Well she got back from vacation.
I found a love letter from her to him.
She declared her love numerous times and has given him a January ultimatum for him to leave his wife and kids. He told her over the phone he cannot leave them. She is devastated in a second letter he wrote.
She still continues to say there just friend. I have never gotten such a love letter from her.

We spoke all night and she is still undecided she says we need time apart.
For me I think it's the end. I'm leaving. I LOVE her to death but I have now become the third choice.

I did not love bust I declared my love but it's not enough. I am moving out today I stayed home from work.
Can anyone give me a GOOD reason to stay?

HELP

How about three?

*Most affairs end between six months to a year.
*Once you're separated reconciliation is much harder.
*People who separate and divorce and not nearly as happy five years from now as the folks who stay together and work it out in spite of infidelity.

Do you have kids? If you do....I can tell you about the effects of divorce on children.

It's time for exposing this affair. Have you spoken to his wife? Who else knows about this? Her parents? Your friends?

He does not know I definitely know. He can be dangerous, he is trouble with the law already.
I can't tell his wife it maybe dangerous for me and her.

I am close with her sister but I don't want to hurt her by telling.

Her boss is the father of OM that will cause a scandal and she will lose her job.
OM is losing his job already his father will have no choice but to fire him when inditated.

He has a wife and 2 kids he told her he cannot leave them now because of finaces and his pending case.

I guess she loses all around.

I can't live like this I rather be miserable and alone than be third choice and be loved by someone who loves me by default.

Married 11 years
no children
she infertility 5 years
we were adopting when something came up in Sept.03
She is deeply in love wants space now tells me she wants to work it out like I told her before the letter.
Why?

YOU stay...(not everyone...not all people...)

but YOU stay because....

1. for a long time both of you neglected eachother...so while the OM is "new" the neglect of eachothers needs is old....

2. that you now want to change YOU...because you see YOU as becoming a better person, husband, and that these changes take time....and for her to see and trust these new changes in YOU...she has to be able to see them.

3. Most affairs die a death all on their own..
even when the BS does nothing...so you can do lots of things...the fact that he will not leave is good news...creates huge trauma and chaos...the exact time you need to look as stable and as appealing as you can...

4. You don't abandon your marriage...if you desire a marriage...right now regardless of her actions....
if anyone moves out it is she...but don't you dare suggest it...

5. the last thing your marriage needs is time apart...you need time together...

6. She is "abandoned" by the OM in her messed up thinking....don't abandon as well

7. you will need to protect yourself from the pain...but move through it...running from it doesn't end it...or remove it....

8. read up on plan A...read read read...

this is a huge ego blow for you I realize...you have lots of growing in learning to give with no expectations of anything in return...

that is very foreign for you...the pain of change and growing is scary and hard work...
walk now and you will miss out on learning lots of valuable lessons...

read mimi's post who hung in like a champ....
read responses to her on the struggle on change and on forgiveness....

stay put...
ARK...stay because she is waffling....

What is wafflling?
I was up all night with her. I gave her chance to reconsider and explain the letter. I get it nothing it was only an EA that she got caught up in it that he is a wonderful guy but he is f$#@% up in his life. She feels sorry for him.
I told her about MB and the advice I got before.

She now wants to read His needs/her needs I ask why she says she wants to try us she loves me, Why is she now concerned? Why should I want her?
How can I live this way? She says she still loves him but not in that way!!!

I want to run Yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
She also said she had been thinking on vacation and regardless of this she thinks we need some time apart BUT she wants me to go, she says it's easier for me to find a place her place wants a 1 year lease.

Note she did write that she told him to move out and leave his wife and move in with her.
Again why would I want a woman like this????????

I have made mistakes in our relationship but nothing that I deserve this she has killed my feelings all together.

WHY?????????????????????

She has been in therapy for three months.
she has been dragging me through this for three months telling me nothing was going on always an excuse. She has not gone out at night in three months.

She told him in letter that the 1 hour lunch per day and not seeing him for her three day weekend is killing her and she can't do this anymore she loves him.

More to letter but it hurts to much.
She still denies a sexuall Affair I can't see this much love without sexual contact no one can put up with that!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I ask again WHY????????????????
The institute of marriage is not enough..............

Note he never got 1st letter she wrote it on vacation. She confessed she spoke to him while there and thats when he said he was not leaving his wife and kids right now.
Her ultimatum to him didn't work out for her, sure now just come back home.

I did ask her to leave she says no!!!!!!!!!!!
I told her I'm putting the house up for sale and filing for divorce she asks why, why can't we work it out.
I say why should I, She can't answer me...

I want to end this hurtful relationship......
She wants to be friends anyway because nothing sexual happen and she is sorry for my pain. I have been here for her and she doesn't see me.

WHY?

In some ways why is the easy answer...

shy is because someone came along and she and he started investing time and energy in one another...

and with that investment comes confusion...and with the confusion comes the need to rationalize and make the spouse at home "the bad one"..the one who lead the cheating spouse down this path...

and huge rationalization about soul-mates....and being "different"....

and the more she admits what a "jerk" he is...the more she has to face and wrestle with the reality that she PICKED a jerk...and that's really hard to face...so it is easier to run...or tell you to run...because the more stable you are...the more it accentuates what a jerk he is....

She now wants to read His needs/her needs I ask why she says she wants to try us she loves me, Why is she now concerned? Why should I want her?

you shouldn't want her...
you shouldn't even want perhaps who she was...
but you could and should want who she can become...

I can't live like this I rather be miserable and alone than be third choice and be loved by someone who loves me by default.

she doesn't love anyone right now...not in a love in which is valuable to anyone right now...

she doesn't like or love herself right now...
she is in no position to be loving to him or you right now...
right now she's very lost....

goodhusband you can bail...it's your right and choice....
certainly people have been advised to bail...
but with you wifes willingness to read things..
and her saying she loves you...
and the OM having even just logistically things so stacked against him...
I mean what an appealing escape she must have appeared to him....he probably turned on all the the charm in order to escape emotionally his own chaos he had created at home....

but you shouldn't apply to much weight to what she says right now...she is so very confused...

I wouldn't take much of what she says as gospel...the good and the bad...even the letter...

focus back on you....

ARK

it's difficult to focus on me right now.
She tell me it's not me that she made a bad judgement but she works with him for now and all that I have read is driving me insane.

I don't want to tell her to take a leave of absence from work and that he or she must go. She has invested 10 years on this job and she recently got a big promotion. It means the world to her.............

I mean nothing except she now has noone and it's my time to stand tall and work at it with her. I have no desire. I do love her but thats fading real fast.......
As she wrote in her letter to him he and she finally found true love and can be happy yet so many obstacles are in the way.............

I asked her what kind of relationship will she have with him ONE OF DECEITE like it started, she says nothing started that they are good friends.
Well with the letter she wrote if thats a friend I could only imagine what a lover would be like for her.

For several years our love life has deteriorated I thought it was the infertility, adoption, etc.

She wrote in her letter that when they are together she finds it hard to leave his side and that why she runs at the end of the evening she can't take it anymore she wants him now it is his choice.
Keep in mind he has not seen 1st letter but he may have heard it over the phone. He has not gotten the second letter at all. She tells him she understands his finacial situation and his children and that she can't stand the thought of not being with him. And what is she going to tell me(her husband when she gets back.
She is lost but why should I help her find her way. I am the oppisite of what she see's in him.

WHY ME????????????
It hurts bad I can't see how I will ever get over this.
I see a glass half full all the time this time there is no Glass!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi me after a long day.

I went back to reread 2nd letter, she was letting go telling him she understood his situation.

She contacted him from vacation and he told her over the phone he could not leave his wife and kids and that he was not for her that friends yes but he wanted nothing else to do with her. She was heart broken!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

He said to her (because she wrote in second letter) " yes it is better to have something then nothing" I think she was refering to me as the something.

She did tell me today that when I first discovered it in Sept. 03 she stop contact with him she knew it was wrong. BUT that I was being such a jerk and exploding constantly I caused her to go back to loving him she feels like she is losing everything.

All I could offer was She was losing everything and that what ever her relationship she has to decide to stop it not me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She says she made that decision already.

I took PEPS advice a closed mouth gets no foot.

This is going to be a difficult time for us.

I will be turning to you guys for support.

The next thing I need to assure is that he is gone, He is most likly losing his job there or jail. A real winner...............

I also went to the book store and bought "Surviving an Affair" Should we both read it together or apart any advice?
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

any advice on reading Surviving an Affair ?

goodhusband....
I hope this finds you well...

I realize that you are in a very painful position....
and I realize that your very human reaction may be to run from the pain....

But the more you can look at the bigger picture of a marriage...and see value down the road and in the future of actions that are difficult right now....the more you will find security and strength in moving through this with as much grace as you can...

while the letters expose you to lots of emotional entanglement that may be present between your wife and the OM....

know that you are also looking at someone in emotional crisis and turmoil...

DO NOT devalue yourself as someone as second choice...or second place...she is not in a place to make rash good decisions...she is not capable of a choice now...and choices made in such crisis...are not good ones....

you are who you are regardless of her choice...and hold great value in this universe...

I infact would caution you not to engage in too much relationship talk...
I would tell you not to believe much she says...
either way...

BUT I would tell you that if this is the woman and marriage that you want to fight for..then this is the hill to do the battle on....
and that it starts with and lands on your shoulders....

be all that the OM is not...and this is not to say to romantically and aggressively pursue...
this is to say...become the one person in her world who offers...
santuary
consistancy
respect is a big one...which is why the disrepectful judgements are so important (YET understandabely hard to avoid)...
the more you respond to her in a way that is unexpected the more you will grab her attention...EVEN when she appears she is not listening....

make the home safe so that it is a place she wants to come to....not avoid...

seriously consider seeking counsel at this website...

sorry for your pain....
strength to you...
ARK

Hello again.
Yes I am doing better today.
I am taking it one day at a time and not LBing nor agressive towards answers regarding the relationship. Like I wrote yesterday the second letter she wrote was to end it. She ripped both letters up after I read them.

She says she is sorry and wants to fix our marriage. I bought the book and I asked her to do only one thing for us right now, read the first 50 pages after that read what ever she desires. She said thats it thats all you want me to do. I answer that all I ask of you the rest is up to you!!!!!!!!!!!!!

She agreed.

What is your opinion on this, Last night I went up to bed she came up 5 minutes later and was coming to get in bed with me. I said to her I am not being mean but before you can get in bed with me you need to end it with <OM Name>, then I will be here. She immediately told me it is over. I told her it's over when he knows it and more importantly when you know it. She went to the other room.

I feel horrible though because in the morning when I got up to go to work I see the book "Surviving an Affair" on her night stand, she may have been coming to bed to read with me.

Why am I felling guilty ?

She also seems depressed.

thanks
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I am always amazed to read how the BS feels guilty for standing up one's self respect and moral values. The fact is that your darling little wife would divorce you with lightning speed if the OM was willing to leave his wife. Now that he doesn't want to leave his family you win by default. Of course, I am sure he is willing to continue screwing her on the side as long as his turf is protected.

Your right I am kidding myself that I can get passed this. She still needs her space and she has done this herself.

What she has done is unforgivable and over a loser shows her bad judgement but that I did not do.

She will be moving out hopefully in 1 week then I shall move on.

What I find very confusing is how she tells me it was ONLY an emotional Affair as if falling in love with him is excusable. She is also on such a roller coaster that she is afraid to lose me that she still wants to sleep only sleep in my bed and wants to remain close she tells me that it is over with him and that moving out has to do with her own need for independence nothing else.

All this will not work for me I told her I want out and I want her to stop hurting me. When I tell her I am filing she cry's and tells me to give her a CHANCE ( What the chance I didn't get)

I do beleive it all started as a friendship it always does she chose to let it get away from her and fell in love, thats not my fault.

It will take me time to get over her because I can't stop loving her that easy and because I see the great pain she is in mentally.

goodhus

Your right I am kidding myself that I can get passed this. She still needs her space and she has done this herself.
No, you can get through this. We all have said this. In the beginning the situation seems unsumountable but as time goes by it does get better. If you can't get past it, being either with or without your wife, it is because you choose not to.

What she has done is unforgivable and over a loser shows her bad judgement but that I did not do.
He might be a loser and she definately exercised some bad judgement but this is forgivable.

She will be moving out hopefully in 1 week then I shall move on.
If you are sure this is what you want then press on. Just make sure this isn't to make her "pay" for what she has done.

What I find very confusing is how she tells me it was ONLY an emotional Affair as if falling in love with him is excusable. She is also on such a roller coaster that she is afraid to lose me that she still wants to sleep only sleep in my bed and wants to remain close she tells me that it is over with him and that moving out has to do with her own need for independence nothing else.
Same thing happened with my wife. Their affair was 6-7 months along when I found out. It continued off and on for another year after that. It never went PA until we separated. As far as she knew she was in love, so much so that she wanted to divorce me. The only thing stopping her was our daughter. You are one of the lucky ones if your wife wants to work on your marriage.

All this will not work for me I told her I want out and I want her to stop hurting me. When I tell her I am filing she cry's and tells me to give her a CHANCE ( What the chance I didn't get)
What she did was horrible. An affair is just about one of the harshest things you can do to someone but that doesn't give you the right to try and hurt her either.

I do beleive it all started as a friendship it always does she chose to let it get away from her and fell in love, thats not my fault.
Not your fault she had the affair but you more than likely contributed to degrading the marriage to the point where she was succeptable to having an affair.

[B]It will take me time to get over her because I can't stop loving her that easy and because I see the great pain she is in mentally.[/B}

goodhusband.....continue to be a GOOD HUSBAND.

God Bless you in whatever choice you make,

I can't stand to think of her with him!!!!!!!!!!!!
She is so in love with him even after he has chosen to stay with his wife and kids and he has legal problems to boot. He has rejected her but I see she still has hope for them.

When you say "It never went PA until we separated" that is what I see happening , she is holding on that he may change his mind and choose her yet, That is painful.

She tells me she Loves me and that she wants me to reconsider ending it and it's all her fault and to give her a chance WHY?

I know she is hurting as I am over him and she will be weak and make the affair physical now to try to win him over I can't handle that.

I want to end the M today not wait. I want her to leave in a flash today she tells me she has nowhere to go and will need time to pack and find a place.

How do I get by till then?

I can't stand to think of her with him!!!!!!!!!!!!
This won't change but if you choose to work on this and she is sincere in her efforts then those thoughts will (slowly) go away.

She is so in love with him even after he has chosen to stay with his wife and kids and he has legal problems to boot. He has rejected her but I see she still has hope for them.
My lovely wifes OM wasn't married but he was engaged. More than once, one or both of them ended affair only to have it start back up again. My wife told me that coming back to me would be like leaving college and going to kindergarten. They had so much in common. He was gentle sweet, caring and honest. I do believe that she cared for him and on some level there was some kind of love but it was immature love. You know that the excitement of the affair is the big hook. Has she said she has hope for them?

When you say "It never went PA until we separated" that is what I see happening , she is holding on that he may change his mind and choose her yet, That is painful.
I agree that a healthly dose of reality does wonders for snapping the WS out of the fog. The threat of divorce and the fact that she doesn't have anywhere to go probably scares the hell out of her. When my wife and I separated it was her choice. She wanted space. She told me she wasn't going to see the OM but within a couple of weeks she was and shortly after that she slept with him. Things didn't go as planned. Seems that the OM had "problems" and couldn't quite complete the act. This act of "making love" to him that she had waited for over a year to do, fizzled like a wet match.
If you THINK that this might happen, then why separate? Have you been to counseling yet? I saw my therapist for over a year...best money ever spent (with the exception of my Callaway 5 wood)

She tells me she Loves me and that she wants me to reconsider ending it and it's all her fault and to give her a chance WHY?
Because you are married
Because you say you still love her.
Because she says she loves you.
Those are the obvious to me but I bet you could add a few more if you tried.

I know she is hurting as I am over him and she will be weak and make the affair physical now to try to win him over I can't handle that.

I want to end the M today not wait. I want her to leave in a flash today she tells me she has nowhere to go and will need time to pack and find a place.

How do I get by till then?

Will you hurt more if it does turn physical? Have you told OM's wife about the affair yet? I really don't have the answer on what you should do right now and it seems you don't either. I can tell you from experience that "out of sight" does not equate to "out of mind."
I got by by turning to God and my church. Not only did I get by I grew as a person. I also took up running. I felt sad, I went running. I got angry, I went running.

I wish I had more for you. God Bless

I am filing for divorce TODAY

Sorry people I can't hold on to nothing anymore. You have all been great.

Thank you for your support

I'll be back someday for more help getting through this rough time.