Yes, call or talk with the OWH. Of course you can not control what the OWH does, but if he asks...perhaps you both can come up with a plan. He probably has some evidence too. I wonder if she's out of town too?

You can DEFINITELY let him know of your H's plan to leave. And let him know about this site. Don't tell him your username...remain anonymous on here. By exposing the A to the OWH, it will help her see the reality of what she is doing. She and WH are living in a fantasy world...they need to come out of the amusement park and begin to live REAL life and deal with the consequences of their actions.

This is a very difficult time. Would you consider talking with your Dr about taking Anti-depressants for the time being? It has gotten many a BS over the hump and helped them to function during this crisis time.

Your M will likely never be the same. In a way this is a good thing. There were problems before this arose. What can you change now before he comes home? What are his top three emotional needs, and can you begin to fulfill them now?
Not saying the A is your fault. But can you begin to help him fall in love with you?

Nid,

I think it is very important that you tell the OWH. He may be an innocent party in some ways, but he deserves to know the truth. I would meet him if I were you and bring copies of the cell phone bill. Tell him your story - that your H has been lying to you, the OW has been lying, and that you suspect they are both considering leaving their marriages. Besides, the OW came into the picture, destroyed your life but she gets to play happy wife and good spouse to her H every night? I don't think so. She has this coming. It's time for her to deal with the wreckage too. I too found out from cell phone bills.

In my case, at first OWH didn't know. It made me sick because all during the A, she begged my H to leave me to be with her. D-Day came, and H ended the A abruptly. She cried and pleaded and came around for a little while (he told me everything). OW even told my H they could "continue the way they were (stay married and continue the A) and she would be happy". What a sick person! I wasn't about to share my H with OW and H knew this. After about a month she gave up and went back to her stable-but-miserable life with her H with no consequences after she completely blew up my life. I waited a few months - it was kind of hard to reach OWH because I only had their home phone. But when I did, I told him the whole story and offered to meet him to show him proof. OWH didn't need any. He thanked me for telling him. They are divorced now. Do I care? Not at all. Telling OWH was the best thing I ever did - I felt a huge sense of relief. Maybe OW will think twice next time she gets involved with a married man.

I wish you luck on your confrontation with your husband. It's not going to be easy but you deserve to know the truth.

HI Nid,
I'm really sorry you are going throught this. It's horrible beyond belief.

I wanted to add a caution; if you tell OWH your source, he'll probably tell her, and she'll tell your H.

Also, I would not be suprised, if you called OWH today, to find that she is out of town, also. I travel alot for business, and it's happened more than a few times that someone used a corporate training w/hotel to hook up with an OP. I am really sorry.

Every BS I've read about says that if they had to do it again (dday: revealing to your H you know), that the BS would be Much less emotional, but also calmer, and SMARTER...

Be smart: most likely, if you get him back it will be because YOU were being smart (not emotional!); and if he leaves, better that there was less 'begging', which I've read here over and over that the BS's totally regret (and doesnt work, btw).

I am sorry. Please take care of yourself - Dru

Elad, thanks. I will talk to OWH soon, in a few days.

Stillhere, the OW is not out of town. I checked. I don't think I need anti-depressants. Talking to everyone here helps a lot, but I have also scheduled an appointment with my former MC.

As far as his needs go, when we began marriage counseling 5 months ago (H only went to 3 sessions!), I began meeting all of his needs as discussed in MC. But obviously, his heart was not here and it didn't make a difference. I guess he was and still is in the fog. I discovered he was having this EA 5 months ago and asked him to end it. I even called OW and told her to stay out of my M. She had no business talking to my H about me and our M (which is what my H told me). He has sworn up and down to me that he no longer talks to her. LIE. If his heart is not in this marriage do I continue with Plan A. How do I bring my self to do this, knowing all the while he's with her too???

Mehypes, you're right, OWH does deserve to know. And I will talk to him in a few days after I have figured out where to begin, what to say, and what to do.

Drucilla, I'm trying to be in control and smart. But it is so hard not to just explode! I want the OW's life to come tumbling down as mine has. So far I have done well not saying anything yet to H. I want to talk to OWH first and gather more eveidence. Don't worry I will not beg. If he really wants her over our M, I will let him. My son and I will be fine. I am done groveling as I did a few weeks ago. Especially now that I KNOW all my suspicions are true!

When I am alone, I let my pain go. He lied so smoothly. How will I ever trust him again?

<small>[ January 29, 2004, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: nid ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nid:
<strong> If his heart is not in this marriage do I continue with Plan A. How do I bring my self to do this, knowing all the while he's with her too???
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It may help for you to think of your H as temporarily insane. Or abducted by aliens who scrambled his brain as an experiment to see what he'd do. Or whatever it takes for you to visualize him as not really him - somebody else occupying his body.

Because any of those possibilities is easier to accept than what you're witnessing. AND - if you can stop trying to make sense out of what he's doing and adopt the approach that for now - until the Mothership releases him - he is not in control. He is not your H. His heart IS NOT in your marriage because his brains are scattered. He may actually believe for now that he has found the most perfect woman on the planet. I invite you to read posts by former WSs who were once at this state - and cannot believe what they did and what they thought.

He is on the love drug and it's a powerful thing. The best advice I ever read was in "Private Lies" by Frank Pittman. In so many words he said, "Don't take any of this personally. Sometimes, the best course of action is for the BS to simply find something to occupy themselves while it all plays it self out." MB principles takes that one step further via Plan A - finding and fixing your faults while the WS is off chasing rainbows, and trying to fill his ENs whenever he glances back. This is how you continue with Plan A. Knowing that this is almost all you can do and thinking of him as being out of his mind.

WAT

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nid:
[QB] Elad, thanks. I will talk to OWH soon, in a few days.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It might help to write out an opening script and then follow up with some talking points. It will be important to open the conversation very carefully as I am sure you are aware.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Talking to everyone here helps a lot, but I have also scheduled an appointment with my former MC.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just a suggestion and you take it for what its worth, but the Harleys specialize in infidelity and are very pro marriage. Most counselors are not pro-marriage and are very quick to make recommendations to seperate. Or they bring you back for endless, unproductive sessions. The Harleys are probably one of the most successful counseling teams in the US in restoring marriages and that is because of their principles and because they seem to be extremely astute in detecting and addressing the REAL issue. They seem to be able to accomplish in 2 sessions what most counselors never acheive. Just something to think about.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If his heart is not in this marriage do I continue with Plan A. How do I bring my self to do this, knowing all the while he's with her too???</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The reason his heart was not in it is because he was still carrying on an affair. He couldn't possibly respond to you when he was carrying on with her too. Exposing the affair will help bring a quicker end to the affair and make it possible for you to recover.

You may be very close to Plan B at this point because you have been in Plan A for so long and because his behavior is destroying your feelings. Not only that, but you now know to what lengths he would go to deceive you so he could carry on his affair. That is a double blow. HOWEVER, it is really too soon to tell now, Nid. You are still in shock and are still very angry.

The important thing right now is to take it easy while you calm down so you can think clearly. And whatever you do, don't show your cards or indicate that anything is up to your H, ok? You are a loose cannon right now and if you lose control it could cause damage you don't want to have to deal with in the future. You are mad now but you may feel differently next week when you calm down.

WAT,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In so many words he said, "Don't take any of this personally. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do I do this? It is so personal! Do you know that on New Years Eve we were supposed to have the night alone, but he picked a fight. We got into a terrible fight. Iwas so hurt. He was so cruel to me. Now I see it was probably on purpose so he could leave. HE LEFT ME BY MYSELF ON NEW YEARS EVE!! He left me in a heaving river of tears . . .and didn't care! I was in an emotional frenzy. While he took a shower I got in my car and waited to follow him when he left. He drove like a maniac to get away from me. I nearly hurt myself and another driver trying to catch him. I felt like I was momentarily insane. How could he hate me so much? Needless to say, he lost me and then called a few minutes later. He said he wanted to check on me and see if I was all right! NO! I was NOT all right! He called a few times to check on me. I cried for 6 or 7 hours non stop. Even my dog was scared. He said he was with his friend and I heard his friend in the background, but at about 11:30pm he turned his phone off. Hmm. . .I wonder where he was then? He called me at 2:00 am to say he was on his way home. We talked for less than 1 minute. He called her at 2:02 am and talked to her for 36 minutes. He didn't get home until after that phone call. He was so mean to me when he came home. I have never felt so alone in my life as I did on that night. Now that I know he was probably with her to ring in the f*ing New Year and left me at home alone in total and utter despair. How could he be so cold and callous? I'm hurting so badly I don't know if I can pretend. I will try to do what you said and occupy myself with something else, but whenever I try to concentrate all the lies and pain come crawling back in my head.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> It might help to write out an opening script and then follow up with some talking points. It will be important to open the conversation very carefully as I am sure you are aware </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Melody, I will do this. I'll get started on it tonight. And how do I go about setting up a session with the Harleys? What does it cost?
And I will try my best to not let him know I know. I am sorting feeling like Plan B is necessary too. I'll decide on that when he returns in a few weeks. Meanwhile I'll try to continue Plan A. I sent him a nice email today. He said he would call me later tonight. I am dreading it. I don't even want to hear his voice.

<small>[ January 29, 2004, 11:29 PM: Message edited by: nid ]</small>

nid - sorry I upset you. But I think you described exactly what Pittman was getting at.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nid:
<strong> How could he be so cold and callous? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Because he is not himself. The real H would not have done that to you. That's why you shouldn't take it personally.

I know it's hard to accept.

But you're thinking like a rational person. He is not a rational person. You CANNOT understand him. That's why the alien abduction theory is a plausible explanation. No earthly explanation will do. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

WAT

WAT, YOU didn't upset me. My situation upsets me. You actually made me smile with your alien abduction thing. Thanks.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by nid:
I'll decide on that when he returns in a few weeks. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Very very good! This is the best you can do, Nid. You need to let this all sink in. I know that the kaliescope is shifting right now and you are now remembering things and seeing things in a completely different light. It is very hurtful and very shocking. The worst thing you could do is make a decision when you are in shock.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Meanwhile I'll try to be a good actress and continue Plan A. I sent him a nice email today. He said he would call me later tonight. I am dreading it. I don't even want to hear his voice. [/qb]</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">'

I don't blame you. I know you are in agony but please know that if you act on that feeling, you will only harm yourself. Right now you must have a strategy and stick to it no matter how badly you feel. Come here and VENT TO US where it is safe! Don't harm yourself by venting to him.

The link to contact the Harleys is on the main page here: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi7000_counsel.html

I *THINK* they charge around $180 per session, but from what I hear it is well worth every penny.

<small>[ January 13, 2004, 08:35 PM: Message edited by: MelodyLane ]</small>

Mel, I'll have to think about that. Maybe if he decides to stay, we can do it together. For now, I'll see my MC (insurance covers this). She actually is pro-marriage. Can you believe that in our first session with her, my H actually asked her if she ever reccommends divorce or does she try to save every marriage even when they are so far gone! I think he was hoping for her to encourage us to D! She said only in cases where there is physical or extreme mental abuse does she reccommend a D. She said most marriages can be saved. She gave us a lot of good things to do and try, but my H was not receptive because he wanted out. After 3 sessions he didn't want to go back because he "had heard all he needed to hear". She said we had barely scratched the surface the other day when I called her. I think with all the knowledge I've learned here and all the great advice, I'll know if she doesn't have my M's best interest in mind. But thanks for the heads up.

Nid, in the meantime, please check out all the great articles on this website. There is lots of good stuff that should really help. I am very glad to hear she is pro-marriage. There are so many that aren't!