebuild..
in counselling etc...


can you see any good in your husband....
have you told him specific realistic things you want....
are you able not to bring up the past...in which he can not change...

plan b is to save the marriage...
do you want to save this marriage...and if you do..then you will have to stop focusing on him and focus back on you...
control your lbs...
let go of punishments
learn again what is it like to be drama free....

quit listing what he does and doesn't do...
and work on you...
you must be in counsellng...
must...

I know i have ticked you off in the past...
I know you are hurting and have been for a long time..
but i think part of it is that this pain is known and familiar to you...and it has become a cycle and pattern...
and that the both of you can overcome this...

I could be wrong...but I am not convinced that you can call what you want to do plan b..

ARK

I guess all I have to say about ark's post is that when someone is hurting so badly that they can't control the LBs, it no longer matters what Plan A looked like. At that point, they are the danger to the marriage.

Now. Having said that, Jazzey, DO you want this marriage? That's a darned good question Ark asked.

And another good question. Can you do a SOLID Plan A for even a few days? With no crying, no yelling, no complaining? Comforting him when he's crying, not limiting his access to the kids, etc. etc. etc.? If you can, great! Get to it.

But I think you're waaaaaaaay past that. Plan A, for women, is not recommended to last more than three months. You've been in regular contact with your husband for so much longer than that it's not even funny, and it's hurting you enough that YOU are starting to be a danger to your marriage.

Having said all that, Plan B is possible with kids. It's even possible to go through an intermediary for kid-related stuff. I know of at least two couples who've done that. It is NOT easy, but it's possible.

How you do it depends on the ages of your kids, but there are always options for doing it.

Changed my opinion already. Listen to ark. I read statistics that once separated, only 10% of married couples get back together. Plan B should be used as last resort.

Oh my goodness, you seem like you are in a very bad place. Are you doing anything for yourself? You cannot do everything.

Your H sounds like mine - he refuses to do anything around the house. The good side of that is it has been easy for me in Plan B - I hardly realize he is gone.

For example we have the dog argument. It is his dog, but while he was running around with OW, he spent about 5 minutes a month with dog. So I took dog over to his daughter's and dropped her off. I told H that I can't deal with the dog missing him and waiting for him. Anyway the dog has been gone for 3 months. Finally H had no place to leave her. I agreed to take her back. You guessed it, he dumped her off and hasn't walked her or seen her in a week.

But back to the problem. Have you thought about filing for bankruptcy? That's what I did. H would not give me any money and I got tired of doing the whole thing myself.

It just seems like there has to be some way to help yourself out of this mess. Plan B might wake up H. It really has not done anything for us. My H says all the right things, but does nothing. He says it takes all of his energy just to get up in the morning and get through the day.

Jazzy, you keep telling your husband how you feel - have you told him, very specifically, what it is you want him to do and to not do? In a BRIEF statement? Because he starts toning you out about 3 sentences in to an "I feel" conversation.

Men don't 'hear' feelings, and they don't really understand what you say the way you do. Your frustration has you dealing with the situation as a woman, and his frustration has him dealing with it as a man. Your saying one thing and he hears another. It's not a matter of him not listening - although he may not be - it's more than likely a matter of him not understanding and not even realizing that he doesn't understand.

Figure out what you DO want him to do. State it briefly, and even write it out (like a to do list) if you have to. But leave how you 'feel' conversations to a minimum. You can tell us how you feel, we understand!