ALSO POSTED AT IN RECOVERY:

One of the long standing problems in our marriage is that I've lied to my H throughtout. Never with any particular reason and not always about anything that most people might lie about. My H, after a six month separation, moved back home, thinking things were better. No NC letter and he continued to see OW for about a month and half. H started posting in mid-Nov and, much to my own shame, I manipulated the situation by posting under other names as well as my own (that's another thread <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> ). H says it was as much my "other" posts as those of any of you which ultimately helped in his sending OW a NC letter so he's feeling (and rightfully so) very betrayed. After finding out about the names, and expressing understandable anger, he said he'd give me another try...after all I gave him a second chance. In line with this, he asked me if there was anything I should tell him and I said "no."

The day after Christmas, he asked again (since it was Christmas and a time for forgiveness) if there were any more lies and I said no. There were though and so within a few minutes of that conversation we had an online converastion (that I instigated) where I did tell him the truth about some things he'd been asking about for almost a year...if not longer. There were some points glossed over or not elaborated on (in fact, in looking back at the conversation, there was one particular question that I didn't even answer until a later time) but what I actually told him was the truth. So H has difficulty believing this "truth" is in fact the truth and decides to "expose" me to all of you. (Yet another thread).

Despite all of this H stays at home, but now doesn't know if he wants to stay. The day after H found about multiple names contact with OW was reestablshed. As of today, it has been nonphysical, but they have shared a few meals and the EA is, I think, back in full swing. H was only out of contact with OW for ten days and so I think I can understand the ease in which he fell back into things. Since contact with OW is reestablished, H is again thinking of leaving. He loves me, but doesn't know if he can live his life always wondering about the what is and is not the truth. Okay understandable.

The first time he tells me this, it was more an observation that I thought, by the time the conversation was ended, he rejected as a possibility.

Then News Year weekend hits. Over the course of the weekend there were three incidents which even H admits would be classic times in which I would have previously lied. Of the three I lied in one of them and almost instantly told him the truth (although the fact is, the truth was obvious...it was a stupid lie--but aren't they all). But I see that as an improvement. 1/3 is better than 3/3.

Over the past year, I've made a lot of changes. All of which H associates with taking AD meds...I disagree. Some of them certainly are attributable to that but I don't think all of them are. In the past week or so, in response to his exposing me, some of you have helped me immensely in helping me to understand myself and figure out ways to deal with me. Over the past several days I've spent my time thinking about all that I've read and some of the things that my former counselor had mentioned and pulled all my thoughts together in a coherent manner that I could finally express to my H, which I did lastnight. Part of telling him this was my telling him why this time could be different than any of the times before. I know he hears the words, but I also know he thinks it's all talk no action.

I've asked him over and over what I can do to show him things could be different and he just has variations on "show me they are differnt". I have not done an exemplary job of that, but I do think there have been significant changes. I feel as though he wanted all of the changes to happen at once and to occur overnight. He says, I've had almost a year. Again, I can see why he is disbelieving but I do not see that he is at all trying to see things from my own perspective. I think if he did, he'd see that yes, much has in fact, changed.

Last night H told our older children that he may be moving out again and if he does he won't be moving back. H admits that OW is a factor, but that either way he can't always be wondering if I'm telling the truth or not. I believe the degree in which he questions himself about his ability to stay is in direct correlation with the amount of contact he's had with OW. I even asked him to not see her until he makes a final decision...he responds by saying "what can it hurt?" After his first personal contact with her, the desire to leave increased a lot. (H may well disagree with that assessment).

After he told the girls he may leave again, and while H was talking to my older daughter my younger daughter wanted to talk to me. One of her concerns was that if Daddy leaves she won't see Grandma or Grandpa "and other people" as much. I truly believed that other people meant OW in particular because younger D really likes her and so I told my D the reason I didn't like OW (something she has in the past repeatedly asked me). Which is because she wants Mommy and Daddy to get a divorce. She asked if that is why Daddy might leave and I told her no, it was for other reasons (again not a full truth, but enough for a five year old for now). Based on an earlier conversation with my OD, I thought this is what H already told OD so I believed I was only using what he already said. He says that is not what he said and what I did say could have a detrimental affect on his relationship with them...something I have always said I would try and protect. But more importantly something that I would not try and actively destroy.

So, to cut to the chase, I want to know if any of you can see a way that I can show my H things are different. Is there something specific that I can do that might show H that this time is in fact differnt than any of the others. My H (rightfully so) says this is all nothing that he hasnt heard before. Except that before I wasn't able to pull everything together to get to a point where I knew why things were happending and why I could make things different (a lot of which, I believe, is just attitude).

Or if any of you have any general advice. I am already working on myself. I need help on the convincing him. My H recently said he wanted me to focus my energy on convincing him to stay and not going after OW for again showing her ugly face ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> ) but he seems so unwilling to listen. This time if he leaves, divorce will probably happen within a few weeks.

Something else I just thought of...

This past month has been a stressed-filled life for both of us as we moved, had to deal with the Holidays and then my job has been up and down. I've felt like all of this has helped in my own pushing of the personal things (myself and my M) to the sideburner. Am I just looking for justification?

I'm not sure I am following this at all...

you post here
your husband posts here..

he posts about his OW...decides to go no contact ..
you participate in the issue of his going no contact under another log in...

He thinks he was manipulated in to going NC???

what a bunch of hoooey that is....

No contact is not right or wrong based on who advises you to do so...no contact is right in this case if for no other reason you got THREE CHILDREN...who need their dad...not another woman!!!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

What's the old saying...
NO ONE
NO ONE NO ONE NO ONE NO ONE can be manipulated without their consent.....

posters here have no power to manipulate someone... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Sounds more akin to not being able to stand the no contact and withdrawl and using this as an excuse to get his fix...

BUT
what it sounds like your post is saying that you lie about lots of things...and that he maybe even could have gotten around the multi-poster thing...but is finding out about things you have lied about....

so basically neither of you have shown the ability to place value in truth...


you can't control or change him...
all you can do is continue from this moment forward to be the best person you can be...
let go of the lieing....
continue to show consistant progress forward...
there are no garuntees even without the other screen names etc that he wouldn't have bailed on his no contact....

there's always hope...always..

ARK

<small>[ January 06, 2004, 04:27 PM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

I think you understand the situation perfectly. However, if you wish for a better understanding, there are two relatively recent threads from both my H and myself at In Recovery linked below:

His thread:
You and I were duped by my W

My thread in response to this:
XQUZME (& others) - I'm both sorry & frustrated

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">what it sounds like your post is saying that you lie about lots of things...and that he maybe even could have gotten around the multi-poster thing...but is finding out about things you have lied about....</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He says he could have gotten around the multiple poster thing except it was more indepth than just posting to him. On the flip side, the lies he "discovered" are things he's suspected (and I think actually known about on some level) for some time. I was just, until recently, unwilling to tell him about them myself. And the issues themselves predate our marriage. The funny thing is, even though he's had, at the very least, some suspicion of them, they seem to have had a huge impact on him.

There is a part of me that wonders if he was truly committed to recovery or just faking it all the while looking for an out that could be put on my feet. Generally, I would say "no way" that isn't like him at all. And it's possible that having read that very thing elsewhere I'm projecting things that just aren't there. But the fact is, H has not been himself since A started. Something AD's did do was allow me to see his actions in a new light. When I compare his pre-A and active-A self...they are not the same person. I really do wish his old self would resurface <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> .

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">you can't control or change him...
all you can do is continue from this moment forward to be the best person you can be...
let go of the lieing....
continue to show consistant progress forward...
there are no garuntees even without the other screen names etc that he wouldn't have bailed on his no contact....

there's always hope...always..</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is my intent. And although I know I can't control him, I really want him to be around to witness the changes first hand. He's so certain that my own issues are about him. If he leaves and then he sees the changes occuring, it will only validate everything he's always thought...that it is all tied to him in some way.

Oh well...to a certain extent, there is an aspect of you made your own bed, etc. I think I just needed to hear some words of encouragement so I didn't give up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Feeling_Alone:
[QB] H says it was as much my "other" posts as those of any of you which ultimately helped in his sending OW a NC letter so he's feeling (and rightfully so) very betrayed.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What does this have to do with anything? Surely he didn't use this an excuse to resume contact again? If so, it is apparent that he just wanted to resume contact and is using this as an excuse. [a very lame one at that] Like ark pointed out, REGARDLESS of WHO suggested he send the NC letter [a very common recommendation at Marriage Builders] he made that choice and it was still the RIGHT CHOICE. It didn't become the WRONG CHOICE simply because of a source.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
But I see that as an improvement. 1/3 is better than 3/3.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And ZERO is better than one lie. Can you not control yourself from lying? If can control yourself from telling one lie, why not ALL lies?

I can certainly understand why your lying would be a HUGE lovebuster to him, but he is getting enormous mileage out of it by using it as an excuse to take the focus off himself. All the lying in the world will not justify an affair.

<small>[ January 06, 2004, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And ZERO is better than one lie. Can you not control yourself from lying? If can control yourself from telling one lie, why not ALL lies.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can go on and on and only sound as though I'm making excuses on this and not taking responsiblity. In answer to your question though, yes I can control it, and in this latest instance, I knew the entire I was lying and that he didn't like it.

Having said that. In one of the books I read, (I don't remember which one) Harley talks about love busters and bad habits, etc. This is a life long habit that I recognize as needing to end, but also recognize that ending something like that (any life long habit, whether good or bad) isn't going to happen overnight. So yes, 0 is better than 1, but I do think 1 is better than 3 as well.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Feeling_Alone:
This is a life long habit that I recognize as needing to end, but also recognize that ending something like that (any life long habit, whether good or bad) isn't going to happen overnight. So yes, 0 is better than 1, but I do think 1 is better than 3 as well. [/QB]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why can't it end overnight? I was an alcoholic my entire adult life and I ended my drinking on April 27, 1985. Any choice can "end overnight" if you make that choice. By your own admission, though, you still choose to lie.

I am not impressed with ANY LIES if you can control it. Lying is lying and one lie is not any better than three lies. If you can control it, it should be ZERO. If your child's life depended on it, could you stop? Well, your MARRIAGE depends on it so make your choice.

you said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">and in this latest instance, I knew the entire I was lying and that he didn't like it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, you made a CONSCIOUS CHOICE to lie and didn't *WANT* to tell the truth.

This is not something that just happens to you, you choose this behavior. You make a decision to lie. Just like I made a decision to drink.

I am just saying that you either control it or you don't. If you do control your behavior, then CHOOSE TO STOP and quit making excuses. If you can't control it, then that points to a serious mental illness and is another matter altogether.

I agree with Melody, as I've been through alcohol, drug, and gambling addictions during my life. Every time I don't have a drink, smoke pot, or go to the casinos, it is a conscious choice. Every time I have gotten drunk, gotten high, or blown way too much money in a casino, that was also a conscious choice.

I'd just like to add that NO change of a long-term habit is easy. It cannot be "proven" overnight, to yourself or anyone else. But the decision to change, and the decision to NOT fall back into that unhealthy behaviour, IS something that happens instantly. It's just that it happens over, and over, and over again, every time you're faced with that choice.

<small>[ January 06, 2004, 06:20 PM: Message edited by: Uncomfortably Numb ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I agree with Melody, as I've been through alcohol, drug, and gambling addictions during my life. Every time I don't have a drink, smoke pot, or go to the casinos, it is a conscious choice. Every time I have gotten drunk, gotten high, or blown way too much money in a casino, that was also a conscious choice.

I'd just like to add that NO change of a long-term habit is easy. It cannot be "proven" overnight, to yourself or anyone else.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Okay, so both of you are right, I was definitely looking at it from the perspective of good, better, best and thinking each successive step should prove that I'm trying and very possibly using that as a crutch to not "just saying no." so-to-speak. So, I can do this and I'll start by telling myself that every day before getting up.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But the decision to change, and the decision to NOT fall back into that unhealthy behaviour, IS something that happens instantly. It's just that it happens over, and over, and over again, every time you're faced with that choice.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Another very good point. Didn't think about it that way (as a decision made over and over again.) I really did think of it as a habit that would need time to break. Better think again. Yes my marriage definitely depends on it. Now, I only hope he gives me the opportunity to prove it.

Don't get me wrong, I think it takes a LOT of guts to admit problems and try to change them. And it'll be a long struggle, as your instincts tell you to do the "wrong thing" each time.

I just feel that you shouldn't think that there's "little wrongs" and "big wrongs". Not when it's something that you see as being so damaging to your life and marriage. It's pretty black-and-white. It's just right or wrong.

Good luck to you. It takes strength to admit mistakes and take action to correct them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />