This is my story

Female age 36 WS-age 36
Known 18 years Married 7 years
DD age 5
OW - 28/unmarried
8/sep/03 - Dday
14/sep/03 - he ended A
22/sep/03 - Dday but promise to end A
29/sep/03 - Lied again
17/0ct/03 - WS called her on the HP and told OW he is ending the A
19/Oct/03 - I sms the OW and told her to stay away. She replied saying she will not find him anymore
28/Dec/03 - Caught him lying and told him to move out the next day.
29/Dec/03 - Gave him a Plan B letter
5/Jan/03 - Broke silent. Met him to ask about finances. Told him i wanted everything he has. He did not object.
6/Jan/03 - My mother got us an appointment with a marriage counselor at church. I called him over tonight. I told him about it and he agreed to meet with the counselor if i wanted to. I broke my silent twice and i am a bit confuse. Is breaking of silent mean i am not doing a good job with my plan B? I still have not asked him to come back. I told him i will only take him back if he agreed to all my conditions. He is having trouble agreeing to condition no 1 which is telling who the OP is...her name etc etc. He is very afraid that i will go after the OW. I told him by hiding her identity from me means he is not being honest.

At the same time, he is totally guilty about the whole EA. It is not a PA so he says. He still loves me and our daughter. He knows he is supposed to make the right decision but he just doesn't know when. He regrets for what has happened. He mentioned about wanting to see a priest to ask why this thing happened. I feel only God can help him now or is there anything else i could do for him?????

He asked me if i wanted to go for an overnight trip to the island this weekend. I do not know if this will do me good or bad. So should i go for the trip or should i decline?

I printed some of the MB articles and he is reading it. It feels like he wants to get out of this addiction but is unable to move anywhere. I want to help him but i don't know what else to do??

As for me, i am okay now. I don't feel so depressed like i was before. I still hate the feeling of losing someone but since accepting the fact...i am feeling a little bit at peace. I have moved on...got myself a job, changed my wardrobe and made myself look good again. Even he notice the changes.

I still want to save this marriage but i don't know how to go from here. i thought of giving the counseling a chance. I don't know if it will work but at least he wanted to try. Then again he had not ended his affair with OW!!! So it is a little confuse here. Do i go on with my plan B of no see no talk while at the same time do the counseling?

Please give some advice.

Zizzycool,

I'm newly returned to this website and there are others who have more wisdom than I, but you said a couple of things I'd like to comment on.

I think if he's willing to go to a counselor you should definitely go! If he's still involved with the OP the counselor can hopefully see that and point out to your WH that he needs NC, and maybe give some ideas on how to be successful at achieving NC.

I'm not sure why you care who the OP is. I understand the desire to know, but you should ask yourself - will that really help anything? I have found, as the WS, that it's better to focus as much as possible on the marriage. Try not to get bogged down in the specifics of the A, but try to see the A only as it relates to your M and how your M can be improved.

Maybe it would be better to know if the OP is someone your H sees on a daily basis and how he plans to accomplish NC. Or if the OP is long distance then you and your H can plan to share all computer accounts and passwords, and cell phone bills, etc.

I don't see how you can be in Plan B and going to a counselor; what if the counselor gives you exercises to do together? But then I don't have experience with Plan B so maybe someone else has some good insights about that.

turtlehead

I wanted to know the OW identity previously but like i said he refuse to tell and still i took him back and he made promises to end A. After 3 promises, i felt by NOT telling me who OW really is, he is not completely honest and MB believes on complete honesty. I also believe that. Why should he not tell me?????

I want to do Plan B because i cannot continue with Plan A anymore. I finally realized that i can tolerate the emptiness in my life without him but i do not think i can take another lie from him because that hurts more than words can say.

I have never been to any marriage counseling so i do not know how this will work. It is a priest who will be giving the counseling. I hope for the best.

Zizzycool,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wanted to know the OW identity previously but like i said he refuse to tell and still i took him back and he made promises to end A. After 3 promises, i felt by NOT telling me who OW really is, he is not completely honest and MB believes on complete honesty. I also believe that. Why should he not tell me?????</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That makes a LOT of sense to me. You've had three promises broken, a simple token gesture of honesty is not too much to ask for, in my opinion.

<small>[ January 14, 2004, 08:05 AM: Message edited by: turtlehead ]</small>

It's very simple. Tell him if he doesn't reveal who the OW is, that you'll be forced to hire a private detective.

Were is he living? Are you really sure it's just an EA? It took my h a long time before he finally admitted what I knew in my heart-it was more than an EA.

It seems you went to Plan B quickly. It's very common for the A to not end on D-day. Like any addiction, it's difficlt to break. Plan B is used when the love bank about depleted. Emotional needs are hard to meet when you're not living together.

If he willing to go to counseling then by all means, go.

JPH

If i threat him with private detective then its like threating and that i think is a love buster

He is living with his brother who is himself divorce twice. I don't really know if it is just EA or maybe he is lying like sh*t. But he insisted that at the moment it is just EA coz he did not have the opportunity to go further...

This ding dong and lies had been going on for more than 3 months. I have had enough of it. Btw whose love bank being depleted are u talking about? Mine or his?

yes we did go for that counseling. The priest wanted to meet him alone on the 21st. That is like 2 weeks away!! I almost told the priest that it is too long to wait for me!!! But it seemed the priest is going away for a week for some gathering.

I know emotional needs are hard to meet when you're not living together but what else could i do...i cannot live with him while he is still with OW!!!!...I just cannot live with him knowing OW is still in the picture. It is against everything that is ME. I do not share my man. If he is not mine and it is better he is not with me.

I have had so many bad nights since he left. I cried like stupid. Really total mental anguish. I do not want to be like that anymore. I need to climb out of that hole he had put me in.

He is like in some kind of fog and nothing can get through...he is a typical classic case of all the wayward spouse story u find in here. Some i read can last for years. I do not think i can wait years. I do not think i can last 3 months!!! Meaning i myself might stray looking to fill my own emptyness.

Looks to me that you&#8217;re rushing things a bit. Like in the Grolsh beer advert &#8220;shtop &#8211; good things take time&#8221;.
What I mean is: 1) he agreed a bit too quickly &#8220;stopping&#8221; the A. maybe he seriously wanted, but simply was lured back. At that point you should have grabbed him at the short and curlies and dragged to a marriage councillor, and do all you can . 2) you went a bit too quickly to plan B. the reason why you are tempted/obliged to talk to him (again) is simple &#8211; you haven&#8217;t tried it all yet, there is still hope. Particularly, I miss in your description anything along the lines of plan A.

So, what should you do now? I&#8217;d revert back to plan A, combined with counselling &#8211; but only if you can and only if you don&#8217;t risk to lose your last bit of love you have for him in the process.

Take care
N

I agree with the others. PLAN A is essential before PLAN B. Go back to PLAN A even if that means asking him to come back home. MB is a process that must be followed carefully in order for it to be effective.

The key is to work on meeting his ENs. Read up on PLAN A basics here or in the books HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS or SURVIVING AN AFFAIR by the Harleys.

Yes, you are moving too fast. This takes time and delicate steps.

TIME AND PATIENCE!!! ALSO, DEVELOPING A GOOD PLAN!!!

Yes, maybe i went a bit too fast. yes maybe i did NOT do everything enough in Plan A. Now that i think about it yes, i think i did NOT do enough of giving him EN in Plan A. I thought i did but maybe just not enough. I have not made him see a happy future for him with me. He did say that he feels empty and miserable living with me during that 3 months when he was supposed to be NOT in contact with her and he was.

Yes, i can take him back and yes i think if i ask he will come back. But WHAT ABOUT THE OTHER WOMAN??? He is not letting her go. He will not agreed to end it with her. So how do i take him back if he does not agree to that???? You mean i should take him back, give him all the EN while he still goes behind my back cheating on me? What can i ask from him so i won't feel like a doormat?

Are u SURE this is the way coz if it is i am willing to try...?????

Read up on PLAN A in the HARLEY's BOOK or on this website. Yes, PLAN A is meeting ENs without LOVEBUSTING.

You guys,

Is taking the WH back and trying a Plan A really the best route to go if he's still involved with OW?

My H told me about his EA and then openly continued to stay in contact with her for several more months. At the time, I endured it because he told me if I asked him for NC he'd walk out the door. I was afraid of losing him and I sucked it up and did the best Plan A I knew how to do.

In retrospect, I'm not sure it was the best thing for me to do. I mean, we're doing TONS better now than we were almost 2 years ago when he told me of his EA, but I'm also left with memories of him getting paged as he sat down to dinner and excusing himself so he could go chat online with her. Those are memories I could do without.

So, I think the bottom line is zizzy needs to know she can endure living with him while he's involved with OW. It is really hard to do, and the memories are hard to live with. On the other hand, zizzycool can do a much better Plan A if her H is living with her. Tough choice!

Comments?

TURTLE AND ZIGGY:

I repeat. My success at Recoverying my marriage is TOTALLY DUE to my following the MB principles as closely as possible. Read SURVIVING AN AFFAIR and HIS NEEDS/HER NEEDS. Get out your underliner and follow the PLAN A principles closely. There is no way around this if you want your marriage to recover. I can tell from your posts that you have not studied the Principles or may not understand them.

Study the principles and then come back for our help on implementing them. This is not a place to question the MB approach by trying to do things your way. I'm sorry if this sounds harsh but I would want for you or anybody what I have, a better marriage than ever! I learned from my FWH's A what I needed to do to better meet his needs. I accepted my part in creating the climate for the A. You will not progress until you really accept your part in this. Sure your WS is wrong for doing this to you but you have to also do your part now if you really want your marriage to recover!

<small>[ January 09, 2004, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: mimi1254 ]</small>

okay...i spoke to him for almost 3 hours...he just left. It is 1am here now. I am so mentally tried can't even sleep.

I tried to convince him to come back and make the marriage work. Finally he said sorry but he does not want to. My heart almost broke. I almost gave up. Then i spoke to him again trying to make him see the light. Again he was undecided. By then i was too tired so i told him i will try to convince him again another day.

He loves me. He knows he should be doing the right thing. He said that i did not do anything wrong and that he was the wrong one. He puts all the blame on himself. But the strong feeling for the OW is so strong and he just could not promise me anything. Is this the sign that there is still hope coz i sure don't know.

He also said that he could not tell me her name or give the letter of NC but he is willing to break off with her...is that acceptable. I told him no. I told him that by him saying that it means he is still not ready to give her up and then along the way he will break his promise again. I told him that this is not what i will accept. So i left it like that and said i will try to convince and talk to him again on Sunday. I did not any LB during our talk so i think i did okay there.

I also told him that he can come home to visit us anytime or to call me. So i am keeping it open for now.

Mimi - thanks for the reminder to re-read about Plan A. What I was questioning was not the wisdom of zizzycool doing a Plan A, but of taking her WH back while he is still involved with the OW. I didn't make that clear in my post. Taking him back makes it easier to meet his ENs and show her willingness to work things out, but it is also a heck of a lot more painful.

Zizzycool - it sounds like you did a fabulous job. I'm proud of you for setting boundaries and sticking to them without love busting. You did well to remind him he can come home any time. It seems that a lot of the time WSs want to return home but don't know how becuase they feel so guilty. I think you did very well!

Okay i drop my pride and told him just now to come back tomorrow. He still did not want to give me any answers but he did say that since i drop my pride to ask him back then he should also give up his own pride. Duh??? Is that good or bad. I almost scream at him but i kept remembering that demanding is a LB...so i am hoping the best.

I hope he comes back. Then i will try to negotiate for total honesty and to write NC to OW. At the same time i will keep giving him EN.

Someone told me that MB process of Plan A is hard...impossibly hard for a BS but it is also a process of making us BS stronger to face the possible unavoidable Plan B. After facing the hardness of Plan A we get stronger and by the time comes...i guess i know by then that i am ready for Plan B.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zizzycool:
<strong> Okay i drop my pride and told him just now to come back tomorrow. He still did not want to give me any answers but he did say that since i drop my pride to ask him back then he should also give up his own pride. Duh??? Is that good or bad. I almost scream at him but i kept remembering that demanding is a LB...so i am hoping the best.

I hope he comes back. Then i will try to negotiate for total honesty and to write NC to OW. At the same time i will keep giving him EN.

Someone told me that MB process of Plan A is hard...impossibly hard for a BS but it is also a process of making us BS stronger to face the possible unavoidable Plan B. After facing the hardness of Plan A we get stronger and by the time comes...i guess i know by then that i am ready for Plan B. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">U R asking for him to come back to appease your need not his. His need right now is to burn and crash.

Ever heard of dopamine? It is a chemical in your brain. Here's an excerpt from WAT's post a while back:

"Dopamine is the "love drug" and like stimulus drugs, the brain's response to it can have addictive characteristics.

Dr. Wilson also described the results of new research that he expected to be published today in the journal "Science" that links the effects of dopamine directly to the brain's hard wired "oops response." (I'll try to find a link and post it here later - see below.) As he described it, the "oops response" is that automatic, self checking reaction that normally permits the recognition of impending danger or poor judgement. The more dopamine on the loose in the brain, the less effective the "oops response" becomes. This is one explanation for why people on dopamine highs due to drugs - or love for that matter - do such stupid things. The poor judgements are obvious to everyone except themselves. They don't pause for "oops!'"

So if you take him back and expect him to function as a normal H while in this doped up fog A state, you c/b setting yourself and him up to fail. Why? Because he may not be ready to get back to reality.

IMHO, leave him out there. You will hurt but he needs to want you back. Bringing him back prematurely will only diminish your value in his eyes.....in this foggy state, hurting you emotionally gives the A a high. He may not stop because you bring him home. Leading to a false recovery and lots of anguish with many LB losses on your part.

Think carefully about your offer.
L.

I read back again MB concept and read all the posting. Plan A is risky and harder but the time period is 6 months before we do Plan B that is what i read in the Q&A column.

I do not believe he thinks little of me by asking him to come back because if he does then he won't come back coz that is a feeling of LB

He is doped up fog A state and i am taking a sure risk of being hurt and lied again. I am expecting that coz from reading all the posting in here only Plan B seemed to work.

There will be false recovery and lots of anguish with many LB losses on my part but it will make it easier for me to do Plan B in the end. And at least i showed to him that there is happiness in living with me coz i am sure i did not do Plan A right in the first place. At least i know in my heart i did all the best that i could do to save this marriage.

I won't let go of honesty and NC letter. I will try to negiotiate and make him see the right thing to do. I know he is blinded by the fog but i must try. If i failed then i will go to Plan B and by then also my love bank would have been depleted and doing Plan B will be easier to handle.

Ziggy:

I support your plan. I think you are on target.

You are in for a painful rollercoaster ride. Try to hang in there.

Do the best PLAN A that you can, realizing as you say, that it may not breakthrough the fog. However, it will keep him on the fence.

I followed the MB principles as closely as possible. PLAN A, PLAN B and yes the false recoveries but I truly believe after my year in hell my FWH is home to stay.

It was all well worth it.

zizzy,
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am expecting that coz from reading all the posting in here only Plan B seemed to work.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It doesn't always have to go to Plan B. I never did and my m is better is than ever. Hang in there, he agreed to counseling, go or call the Harley's or Cerri and get help.

I second what Mimi said after a year of Hell my H and I have a wonderful marriage.

Maybe he doesn't tell you b/c he doesn't feel safe in telling you. Let him see that you can handle whatever he says in a non lbing way and the honesty will come.

le

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zizzycool:
<strong> Okay i drop my pride and told him just now to come back tomorrow. He still did not want to give me any answers but he did say that since i drop my pride to ask him back then he should also give up his own pride. Duh??? Is that good or bad. I almost scream at him but i kept remembering that demanding is a LB...so i am hoping the best.

I hope he comes back. Then i will try to negotiate for total honesty and to write NC to OW. At the same time i will keep giving him EN.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">zizzy, Plan A is a program designed to attract them back. Right now you are not really in a position to demand no contact or total honesty. You are not at that level of recovery yet. Trying to educate him and making demands will only push him away and make the OW look more attractive. Pleading or begging for him to come back will also have a negative effect. Don't ask him anymore right now who the OW is.

That is great that he agreed to counseling, however, it is of little value if he is not interested right now in repairing your marriage. So I woulnd't push MC right now unless he wants it. Its much more important to concentrate on attracting him back so that he WANTS to work on your marriage. See what I mean?

For now, please just calm down and act happy and confident around him. Don't push, cajole or nag him to come back. Tell him, you hope he comes back, but that has to be HIS decision. Put it all in his lap.

Granted, it would have been so much easier to do Plan A if you hadn't made him move out, but there is still hope here IF you stick to a CLEAN Plan A.

<small>[ January 10, 2004, 10:43 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>