We were introduced through family and fell in love. Initially unbeknownst to me she was already going out with a much older guy (he had a daughter from a previous relationship) for 2 years but knew her family would never accept him and was resigned to that fact. I got to know about this bit by bit after I proposed to her and she said yes. I was so in love I said I will love her no matter what. After we got married she said she needed time to get over him and still went to see him from time to time (meetings in restaurants etc)...I tolerated this out of love for her but then got angry about it...I was very emotional about it all and was very very dowmcast (I moved countries for her on my own volition and didn't have much family or friends for support)...our honeymoon was a disaster...after we came back we discovered that she was pregnant...this to me was initially shocking...how can we be bringing in a child to this world when we're having such problems...at that point, with my joblessness wrecking my mood I angrily asked her to have an abortion...she was shocked, to her the pregnancy meant a new beginning for us, she would love me so so so much now...but I didn't see it that way at the time, I was still bitter about her still being in touch with her ex. I changed my mind about it later but she had heard my initial response and that was it in her mind. We ended up having the abortion (very early term) and then our relationship was on and off...she had to go overseas for a medical project (she's a final year med student) and that separation made me realize what a collosal mistake I had made (I also got a job just before she left).
I moved heaven an earth to make her realize how much I love her and how I know I have hurt her and am willing to go to any lengths to have her back in my life. We had a big wedding reception and had some problems with my parents (My mom's gone bonkers about losing her little boy to his wife...said some nasty stuff). I defended and protected my wife to the hilt and that made her old feelings for me grow and she professed her rediscovered love for me. I was full of hope and happiness...finally we'll be able to start our life again.
I was very very hurt to find out that she is still regularly talking and occasionally seeing her ex-boyfriend. my WS is 22, I am 27 and OM is 39. He met her at an impressionable age (19) and had almost convinced her to be with him even though her parents and extended family would never accept it. I have scoured all the info on MB website and actually have been on plan A without even realizing it. I have snooped and revealed to her that I know of the dates times and places of their last meeting and have copies of phone messages he left. Without evidence she would've flatly denied it all and she is extremely good at making up alibis. I will have a heart-to-heart talk with her tonight and ask her to stop seeing him cold turkey and write the final letter. I have been doing my human best to meet her ENs for a month now and she has really warmed to me...but she can't seem to shake her old flame and he seems content to let this continue...I think he expects my WS to eventually leave me for her, even though she says he tells him the choice is fully hers. What do I tell her? I am going to be rational and calm and caring about it. This is a twist on a conventional EA...He knows my wife better than I although people do constantly change....anyone been in a similar predicament?

<small>[ January 09, 2004, 11:33 AM: Message edited by: ironbeast ]</small>

ib,
your "insisting" on the abortion does not mean that your W was required to go through with it. she did what she chose to do! just as she continues to chose to have a relationship outside the boundaries of her marriage.

now here's a thought you may not want to consider. given the person you are describing, is it possible that she did what she did, because she wanted to...and feels no shame in laying the guilt for that decision on your shoulders? further, she feels no guilt in using that situation to absolve herself of any responsability for continuing her EA.

regardless, the abortion is an issue that needs to be settled between you two and put to bed...but how can that happen when she has not now, or ever committed to the marriage?

to chanage this situation there are pricipals...practicle applications provided right here on this site, to rectify the matter. but it takes two! if your wife doesn't want this marriage or to work on it, it will never be the kind of relationship that you both deserve.

if it were me, i would put aside all other questions at this point in time, other then what is causing this marriage not to work, nd come to some understanding with her as to what you both want.

coach

Well, I think its good that you are trying to meet her emotional needs but that is not very likely to solve the problem since thats not the CAUSE of the problem. It can't really be the solution if its not the problem.

The problem is that she is not really committed to your marriage. She has always been completely up front about her attachment to this man and told you this going in. You accepted this and married her anyway. I guess I don't see the grounds for asking her to stop now. I mean, I hope she does stop for your sake, but you might also have to just accept her how she is, a woman who admittedly is not committed to your marriage and intends on carrying on with her boyfriend and sees nothing wrong with that at all.

Some folks just have different views on monogamy and it sounds like she is just not a monogamous person. So, even if you force her to get rid of this guy, what will you do about the next guy who comes along that tickles her fancy?

ml,
i must respectfully disagree with your analysis...yes he married her knowing of her past relationship but that does not absolve her of meeting her responsabilities to the marriage.

he agreed to marry her, she made the same comittment to him...and that is what must come first...FOR BOTH OF THEM!

here's my point. regardless of what understanding they had, married people don't do things that hurt each other or the marriage...folks in a good marriage often sacrifice their personl perogative because not to do so causes pain and suffering to the one they suposedly care most about. it's called making choices.

even if they both made the mistake of thinking her having this kind of relationship could be tolerated...does that mean that they both LIVE with it once it's been determined that it's a toxic element in the relationship? come on!

i know that some folks have marriages with more then one H or W in it but i guess i must be old fashion. i kind of think one wife is enough and i guess that most would feel that one husband should be enough as well.

coach

Coach, my point is that she did NOT make the same committment going into the marriage that he did. He knew of her feelings about this man and agreed to go forward anyway. I don't think she has the same attitude about committment that he does.

And even if he can somehow force her to give up her boyfriend, that won't change the fact that she views committment in an entirely different light than he. I may be wrong, but I wonder if she even thinks she HAS an obligation to be monogamous?

I am certainly not trying to dash his hopes, I don't think this is a hopeless situation at all, but I think its important to discuss the REAL ISSUE here. I just don't see that it is a matter of meeting her needs. I think he should do that, of course, but I don't believe for a minute that it is the solution to the problem.

<small>[ January 10, 2004, 01:18 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

There was a point when she did completely abandon the guy and tried to make it work with me but I stupidly pushed her away in anger. I asked her repeatedly if she really did want to marry me and she repeatedly said she did. We didn't take the decision lightly. I DO believe it was my not meeting her ENs that caused her to go back to seeing him again. I think it will take time and I will be able to win her back. We had a d-day last night and she said that she will have to abandon him but it has been only a few weeks since our marriage reception and I have been meeting her ENs for that time. I know my previous insensitivity (I was really harsh and sude with her during her pregnancy) is still in her memory and she is responding to my love and caring but I accept that it will take time for me to bring her around completely. I have learned so much from this board, the website and other sources that I never give up hope. I know for certain that it's not a PA because I've been doing a lot of snooping (bugs, personally following etc). I see the ray of light.

any advice from anyone is appreciated. Plan A is going well so far and the fog does descend now and then but things are looking positive. I bite my toungue every time I feel hurt and put up a smile.

Ironbeast, I know where you are guy. But my inlaws wanted W to marry the older guy. I won her heart over though. That was 25 years ago. Sometimes it feels like it will never end. I will never forget what my W told me when we first started dating. "its not like you will be the only one, once you love someone you always will". Boy, what a lesson that turned out to be, because this OM is still around today,(unfortunately he's my inlaws family friend) talking oldtime crap to her. He is also married, but i think would grab my W in a heartbeat.

My advise is accept the fact that this guy will always be in your life. But realize, your ability to meet EN's is what's going to keep your wife in your court. That's what made me sucessful then and still today. OM's are like vultures, they will always circle overhead waiting for you to fail. Good luck and keep reading and learning.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wokeup:
<strong> Ironbeast, I know where you are guy. But my inlaws wanted W to marry the older guy. I won her heart over though. That was 25 years ago. Sometimes it feels like it will never end. I will never forget what my W told me when we first started dating. "its not like you will be the only one, once you love someone you always will". Boy, what a lesson that turned out to be, because this OM is still around today,(unfortunately he's my inlaws family friend) talking oldtime crap to her. He is also married, but i think would grab my W in a heartbeat.

My advise is accept the fact that this guy will always be in your life. But realize, your ability to meet EN's is what's going to keep your wife in your court. That's what made me sucessful then and still today. OM's are like vultures, they will always circle overhead waiting for you to fail. Good luck and keep reading and learning. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Thanks wokeup, this guy is doing exactly that I think, he keeps telling her she will always be welcome to him if my W ever leaves me...she's the center of my world and I'm doing my best to meet all her ENs and I believe I am getting better all the time. I have the advantage that my in-laws are on my side but I don't want to tell them this is going on because that will be a huge LB and my in-laws would be extremely harsh on her. That wouldn't help me one bit. My WW has said that she intends to end it and OM won't wait forever on just sporadic phonecalls and short meetings but I am not fooled for a minute...the fog can descend any time.

having trouble with the light-of-day issue...wife has told me it will be a HUGE love-buster if I spill the beans about her seeing OM to ILs. She thinks I'm her husband and I should deal with it on my own...She has not set a particular date to end it permanently...should I continue plan A for about 6 months and then if it's not completely over spill the beans? Her friends will side with her, this I know...even if they think it's wrong...my friends can but comfort me, they can't put any pressure on her. Her parents are both of fragile health (heart problems, BP, arthritis, diabetes etc etc) and are poth very nice to me. If (God forbid) they hear the news and have a heart attack or something W will never forgive me and I don't think I can forgive myself.