I could not do Plan A. I had one whole day of mixed feelings and dread to go back into a life with him still pinning for the OW. I just could not do it. It is just too stressful.

I spoke to him over the telephone. Yes, he still refuse to tell me who she is or to the non contact letter. And so i told him that i am going to go back to Plan B.

I tried to think of all the reasons i have said in here and all the advice that all of you have given to try Plan A again. I just could not do it. I will be lying to myself. My heart is just not in it to live with a man that is not interested to make this marriage work. i get so stressed out just thinking that here i am planning to go back into working Plan A and knowing very well he is not trying hard enough himself to stop this EA. Knowing also he is going to lie to me again and again. No, i just cannot do it.

So here it is an official Plan B for me. I want Plan B...it is easier and less stressful for me.

I have not given up to save this marriage if he wants to try again but he must give me her name as his honesty and the NC letter to show commitment in making this marriage work. No way will i take him back unless he do that. I am afraid of the end. I am afraid to lose him completely. But MB did say that if it does then my plan B saved me from a lot of untold sorrow.

He has wreak untold damage on my self-confidence, emotional well-being, physical health and sense of stability and security. And to go back into PLan A with nothing for me to grasp on is for myself to get wreak AGAIN for the 4th time!! I cannot do it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zizzycool:
<strong> I could not do Plan A. I had one whole day of mixed feelings and dread to go back into a life with him still pinning for the OW. I just could not do it. It is just too stressful.

I spoke to him over the telephone. Yes, he still refuse to tell me who she is or to the non contact letter. And so i told him that i am going to go back to Plan B.

</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ok, making threats and angry demands isn't working, so what will be your next steps? You are THROWING him into the arms of the OW by behaving like this. Do you realize that? If you were a man, who would you choose? A shrill, demanding, angry wife or a sweet, kind, adoring OW? C'mon, Zizzy, you are HELPING the other woman!

You are supposed to be on *YOUR* side, not hers!

Zizzy, I will just point out to you that Plan B will be a relief for him at this point. You do realize that, don't you? After you have made angry demands and disrespectful judgements, he will be relieved to have an excuse not to endure this.

Consider this, zizzy. I know it galls you to try to meet the needs and avoid lovebusters of a WS. I understand that. But he is a sick man in the throes of an addiction. You won't get him out of the addiction by throwing vinegar on him. You will attract him out with HONEY, though.

See, he is going to come out from under this cloud some day and come back to his senses no matter what. Depending on how you act during this time you can either burn that bridge or you can cool your jets and have a chance of recovering your marriage. You won't have any chance if you cause so much damage that you literally THROW him in the arms of the OW.

Thanks for your advice Melody.

Guess what though! He turned up that night at 9pm. I asked him why was he here. And he told me to see how i was doing because i sounded so distress over the telephone. I did not any LB during our talk yesterday evening. In fact i was quite cheerful the whole time and i took the opportunity to negotiate again. This is what came out of it. I told him since he is still undecided and it looks like he will forever be undecided, i said why not give a month trial with me. Let me show happiness in living with me and if he still cannot get over her by the end of the one month then we separate for good. Of course condition one and two still stand.

In fact he actually agreed to NC letter but i told him even if i agreed to that how would i KNOW he is sending the letter to OW since i am not allowed to know her name and address!!!??? So there u go another deadlock.

Here is the juicy part. Found out that OW is starting to get clingy...he said she became just like me (crying & emotionally workedup) whenever OW feels like she is about to be dump! Did that cheer me up!! Now i have the advantage of MB strategy and she doesn't <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Now i am having second thought about my offer for month even WITH the 1st and 2nd condition fulfilled. I am scared he will lie again and i get hurt again. I hate that feeling of betrayed.

I kept telling him he needs to find GOD to get him on the right path. I think he knows that too in his heart. I thought of telling him that only after he has found GOD again then only will i let him back home. I think i will feel safe to try again only after God is back in his life.

zizzy, that sounds like a good start. You have a much better chance of saving your marriage if he is home than not. Did he agree? Is he coming home?

And yes, he probably does need God, but trying to educate him is a love buster and only serves to push him away.

Good news about the OW!

Ziggy:

I'm glad you decided to try PLAN A. Think of it as the only option right now to recover your marriage.

It is important not to focus on anything but YOUR PLAN. Try not to think about what he needs to do or you will LB by being too demanding. Also try not to talk about the OW with him. He is still in the fog and connnected to her. Unfortunately, you will need to accept that. Talking about her will remind him of her. Regardless of what she does negatively he may see it positively. Now you need to build up your deposits with him to match or exceed her level.

The main thing you can do is to meet as many of his ENs as possible. You can't make him do anything right now. I wouldn't even focus as much on negotiating with him. I would ask him how you could HELP HIM with his plan of getting rid of the OW. That's you working with him as his teammate.

I must have given the wrong impression. I am not back in Plan A.

I am in Plan B.

I thought i wanted Plan A and i thought i could go on with Plan A. But i could not do it. I feel like i am lying to myself so i am sticking to Plan B.

I tried to convince myself that Plan A is good etc etc but i cannot live in a lie and after talking to WS i know in my heart he is not ready to give her up. And if i take him back and do Plan A i will only set myself up to be slap in the face again.

I found out from reading that men usually do not marry their lover with whom they had an affair with. That knowledge alone gives me comfort knowing that the OW will not get want she wants at the end of this triangle journey. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

zizzy, then your H should be relieved if you go to Plan B. Plan B is pretty much a sure course for divorce when you have done no Plan A. I know the OW will appreciate it because she will now have NO competition. She will have him all to herself.

Basically, you just push him into the arms of the OW because the conditions in the marriage that led to the affair in the first place are NEVER RESOLVED. There is a very important reason that Plan B comes AFTER Plan A. But, I wish you the best.

Thanks for the support Melody. I pray for the best too.

It wasn't an easy decision for me to give up Plan A. I agonized with it for days but i felt i could not take another day of living with someone who had cheated on me and not even trying to give up the OW. Maybe some BS can tolerate that but i cannot.

I don't think it will lead to a divorce unless i initiate it.

I am feeling pretty sad and missing him tremendously in this Plan B.

I am hoping that by pushing him to OW, he will go on with her and hopefully they will finally see reality faster. Maybe i will lose him completely doing this method or maybe not. I don't know. But i am prepared to take that risk. Do Plan A also DOES not guarantee him not leaving me.

At least Plan B gives me some kind of peace.

I'm sorry you will not consider trying PLAN A. He has to really miss you during PLAN B for it to have effect. You might be relieved Ziggy but in the long run the OW now wins in the LOVE DEPOSITS and she will be loading them on. You did not give yourself enough of a chance, Ziggy.

It's still not too late to reconsider for the sake of your marriage!!!!!

I am terrible at Plan B.

I broke contact last night. Miss him so much. Then today he asked me out for lunch and i went. He was all teary when he spoke about us spliting up and everything. However no sign of him wanting to end it with OW. I ended up asking if he wanted to spend an overnight this coming Sat with us. He said yes. Am i horrible at Plan B or what?? Is this sort of back to Plan A, Mimi???? I don't know what i am doing anymore.

You guys must explain to me what exactly about this Plan A method that is supposed to help me win him over from OW coz i feel like i am myself in foggyland and very confuse. I read Plan A and Plan B MB article and do not see any HOPE in Plan A. It feels like a Plan only to make my life more miserable than ever.

zizzy, you are not really in Plan B anyway. Plan B is not making threats and giving your WS the silent treatment. Marriage Builders not a program where you pick which plan you like best, but a strategic, cohesive plan SET OF PLANS that must be used IN ORDER.

Plan B is actually destructive if you haven't done a Plan A. So you are really not in Plan B at all, you are in zizzy's homemade plan.

Plan A simply means that you quit doing the things that made him vulnerable to an affair in the first place and most importantly, STOP lovebusting. What needs of his were being deprived at home? Were you making angry demands or disrespectful judgements? Plan A means you try to attract him back by meeting his needs. If you are angry and cold, you just push him back towards the OW.

Here is a pretty good explanation of Plan A:

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=30&t=000176

here's another good one...

plan a

whoo hoo..i figured it out....that whole cut and paste a topic...

I agree totally with Melody. It seems like you are trying to do this your way. It is important to follow the MB principles as closely as possible. You have a guidebook here, Ziggy. Read about PLAN A and do exactly what is recommended and then you will not feel confused. You have the answers. Why would you think that PLAN A would make you unhappier? However, the key is not for you to be happy. You won't be happy for a long time. You have suffered a major trauma and will need to heal from it. The important thing now is for you to work on recovering your marriage. This process can't be "ME" focused but "MARRIAGE" focused.

Convince yourself that you can do this. You are in for a fight!!! Get back up on the horse and do a super PLAN A this weekend. Get beautiful, be romantic, think about having fun with him. Focus on what you can do to please him. He is your husband so make your claim!!!!

Okay. I am making tiny steps towards Plan A again.

I called him over for dinner last night. It turn out okay. No LBing. I also told him he can send him laundry to wash and iron at home if he wants to. I also told him he can come back for dinner if he wants to as long as he inform in advance so i can tell the maid to prepare extra food for him.

I think i sort of open a path for him to come home. He is currently staying with his brother chris. I am the one who threw him out in first place after he lied the fourth time. I think he is finding the living arrangement a little hard because his brother stays quite far away from his office while our home is only 5 mins away.

If he asked to come back home to stay because he is fed up with the living arrangement can i insist on my conditions such as NC letter before letting him back home completely???

Hi Ziggy:

Repeat this to yourself over and over!

NO DEMANDS DURING PLAN A

That means you do not demand a NC letter before he comes home. That is PLAN B.

PLAN A is meeting his EMOTIONAL NEEDS without LOVEBUSTERS. Cooking dinner and doing laundry are great! Providing a home to come home to is great! Looking physically attractive and providing good conversation -no relationship talk-when he comes are great!

Then once he is home you negotiate as a team what to do about the OW. You express your desire for him to get rid of her, ask him what his plan is for that,and then give your idea which would be the NC letter. It's called using a POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT! This lets your WH know that you are not acting independently but working together on this as marital partners. This is a MB PRINCIPLE. We are encouraging you to use MB PRINCIPLES. I am telling you exactly what Steve Harley recommended for me to do when I was in your positions. This is not the time to make demands. Like Melody said, you need to go slowly through this process.

I called him over for dinner again.

I am proud to say i did not do any LBing. I even suggest that he come home without any conditions. When i said that i could feel my blood pressure go up a note. My other half is telling myself i am crazy to do this. So i kept telling myself don't let the taker come in.

The next test came was when he told me that she had been doing his laundry and ironing his shirt for him. That news really mad me soooooo mad but i did not say anything although what i REALLY wanted to do was smack him and scream at him. But i didn't do any of that sort. Then not getting any respond from me, he asked me again...what i think about that. I told him it is okay and acting as if it is no big deal.

Yes, I can actually see the effect of Plan A. It is subtle but the signs are there. It confuses him more with my don't-care-about-the-affair attitude.

I think getting him back home would not be a problem. The problem is how do i get him to agree to ending the affair and the NC letter etc etc. You say don't demand and don't push the issue. So how do i get around it???? And lets say i express my desire for him to get rid of OW in the nicest way possible, and he is still undecided and not agreeable then what????

Hi Ziggy:

Your job now is to work on YOUR PLAN. Keep the focus on YOU and not what you want him to do.

Find a list of the EMOTIONAL NEEDS as spelled out by the Harleys. Then begin to work on meeting these needs for your WS, especially the needs which you think are most important to him.

Avoid ANGRY OUTBURSTS, DISRESPECT OR DEMANDS. That is the other important and essential task in PLAN A. He may try to get you to fail, like telling you about what the OW does. I would ASK him not to talk about her or ignore him when he does. Go on to another subject. Remember he wants you to fail in order to justify staying in the affair.

YOUR PLAN is working. Stick to it. Make special plans for this evening in regards to what you wear, the dinner menu and the home environment. Make it inviting! You are in a battle for your marriage.

Thanks Mimi, i hope i don't fail in my Plan A today.

Only one thing bothering and i need your opinion. About a 2 weeks ago while we were living apart, OW gave WS a cross pendant and he has been wearing it since. Before i did express my feelings about the pendant but i did not stop him from wearing it.

Now the question, if he comes home, can i ask him not to wear it? Is this a demand and a love buster? The sight of it reminds me of OW and if he comes home then it will be a constant reminder every single day. Sometimes i feel i can't even make love to him if it is there on his chest all the time.

I know it is only a thing and i should not let a thing fail me in my plan A but it does bother me a lot. So what should i do?

Once he gets home at a time that you think is good, calmly and respectfully ASK him to take off the cross pendant. Explain to him how much it HURTS you. Express how it makes you FEEL. This can be done without you being demanding. PLAN A includes expressing your emotional pain and hurt. That is an important part of the plan as long as you do not do ANGRY OUTBURSTS. Also, there can't be too much wimpering and no begging. Just expression of feeling.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by zizzycool:
<strong> I called him over for dinner again.

I am proud to say i did not do any LBing. I even suggest that he come home without any conditions. When i said that i could feel my blood pressure go up a note. My other half is telling myself i am crazy to do this. So i kept telling myself don't let the taker come in.

The next test came was when he told me that she had been doing his laundry and ironing his shirt for him. That news really mad me soooooo mad but i did not say anything although what i REALLY wanted to do was smack him and scream at him. But i didn't do any of that sort. Then not getting any respond from me, he asked me again...what i think about that. I told him it is okay and acting as if it is no big deal.

Yes, I can actually see the effect of Plan A. It is subtle but the signs are there. It confuses him more with my don't-care-about-the-affair attitude.

I think getting him back home would not be a problem. The problem is how do i get him to agree to ending the affair and the NC letter etc etc. You say don't demand and don't push the issue. So how do i get around it???? And lets say i express my desire for him to get rid of OW in the nicest way possible, and he is still undecided and not agreeable then what???? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Dear ZZ,

I read your last 2 posts and will try to reply. Please pardon me for not reading the whole thing but I am on my way to work and wanted to do a quick reply.

As far as the OW doing the WS' laundry, there is another way to look at it. I think I am the only one at MB who can tell you that the BS actually took a load of laundry (1 days work of work clothes) to the OW's house. Why? Well it took a while but I got fed up of the OW getting the WS' supposed fun and attention not to speak of time and $$ so I decided she'd better start doing her share of his 'other' needs. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It wasn't greasy or anything bad (I kinda wish it had been but please read on), anyway I took it and when no one answered the door, I simply left the grocery plastic bag hanging on her doorknob. I did not go any farther than that and did not even leave a note. About 5 days later (fog slows down a WS' reaction - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), WS calls me while I am shopping at Costco. He proceeds to tell me that OW's H found the laundry bag with get this...... clothes and poop. Remember this was 5 days after I took the bag and I had the clothes in my home for 7 days prior. So as I was hysterically laughing (while at costco)....I had to find a sort of secluded place because I am sure I looked weird and I had to sit down, I was laughing too hard,. Anyways I said that I did deliver it but there was NO POOP in the bag, just dirty clothes and the WS is quite clean in that area - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> . He agreed and knew I was not lying. Then I asked permission (good technique to ask a question and NOT LB), to ask a question and then asked if it was human or animal? Soft or dried? By this time I was laughing again and the WS was not happy..... he eventually had to laugh, it really was funny. You see to this day neither of us believe her H really found the bag. At that time he did not live there and the OW ended up washing his clothes.

Lesson learned? Ow can do laundry. Whoope! I was able to take a painful feeling and turn it around and get a good laugh out of itl. I have told this story several times over the past few years. Gets a chuckle out of most. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I recommend you view her doing his laundry as another need the OW needs to do. Now, think of other needs this OW can do. I mean, why meet all his hard working needs?>!>!> See it is all in the approach.

As for the WS wearing the pendant, that is a disrespectful act on his part. It should lose him points in being allowed into your home. Treat his return to your home in any shape or form (move back in, visiting, doing repairs,etc.) as a privilege. I changed the locks when the WS moved out and he had to knock to enter his own home. To this day, I have the when necessary, I can immediately make it so a WS can be locked out immediately.

The WS needs to respect you, your home and your property. If he can't then privileges need to be removed. No options. Which ones you choose is your option. Choose carefully and be prepared for trantrum like consequences. Don't take him back less than what you want and need for you and your family. Treat youself, your family and your home as 1 package deal. Speak of it that way and it will strengthen your stance. The A people like to pick on 1 thing or person at a time. They don't work well in a coordinated supportive stance, though the WS and OW tend to gang up on the BS and family.

Just some techniques I learned that worked for me.

Hope this helps!

take care,
L.