First I would like to thank all of you for your past support... This board has truly gotten me through some of the worst times in this process.... We have reached a new point in our dealing with this- and we decided to seperate.... WS moved out last Sat....

From a MB standpoint- I have done my own version of a Plan A (which I honestly didnt know I was doing until I read SAA and found this site- it is the way I would have handled this anyway...) But I have read threads in the past about pros/cons with Plan B... And I understand the principals behind Plan B- but dont necessarily agree with them all.... I dont think my LB is completly drained... We have two kids at home- one of them is 2- and I just dont think that with the financial constraints and the working out of the kid visit issues that a true Plan B is possible... (Honestly to some of you this maybe just excuses... And maybe you are right- but I have tried to logically think through it- and I just dont agree with everything Plan B is....) Maybe part of it also is that I dont want to feel guilty for "failing" at Plan B...

I have spent the last year working on myself- and the things that I knew contributed to the A... I feel very good about how far I have come... But I do know that we are at very different points in this process- and we both are fighting very different demons.... He has told me that during this time it is not to see the OW- and truly at this point I believe him.... (this is part of what I needed to work on- and just let go of what I can't control...) I do hope and pray that both of us use this time to "put things in perspective".... And believe me I am trying... But last nite was really difficult..... I know that I should be focusing on ME during this time- and over the last year I have- (while still living together...) And now I feel like- "Ok now what...?" I know that all the things I discovered and learned through this time- I need to constantly be working on- but how do you just make it through the nites...?....(I am up from 2 am- 5 am pretty much every nite...) I have tried reading... Journaling... reading this site.... But all this STUFF just keeps my brain SO full that I can't sleep...

I guess my original question is- Is there anyone out there that went through a seperation without being in Plan B?...... If so how did it work out?....

<small>[ January 11, 2004, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: OuchThisHurts ]</small>

Ouch,
My H and I were separated and I didn't have to go to plan B. Let me tell you though it about drove me crazy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> (which would be a fairly short drive)

This is what I learned, I should have let him be separated more. Don't do his laundry, cook for him everynight etc. Don't LB but he chose to live apart let him pay for his choices.

My H and I were together almost everynight or at least 4 or 5 night a week after about the first couple of weeks of separation. Even if he went out with his buddies,he would wind up at my apartment <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> . I didn't know if I was his wife, his gf, someone he was cheating on OW with........it was very hard.

However, that said, I think it helped so much b/c we did have "our" space. He saw me do things he had never seen. I decorated MY apartment the way I wanted to. It was like we were dating, I made sure I looked very good when he was coming over. Even kissing him bye at my door in the morning I made sure I looked sexy. I wanted him to remember what he had just left and not the wife that told him by in her flannel bathrobe.

Also towards the end (not long before he moved back) I was to the end of my rope. Everyday he came and went with a change of clothes and his *$&$ diddy bag as he calls it. I wanted to go to plan B but Tak and Star kept advising me to stay in Plan A and just put up some boundaries which I did. I started to kinda be slighly unavailable, not jump when the phone rang to answer it. NO laundry, etc. Those boundaries kinda helped me from not feeling like a door mat, b/c let me tell ya he could be king of the cakeeaters. That is the situation you need to avoid.

I suggest you buy the book boundaries and read it NOW. The nights are the worst. I learned to survive on a very few hours sleep <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> . try a glass of wine before you go to bed, you won't be tipsy but it will help you relax.

le

read this it's long..........yesterday was the first time I had read it. I wish I had read it when I was going through this.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=014880;p=1

I guess ouch, what I was trying to say in all that rambling up there is I kinda treated the separation like we were dating. We had so much fun, we did things all the time. We weren't couch potatoes. We laughed, really enjoyed each other and if we wanted to spend more time he stayed and if we really didn't he went home (or I did) I think it helped us appreciate each other more....

hope this helps..
le

Ouch, Plan B should be contingent upon WHERE you are in recovery, not whether or not you are seperated. Plan B is not that hard to do when you have kids, many others here have done it. It's not a perfect Plan B, but Plan B it is.

Plan B should be done AFTER a good Plan A when a WS is on the fence and can't make up his mind. Plan A can have a damaging effect to the marriage if it is conducted TOO LONG. In effect, it enables the affair to continue longer than it normally would because the WS has no motivation to end the affair. And who would want to end a set up where he is getting his needs met in TWO places? Sort of like a harem.

I would also point out that seperating is never a positive move. It is certainly of no benefit to your marriage. It is much harder to fix a marriage when you aren't there. Most WS' seperate for one reason and one reason only: to have unbridled freedom to meet with the OP. They ALWAYS say its not, but it almost always IS. A person committed to resolving maritial problems doesn't leave, they stay.

I don't know where you are in your process or how long you have been in Plan A, but if your S has been on the fence for a few months, I would suggest that Plan A may actually be IMPAIRING your chances of recovery. I wouldn't rule out Plan B as an option, even with kids it can be done.

<small>[ January 11, 2004, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Plan B without separation -- I called Harley on his radio show and asked about it. He said it doesn't work, and it really is withdrawal.

Well, my IC said it was disengagement which was how I could stop LBing because I was so upset about the A. It did help me to "starve conflict" but it did not rebuild the M. If I had it to do over again, I would have separated -- and we have 4 kids under 10, one of whom is 2.

Anyway, the book that the IC recommended for this is called The Solo Partner. I summarized it. It was my Bible for about a year.

This same IC also told me not to call the woman's H, I did so, and that's how the A came to light. I have a lot of respect for her and still go to IC to her, but I think I should have called the OWH right away and followed a true Plan B.

Hope this helps ---

The Solo Partner


Chapter 1 The Pain of Change
Put pain to constructive use to resolve your relationship problems.
The only person you can directly change is yourself.
By changing yourself, you can indirectly change your partner.
The key to change is maintaining effort.

Chapter 2 Self-Deception: Our Inner Enemy
Accept responsibility.
We deceive ourselves by overlooking, rationalizing, justifying.
False hope is the belief that the cause of and solution to our predicament rests outside us.
We become open to change after a period of hopelessness.
Emotional reactivity is progressive.

Realization is when we begin to focus not on our partners but on ourselves.
Before realization, we have a complacent, unrealistically hopeful attitude.
With realization, we liberate ourselves from self-deception. This involves grieving, and these are the feelings involved:
1) Denial: this can’t really be happening.
2) Anger: hurt; anger directed at partner; why was I so stupid?
3) Despair: unhappiness as we feel the full weight of the loss of our dream; self-doubt, loneliness, and fatigue.
4) Acceptance: stronger sense of personal responsibility; no longer see ourselves as innocent victims.
The last glimmer of false hope has been extinguished.

By seeing through our own self-deceptions and facing any personal shortcomings, we upset the status quo in our relationship.

Chapter 3 Emotional Reactivity: An Endless Cycle in Troubled Marriages
Act: something we do of our own volition
React: behave in opposition to our natural behavior or in response to pressure from someone else

Pattern for emotional reactivity:
1) Emotional triggers can lead to a reaction based solely on immediate emotional impulses and without thought of future consequences.
2) The partner needs to be drawn in; baiting can then occur and the provoker is satisfied by the response.
3) Escalation occurs when each partner focuses on the other. The goal is not to resolve an issue. It is to hurt, defy, spite, attack, defend, patronize, or provoke.
4) Recovery may not happen.

Nonengagement starves emotional reactivity.
High emotional reactivity will shut down communication and low reactivity will open it up.

Stages in the process of change:
1) What needs changing is identified, and an alternative behavior is planned.
2) When the situation comes up, the behavior is the same.
3) The situation is recognized, but the behavior is the same.
4) The situation is recognized, and the alternative behavior is followed.

Keep your plan and goal to yourself.

When your partner starts a reactive exchange, identify the baiting behavior. People usually have only about 6 – 10 baiting behaviors.

Chapter 4 Being Defensive: The Illusion of Self-Protection
Being defensive is one of the ways we cover up certain of our recurrent behaviors rather than trying to change them, and denial is one of our most common mechanisms. Our defensiveness keeps us from seeing ourselves realistically, in spite of he feedback we receive about our need to change. Denial followed by attack moves the focus off ourselves and onto our partners, so that we can see their every shortcoming, and none of our own.

Once we are defensive, we see all information as threatening and attacking. We cannot distinguish between a valid complaint and a hostile retaliation. We do not evaluate the truthfulness of the message but rather dismiss the criticism so that we are protected from immediate emotional discomfort. Interpretations and assumptions are made that support what we want to hear rather than what was actually said. If some information was taken in, it is explained away, simply denied, or the subject is changed. Then we counterattack and escalate.

Your real power for improvement lies in unraveling your own defensive mechanisms. Try to accept that there will be pain when you start coming to terms with the truth of what is being said to you, and remember that you will benefit in the long run. If a criticism was accurate, the fastest way to get over your pain is to start working on changing the criticized behavior. Observe, listen, and reflect, rather than automatically dismissing, blaming, or attacking the messenger.

Chapter 5 Togetherness: Balancing “I” and “We”
The ideal balance is for the partners to develop an ability to act together as well as apart, and to feel part of a “we” without feeling they are giving up their individuality and uniqueness. When agreements are forced, it often means no longer expressing true feelings because doing so would leave the person open to attack or ridicule. This in turn leads to resentment. True “I” statements are made as an action and are open to new information and input from others. Reactive “I” statements are made to defy, hurt, spite, placate, manipulate, or intimidate the other person or to defend oneself.

When people do not respect each other’s opinions, the thing they have the right opinion and try to force that opinion on others. Real communication ends as both attack each other’s opinions and defend their own. The key is to learn to express our opinions while not defending ourselves against attack. By not defending yourself against attack, you alone can create an atmosphere where differences will at least be tolerated and at best will enrich both lives. There is an old saying – “Never answer an angry word with an angry word – it is the second word that makes the quarrel.”

No victory can come from intimidating someone into agreeing with you. No victory comes from keeping silent and giving in to placate your partner. If you lie either to yourself or your partner about who you really are, both you and your relationship will suffer.

The key to success lies in confronting yourself and in not confronting your partner. Long-lasting improvement in any relationship comes more from changing negative behavior than from expressing negative feelings.

You will need to learn how to express you opinion as a subjective view rather than as an absolute truth. When you find yourself under attack, concentrate on not defending your opinion; simply state your view and say nothing more. Do not explain why you feel this way, or answer your partner’s charges, or try to reason with or persuade him. Nothing more needs to be said or done. Your opinion is simply a statement of what you think, feel or believe. Always keep in mind that your goal is to express and respect your mutual differentness. Learn to state your position without being drawn into an argument.

The stages of success are:
1) a mutual cessation of attack or retaliation when differences emerge
2) each of you are more open to the differences between you
3) a mutual respect for your differences will emerge.

Chapter 6 Dealing with “Who is to Blame?”
Blame is most frequently communicated in the form of “you” statements, such as “Why did you” and often implies that the partner had ulterior motives or intentionally did something injurious. Laying blame will always cause a reaction.

Assume that each of us is responsible for our own actions. Trying to force your partner to see his own faults will only worsen the relationship. When we focus on ourselves and work on our own problems, our life with our partner improves. It is counterproductive to vent. Release your feelings on another way. Learn to not react to your partner’s retaliations, no matter how provocative and malicious they seem to be.

Decide ahead of time what point you want to convey. Plan to convey that point in a nonreactive way by making brief “I” statements. Stay away from statements about what your partner is doing to you. Instead, concentrate on what you have allowed to be done to you. Focus on specific behaviors rather than a condemnation of your partner in general. Take responsibility for change where it can have some positive outcome.

Learn to identify the area in which your partner blames you and observe exactly what is said and how it is said. Before you react, try to understand what part is truly your own responsibility. Then try to distinguish between what your partner is blaming you for and what you are responsible for. Never try to convince your partner to accept your view; never ridicule or attack your partner in reaction to a provocation. If your partner reacts, say nothing. Not reacting to blame is what will ultimately reach your partner. It’s OK to say “I don’t want to talk anymore right now. I’m too upset.”

Chapter 7 Using Your Anger Constructively
What to do with anger?
1) Express it, and the result is reactive confrontations or alienation from partner
2) Do not vent it, and you are drained emotionally and physically

What are forms of anger?
1) Shouting or screaming
2) Not saying anything
3) Bodily reactions
4) Delayed behavior
5) Tone of voice

Different stages of anger:
1) Unresolved anger can turn into resentment and then bitterness
2) There is a need for a reactive encounter regardless of future consequences
3) The reactive infection stage
4) Escalation

A common source of anger is our expectations. There are three things you can do:
1) Smolder in your anger
2) Lower your unmet expectations
3) Leave the relationship
If you lower your expectations, you can honestly reevaluate both your relationship and yourself. You need to deal with reality. When you lower your expectations, you also must see your own faults as well and move toward a solution. By focusing on your own shortcomings, you can learn that your partner has a great deal of justification for his complaints. The less we expect of our partners (and the more we expect of ourselves), the more we receive. When an attitude of “expect nothing, get nothing” dominates a relationship, people stop doing something for their partner unless it is angrily demanded.

Nothing constructive comes from out-of-control anger. Start thinking along the lines that your partner may not change. The focus then shifts from your partner to yourself. Then you reach the point of realization where you begin to find solutions to your problems. Your pain is due to the death of your self-deception. Work at getting behind the anger to the hurt, disappointment, and finally the loss you feel. When you accept this loss, you will also eliminate your anger. The bigger the fantasy and the longer it was held, the more time it is likely to take to give it up.

Having accepted that the problem is not going to go away, you must ask yourself what you are going to do about it and whether you are willing to settle for this situation.
It is easier to vent at the partner than to look at your own shortcomings. We may try dealing with reality, but reality will deal with us.

Chapter 8 Pursuit and Distance Between Partners
The pursuer seeks togetherness at the expense of personal autonomy and individuality. She feels emotionally secure only when her life revolves around others. The distancer feels crowded. She emotionally pursues him by wanting to know what he feels, wanting resolution of their problem, and wanting it at once. Concurrently, he distances himself emotionally from her, seeking space to think about it, hoping the problem will go away by itself or that she will wait until he comes up with a solution in his own time and way. For every step she takes toward him, he moves one away from her.

The pursuer gives up and looks for other ways to fill the emptiness. The distancer’s self-centeredness and isolation lead to boredom and emptiness. He also seeks ways to relieve his discomfort. Pursuit and distancer problems often start when a legal or emotional commitment is made to the marriage. The pursuer needs to acknowledge the gap between her expectations and reality.

Both pursuit and distance are reactive behaviors which become progressively worse over time, unless one partner’s efforts succeed in putting a stop to them. Change will be initiated by the person who is most uncomfortable. He will change only when he fears losing the pursuer. Distancers tend to change in direct proportion to how much their pursuers modify their pursuit.

These are the pursuer’s options:
1) continue the pursuit in the hope of emotionally engaging the partner; this is a fantasy which ultimately leads to frustration, exhaustion, and emotional bankruptcy
2) separate
3) stop pursuing

Pursuers are addicted to togetherness and the need to stay in a relationship – even a bad one. They settle for very little and express their disappointment, frustration, and anger in hostile, critical ways. They become responsible for other people’s problems. This caretaking can become manipulative and controlling, and can backfire because people resist efforts to change them. They find it easy to blame others.

Pursuer can only reach the distancer by distancing herself from him – emotionally and physically. The only way to catch a distancer is to be more distance than he is.


Chapter 9 Stopping Pursuit: Guidance for Pursuers

Never pursue a distancer. Do as little as possible for him and with him, with the goal of doing absolutely nothing. Learn how to fill your life in new ways, seeking other people who will meet your emotional needs. You will be forced to develop some emotional autonomy. Change your expectations and give up the pursuit. Your improvement can occur only after your illusion of finding happiness and completeness through someone else collapses. Pursuers tend to follow, but distancers tend to procrastinate, so it is up to the pursuer to make changes.