My A ended one year ago today. My H confronted me that he knew about it 2 days later. I have changed jobs, and relocated our family so as not to be in the area of the OM. I have had no contact (not a formal NC letter), but still no concact with OM since 3/30/03. I do know that OM has called MY old house in November (caller ID is a wonderful thing)! But I have NOT contacted OM. I have told my H all the details about A, how it started, what my emotional state was when it started, etc. But still my H does not believe that I am back in our marriage 100%. I will confess that until I made the OM, who was my boss, leave his job (for many reasons), that I did still have contact (but not a continuation of the A) with him then, and that I did lie and decieve my H many times. So my question now is... How do I go about trying to restore my H's faith in me that I AM back in our marriage and want it to stay together. I have thought about writing a formal apology letter to him, and we have even discussed a formal NC letter and sending it to the OM at his home address where we know that OM's wife will read it (she did not know about MY A, only suspected that my OM was having an A with someone else, which I know that he definately WAS). But we have not done this yet. Only talked about it. So, back to my question... What else can I do to convince my H that I AM TOTALLY 100% recommitted to OUR marriage and to keeping it together?

royally

Understand that if he was like most spouses he never believed you would have an affair.

So believing isn't something he has alot of faith in right now.

Secondly it shattered his faith in you. When putting something back together that has been so thoroughly shattered there are alot of pieces to glue back on.

You are wanting something big and symbolic to prove to him you are true. Sorry there isn't anything that equals the impact the affair had on him.

There are no heroic tests like pulling him from a burning building or taking a bullet from him.

All you can do is be consistent. Consistent in making him safe by being accountable for your time and communicating with him. Cosistent with your love whether its little tokens of love like a greeting card in his car or bigger ones like saying I still love when he rages in pain at you.

Affair recovery ranges from an optimistic only one year to a realistic 2 to 5 year range.

So recovery will not be a sudden event rather a gradual process where each day you take two steps forward for each step back.

Thanks for your prompt reply. I do know that there is nothing "fast acting" that I can do to "fix" this. You are right. My H never saw it coming. But I must say that neither did I. I think the worst part about my A is that I let it continue for almost 2 years. And I know that recovery takes at least as long as the A itself. I have thought of the things that you mentioned about cards in his car or just little notes, but my H is not really a "romantic" sort of person and I'm not sure that he would appreciate things like that or just keep telling me that I'm "playing games" with him. I have, ever since he comfronted me with his suspicion of my A, with one exception, which I have since told him about, been honest with him about my whereabouts and my time. And we have actually been communicating better in the past month, better than we have in years.
I really DO understand his reluctance to believe in me, because if I were in his shoes, I would feel the same way. However, I am feeling a desperate need that he is not meeting MY emotional needs in certain areas as well. I guess that is starting to get me down. So how do I overlook my own needs at this point, and continue to meet his, and to get him to meet my EN (eventually), so that he will realize I really DO want ot stay marriied to him.

Thanks for your prompt reply. I do know that there is nothing "fast acting" that I can do to "fix" this. You are right. My H never saw it coming. But I must say that neither did I. I think the worst part about my A is that I let it continue for almost 2 years. And I know that recovery takes at least as long as the A itself. I have thought of the things that you mentioned about cards in his car or just little notes, but my H is not really a "romantic" sort of person and I'm not sure that he would appreciate things like that or just keep telling me that I'm "playing games" with him. I have, ever since he comfronted me with his suspicion of my A, with one exception, which I have since told him about, been honest with him about my whereabouts and my time. And we have actually been communicating better in the past month, better than we have in years.
I really DO understand his reluctance to believe in me, because if I were in his shoes, I would feel the same way. However, I am feeling a desperate need that he is not meeting MY emotional needs in certain areas as well. I guess that is starting to get me down. So how do I overlook my own needs at this point, and continue to meet his, and to get him to meet my EN (eventually), so that he will realize I really DO want ot stay marriied to him.

s.u.r, it sounds like you are on the right track, but some things that might help tremendously would be to send the NC letter and to give your H all your passwords [voicemail, cell phone, etc]. It would also help if you were in contact throughout the day and ALWAYS knew where the other was. The NC letter will be a big help because it is a huge demonstration that have chosen your H OVER the OM.

Other than that, you will just have to be patient and continue to demonstrate your trustworthiness. It will take time, but you can make it easier if you do the above things.

Have you read the things on the website to try and determine what happened in your marriage that led to this affair? It will be critical to find out what led to this so it doesn't happen again and to affair proof your marriage.

Also, can you send your H to us so we can help him?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by screwed up royally:
<strong>
I really DO understand his reluctance to believe in me, because if I were in his shoes, I would feel the same way. However, I am feeling a desperate need that he is not meeting MY emotional needs in certain areas as well. I guess that is starting to get me down. So how do I overlook my own needs at this point, and continue to meet his, and to get him to meet my EN (eventually), so that he will realize I really DO want ot stay marriied to him. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have y'all taken the emotional needs questionaires from this website? Are you in counseling? I think your unmet needs might be a touchy subject right now, but I think it should be introduced as carefully as possible. He really does need to understand what your needs are so that you can work on fixing the thing that made you vulnerable for an affair.

Can you get him to read the book Surviving an Affair?

The problem with the vast majority of marriages is that both spouses put time alone with each other at the bottom of the list of things to do when it should be the first thing on top. Granted it may feel ackward the first few times that you two go out on a date, but if he enjoys it as much as you do, then you two will have rediscovered what each of you loved about the other. The best gift you two can give to your children is falling in love with each other, and that can only happen if you make the time to spend alone with each other.

ML,
Thanks for your response. I have given him all my passwords. He know that I am here. He also is a reader of MB and he knows my sign on name. We have both read the books, and the web sites. That's how I got here in the first place. We are not currently in counselling, because we tried that and the councillor's advice was to think about a formal separation, which we neither one wanted at the time. We haven't been back since. As for the questionaires, we only went over them together verbally, but nothing in writing.As to the formal NC letter, he says he wants to wait on that until I am a little more stable in my new job, so that I can concentrate on what I need to do for my new job (I need to sit for a very important exam which will not only secure my job, but increase my pay as well).
But we have come to some realizations of where we grew apart and what led me to being vunerable to having an affair. We do have more contact with each other now, even when I am at work during the day.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by screwed up royally:
<strong> As to the formal NC letter, he says he wants to wait on that until I am a little more stable in my new job, so that I can concentrate on what I need to do for my new job (I need to sit for a very important exam which will not only secure my job, but increase my pay as well).
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">screwed, it won't interfere with your job. It takes all of 5 minutes to write and then you just whip it off in the mail. Real short, sweet and to the point.

In fact, I think there is a sample letter that is really good in Surviving an Affair. Does anyone have it handy?

SUR,

Well I am going to offer you some advice that might sound as if it is off the wall. Actually, it might be. I am sure the others will correct me if I am wrong. First, permit me to address some things you said. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I really DO understand his reluctance to believe in me, because if I were in his shoes, I would feel the same way. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, you had a TWO YEAR affair. How long have you been married? Do you two have children? His reluctance to believe you however is as much about his ability to trust himself and his judgment as it is about him trusting you. You need to consider, that your long affair has done a real number on his self-esteem and therefore on his ability to trust you or anyone else. Think about this.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">However, I am feeling a desperate need that he is not meeting MY emotional needs in certain areas as well. I guess that is starting to get me down. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why is that? Is it because you are out of withdrawal after 10 months of NC with OM? Why and what needs do you feel desperate about?


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So how do I overlook my own needs at this point, and continue to meet his, and to get him to meet my EN (eventually), so that he will realize I really DO want ot stay marriied to him. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Let's see he doesn't feel sure he can trust you with his love, right? He knows he cannot trust you now, right? So WHY would he invest in meeting your needs?? Because he is a mindreader? He is so without self-respect that he can do nothing but hope he can make you happy? SUR, what you are seeing is his self protection. He is not going to RISK much right now.

YOu need to understand that 10 months of no contact is a small portion of a 2 year affair and all of the lies that went with it. You being honest for 10 months, will NOT off-set two years of lies.

However, I think there is a way for you to get your needs met, and also show him that you are at least thinking about a long term commitment. What you do is....

Set him down and tell him that you need his help. You want this marriage to last but you need his help and what you need is... (list your needs). Explain that you cannot provide this help yourself, but you would really like him to help you. You want a VERY long marriage to him and you need his help.

Yes, it is that simple. It is not a demand, it is simply asking him for his help. You may not realize this but if you quietly and lovingly ask for his help, you are opening yourself up, you are showing him you care and need him, you are showing him that he does have some control via his help, and finally that you are thinking long term with him. Now he may or may not agree to help. Now matter what HE decides to do, thank him for listening to you and for considering helping you. Then leave it alone.

My guess is that your H will start to meet those needs, perhaps slowly, but he will because he does love you or he would be gone. You have hurt him deeply but he is still there. Don't you ever take that for granted. Don't you let a week go by that you don't thank him for being there. But, because he is there, I would bet that he will try and meet these needs if they are presented as a plea for help and NOT a demand in order to keep the marriage going.

You build by allowing people to help you, and you helping them. Often the most powerful thing you can do, is allow someone to help you. Think about that.

God Bless,

JL

SUR,

I just read your earlier posts. Permit me to offer a suggestion as to how to open up and express your feelings. Try writing them down. Sit down and write a narrative of your A, what you felt, what you decided, who decided what. As you do this start to flesh it out with your feelings. Where you in a happy mood, somber mood, fearful, excited. Start to use adjectives in your writing.

Then sit down and think about your H. Describe how you see him, what you see, what you fear for him, what you fear from him, what you would like for him to feel, what you would like to feel when you are with him. Write, and write some more, and then start to give your writings to him and allow him to read them and ask questions.

Sometimes people do better if they can get their WHOLE thoughts down without interruption, you may be one of those people. One thing that also may be limiting you is a sense of protection or preservation. But, you have already told your H the worst thing a W could tell him, except that the children are NOT his. So what are you afraid of? That he might understand you, that he might see your weaknesses?

If you want this marriage to work, he needs to see them. He needs you to open up, THAT is how you show your commited to this marriage and are back in it. You do it by TRUSTING him, which is something you have never done. He cannot trust you or learn to if you do not trust him.

Think about it.

God Bless,

JL

{Oh JL...I miss your postings! Where have you been???}

SUR, I was reading your thread and marshalling my thoughts to write to you and then darn it, JL stole my thunder <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ...he said what I was going to say...so I'll have to settle for seconding what he said instead... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> ...as always, he offers excellent observations.

It is SO hard to trust YOURSELF again as a BS...so very very hard...keep that in mind.

As for asking for help, I've found this to be a great way to work towards intimacy again...trust is hard, and especially hard to give to someone that has hurt you. Being open and vulnerable clearly demonstrates that you are putting your trust in him...although I was the BS, I too needed to regain/reinforce my H's trust in me so I followed JL's advice and asked for his help. I believe this has given us a tremendous boost in recovery and I'd recommend this approach wholeheartedly.

As for N/C letter, here's a link to a bunch of samples...I believe the first one is the one Melody refers to in SAA...

sample no contact letters

Best of luck to you...awed

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 11:13 AM: Message edited by: awed18 ]</small>

SUR - Your situation resembles mine (I'm the WS). I had a lengthy affair and my H is having trouble with all the images that keeps playing over and over in his mind. I came to this site looking for support rather than admonishments.

Not everybody will be understanding towards you. For me, I would become very defensive and this was not helping my marriage at all.

I've read the responses you've gotten on this thread and applied it to my situation (along with all the suggestions to my own post).

It helps to hear that you're not a scum and that there is hope.

It's been almost 3 years since my A ended and my H confronted me. We have so many setbacks and it gets very discouraging at times. It helps to get encouragement to keep going and trying.

My H too is having a lot of trouble (understandably) trusting me again. He also couldn't believe that I'd do something like this -- I couldn't either. I used to admonish people who had affairs!

I would like to put this all behind me quickly but my H feels that if we just sweep this under the rug and never bring it up, it will be like I got away with it. I argue that of course, but then I can also see his point of view, now.

I can't give you a whole lot of advice as I'm still learning myself. Just want to give you encouragement as it sounds like you truly want to repair what happened.

Typist,
Thank you very much for your words of encouragement. I admit that the biggest part of my problem is that I do get very defensive when my H and I do talk about my A. I have come to believe that it is a protective mechanism because sometimes I am still not 100% sure that HE wants to stay with me. I am still struggling with this sometimes, and I find that I am constantly reminding myself that if he had wanted to leave, he would be LONG gone by now.
I too, used to admonish others who had affairs. I truthfully never thought that I would end up having one myself. And I, too, would like to put this all behind me. However, I have finally become more realistic and realize that this is not something that will ever go away, only diminish with time. And I do know that 10 months after NC is not anywhere near enough.
Don't get me wrong...my H and I have more recently had some of the BEST conversations (at least I think so), that we have had together in years (We've been married for 13 years, together for 18, and have 3 girls, 8,5,and 3 years old).
(I think this may help to answer some of the questions that others have asked me as well.)
The other thing is that I DO realize that this will NEVER go AWAY!! That would be a totally unrealistic way of thinking. But it is encouraging to know that someone else is in similar shoes to my own. And that it hopefully may someday be better. Thanks, Typist, for the encouragement.
JL, thanks for your response. I have previously written to my H. In fact, for a while I was writing almost every night. I will admit that this is something that I have not done for quite some time. Perhaps it is something that I should try to start again.
Also Awed, I think that I like your idea of going ahead and doing my NC letter. But in deference to my H, since he has asked me to wait, I will have to ask his opinion and take my action from there.

SUR,

I think you are NOT realizing something. If you open up to your H and ask for his help, and if you can and will talk about your A without getting defensive (I mean what is there left to defend??), you will see changes in your H.

He needs you to be honest with him and trust him. You said you are not 100% sure he will stay, well what percentage do you think he feels you have of staying??? TRUST SUR, please trust him and he will learn to trust you.

You said something else I would like to take exception with. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The other thing is that I DO realize that this will NEVER go AWAY!! That would be a totally unrealistic way of thinking. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are right and you are wrong. The memory will not go away and it should NOT. But, the emotions associated with your affair will go away, IF you two make your marriage better than it ever was. Make is something you ENJOY working on with him. Smile, touch, laugh, and enjoy your life. Tell that is your goal for yourself and for him. You want him to be able to laugh, smile, and ENJOY coming home to you.

If you reach that state, you will find that affair is gone, but the good residuals will be with you forever.

SUR, you need to start to change how you view things. You have a very forgiving H, he clearly loves you, wouldn't you like to see him happy?? Well, address yourself to that, and talk with him about it.

And then remind him of the age old quote:
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If Mama ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That is why you need his help, to make Mama happy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

It will take time, but if you start to change your perspective, your H will also, and your marriage will very likely become something very very special.

SUR, you did a bad thing, but it IS a LEARNING experience. You and your H can turn this into something very good. It does not take amnesia, it takes changing perspectives.

Something for you to think about.

God Bless,

JL

JL,
I do agree with you when you say that the memory is something that should not go away. Because if it were to go away, then what incentive would I have to safeguard myself against it ever happening again? I am not willing to risk that. 'I' don't want to forget just for that reason.
I have been reading repeatedly over what you and others have written. You have all given me much to think and ponder over. Perhaps telling my H the more of the things that I need and ASKING for his help, will be a good starting point. Perhaps it will give us something to talk about, about the two of us instead of every conversation going right back to my A, which is what seems to make me defensive, uncomfortable, and depressed.
Definately food for thought. Thank you all!!
As for MAMA being happy.......maybe.

Just checking

You are already doing manyof the right things, but it takes time. Trust is destroyed quickly, and rebuilt slowly. The subject of rebuilding trust comes up so frequently that I have created a standard post on the subject. I hope it is helpful. It is the second quote below. The first quote is about something that happened just last week. I think it may help, too. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I recently got some new information about my wife's affair that upset me. When I asked her why she hadn't told me before, she said "I didn't think it was significant. If I knew that it would hurt you, I would have told you." Believe it or not, that answer was very re-assuring, because it showed that she understood that her efforts to protect me from pain by not talking about things she felt would hurt me had been the source of many of our marriage problems, had enabled her affair, and she was not going to continue that pattern. We have a new, better marriage now. Far better than it ever was before. There are still problems. There is still pain. But I would not go back for anything. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would like to point out that one thing that has hindered our affair recovery is my wife's reluctance to tell me what she needed because she felt so guilty that she felt she really didn't deserve much from me, and that she did not want to burden me with "demands" in my pain. Yet, it was not telling me what she wanted and needed that led to her feeling so lonely in our marriage in the first place. She has made great progress in that area, too, but not to the same degree that she has in telling me things that might hurt. You need to be direct and specific about what you want from your H. That is part of being honest. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as I can discern there is really only one approach to re-establishing trust, and a couple of well-established ways to get there. In both cases, the bottom line is: believe their actions, not their words, at least until you have seen a consistent pattern of their words and actions being aligned for a period of many months. That necessarily means you have to be more involved in their lives so that you have the ability to verify that their actions and words are cohesive.

The path to get there, according to Willard Harley, is to have no secrets from each other, and to use the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) in all your decisions. Once you see your spouse consistently use the POJA, and the two of you have learned to understand each other and communicate with each other well enough to implement it, you will trust them when they are out of sight, too. Perhaps ironically, one thing that will convince you of your spouse's honesty is if they tell you things they know will hurt, instead of lying or keeping silent to "protect" you. So this process will likely not be painless, especially since, if you are like most couples, it will require learning a new way to communicate. Change is hard.

A second path, promoted by Carder in “Torn Asunder” (and the younger Harleys, too, I think), is for the WS to really dig in to the "WHY?" of the affair, and in gaining that self-understanding, communicate to you both why it happened, and how they will change their behavior in ways that you can verify and that will prevent them from having another.

Of course, these two paths are not mutually exclusive. I view them as complementary, and think “Surviving an Affair”, by Harley is extremely helpful in figuring out important parts of the why, at least as far as the answer involves unmet Emotional Needs, and it almost always does, especially for a woman who has an affair.

The fallacy is the belief that unmet EN’s “cause” affairs. If that was the case, I would have had the affair, not my wife, because my EN’s were less well met in our marriage than hers.

Unmet EN's do not cause affairs, they cause lousy marriages. If you read Harley thoroughly and carefully, he does not say unmet EN's cause affairs, either, though it is a so common a misconception among his readers that I would say he should do some re-writing of his material. Reading SAA, it can be easy to conclude that unmet needs are the reason for affairs. Not so. Affairs are entirely the responsibility of those involved, and the reasons vary.

Our MC worked w/ Bill Harley for 8 years, and according to him, in about 80% of MEN'S affairs unmet EN's had very little to do with it. Yes, there were usually unmet EN's in their marriages, because no marriage is perfect. But, having the wife find out about and meet his most important EN's did not stop the affairs from re-kindling or stop the husband from having another. Harley is aware of this, which is why his plan for recovery is a lot more complicated than: 1.) Take the EN questionnaire. 2.) Meet your spouse’s EN's. Our MC said that in his opinion, for that 80%, if the wife had been meeting the husband's top 5 EN's PERFECTLY, the husband still would have had the affair. If you want to learn more, read "The State of Affairs", by Todd Mulliken particularly the chapter on "The Double Life Man". Though the percentage of women who have this type of affair is small, it is not zero. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

My H also tells me that my not telling him things because I'm afraid of hurting him more or because my guilt for what I have done is not the 'right' thing to do. I have been trying to make more of an effort to make sure that I DON'T do this. Sometimes, just because of my upbringing, where speaking out about emotions only brought more pain and heartache, this is still difficult for me to do. I have historically, been very closed with my emotions. This has for me, been a protective mechanism. When it is so ingrained into you from earliest childhood, it is a very difficult thing to overcome. Fortunately for me, my H and I mostly grew up together as we lived across the street from each other, so he was frequently in my house while we were growing up, so he does at least understand how my household was and he has been extremely patient with me in this regard.
Last night was our one year 'anniversary' of our D-day. He told me last night that he is no longer "in love" with me. I think that I have in some way been expecting this, just because when my A was discovered, in the early days after D-day, I told him that one reason that I ended up having an A and falling in love with the OM was that even though I still loved him (my H), and that I still cared for him, I was no longer "in love" with him. I was no longer feeling the type of romantic love that should have still been there to cement our relationship and keep me from being vulnerable to another man's advances. My H and I did discuss this later on and had quite a conversation on the subject. So at least we are still talking.
Tonight has been peaceful and quiet. We are at least still talking and I am still hopeful that we can BOTH fall back in love with each other.

SUR,

I think you now have some understanding how what you said to him a year ago hurt him. It is hurting isn't it?

However, since you were there, you can look him in the eye and SMILE. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> You see you KNOW that those feelings of "in love" can be rekindled, you have done it. So tell him that, and simply say you will do your best to be the W he needs and could fall "in love" with again. You know it can be done and you can he can love you.

So start opening up. You defensive mechanisms are normal but they didn't defend you very well did they. So go on the attack (the best defense is a good offense they say) and start to really open up, and then what you might find is that in time you don't need to defend yourself, HE WILL. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You need to trust him here, and I know you feel it is a reach, but trust him and open up. You two are talking now, keep it up. Ask him questions about what he feels, talk about him, then connect what you learn to how you are doing. You two can become a team like you never were before.

It will take time and patience. But, defend yourself by coming out from behind the walls and be there for him. Those are my thoughts.

God Bless,

JL