Ladies<BR>My H has his moments. He called three times yesterday to see if I was lying down.This is something we are working with. Since I haven't been feeling great he hasn't given much attention. Miscommunication. He thought it would be better to leave me alone if I was resting. I told him I would rather he wake me up every half hour to check on me because it makes me feel cared for. <BR>Now the guilt thing. I feel GUILTY if I lay down and take care of myself. How misplaced is that? I have always been that way. I think I should be constantly doing. How is H supposed to deal with that?<BR>And yes I rescue him way too much. So it really is me that I have to work on.

WS, what is this delicate detachment? <P>I feel like if I act like a piece of furniture, then my husband's A-OK.... (No opinion, and a Stepford Wife...)<P>FHL - So how do you "bow out", not fix, probably not analyze, but not become indifferent, and not build resentment? <P>I'm generally good about letting other people's chips fall where they may, but usually don't give up hope that they will learn from their mistakes, or that things will eventually turn out ok. So, in that respect - I think I do this step in the forgiveness workbook pretty well. <P>But, how do you "in a marriage" successfully detach - but in love? If anyone was able to do that, I thought it was me. But I find myself getting simply frustrated in this situation. <P>My 6 year old this morning said on the way to school (He was angry because I made him wear a pair of pants that didn't bag out or droop down 4" beyond his shoes)..."Mom, you are always causing problems in our family. You have a mental problem." Where did he hear that before? From Mr. Mush4Brains? <P>Because he overhears his dad complaining that he can't stay late at work without mom accusing dad of having an affair. He hears his dad saying he never had an affair, and mom has a mental problem. Appropriate? Overstepping his boundaries just slightly?<P>I'm getting so confused, I really don't know which way is out or up or down!<P>WS, I think I'd really like to hear more about "delicate detachment"...!!!<P>What is step 6?

I think that I've got a problem here... Im going to print this out... I see alot of questions that fit me toooo well...

Maybe a first step..the forgiveness workbook.<P>What I've realized in reading what you posted, FHL a pretty valuable lesson to me. <P>H is superior in all aspects (acting out) I am countering that on a defensive superior action, because of insecurity (?)<P>I have problems liking others because of my thinking that I will ultimately be hurt by them, non trusting with most people. I perceive others as being out for their own desires, most times.<P>Things to think about: Regaining a non-judgemental attitude, and giving people (including H) the benefit of the doubt, before issuing accusations. Realizing the paranoia regarding others ill intentions are not always what I perceive (reality).<P>This is a really outstanding thread. When I read what I have written, it's helped me gain a little clarity in my own situation!<p>[This message has been edited by Madelyn (edited September 16, 1999).]

Hi all,<BR>My computer crashed big time. Only have a moment here at work. Keep up the great work...I think we are all learning a lot here. Wish I had more answers about delicate detatchment.<P>Think cl has it down pretty well.<P>I will try to repair computer and be back with you asap.<P>WS...keep resting.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Hi all -<P>I have been a bad girl and have not done my homework the past few days!!!<P>I will go through everything here and promise to say something about it by tomorrow.......Looks like you are doing OK with it!!<P>Sheba<BR>

I missed some of this thread when my computer crashed. What a mess. Now that we have had the weekend to think about this, anything to add?<P>Trustntruth, how was your weekend? Did you see any of this thread being acted out? Don't let your H or anyone make you feel inferior. God does not and we see you are beautiful.<P>WS...what about you? I think your marriage is complex and you are really defining your issues. If you and your H can short circuit some old patterns of behavior and replace them with new patterns that are healthier in your particular relationship, you will be on the road to lasting recovery.<P>cl...wow what great insight, and you are right, you have to let that go. Isn't it great when you realize something and can act on it? You feel empowered, where once you felt weak and vunerable.<P>Sheba...where are you? Check back in.<P>used2Bcozy...any insights after you thought about all of this?<P>Madelyn...glad you found this thread thought provoking. It is easy to get on the downward spiral of responsing to another's attitude of superiority with a negative attitude of our own. You might be interested in the next lesson which is about being judgemental.<P>So, are we finished here or should we knock this around a bit more?<P><BR><P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Uggghhhh!!!<P>I am really having a hard time right now. I feel like I am learning so much, and leaving my husband behind in the dust....<P>I realize the only person I can change is ME. How do we take the "head" knowledge, and move it into the heart without resentment....<P>I guess, all this realization is harder for me to deal with, knowing my husband is "clueless" and just doesn't get it.<P>He made a comment this weekend - "Maybe we are just going through the 10 - 12 year phase"... We both ended our previous marriages between 10 - 13 years. <P>I told him, you know, there are some things that we could be doing that we aren't. I said, "We could be using the Policy of Joint Agreement" - and the "honesty policy"... The Harley methods have been proven to work, but we aren't using them.<P>He just looked at me like he was totally clueless, and also like I was nuts, and he could care less. <P>I lovebusted yesterday. His family drove by our house while we were outside hanging soffit material, etc. I mean, they drove by probably 15 times throughout the weekend. He said - "It's pretty sad, my family can't even stop in the street and say hi to me anymore. If I wasn't married to you, I'd have more of a relationship with my family".<P>You know what? I have built so many walls, to insulate myself from his "superior" attitude, that it doesn't hurt, and doesn't even surprise me. I just said, "Too bad you are married to me. Maybe if you just got a divorce you could have your family."<P>Wrong response? Heh I guess so. I guess I was elevating myself to the superior position, and putting him in the inferior position. I knew it while I did it, and thought "What the heck. I don't think my comments mean too much anyways."

HI tnt,<BR>Good girl!! YOu refused to accept his guilt. Besides, the family could have stopped the car and come over to you tow as you worked on the house. They made the choice to drive by and do nothing. What is so hard to understand about that? Or is he used to you fixing everyting up all the time with the family members? <BR>I think you did a great job!! How did the soffits turn out? <BR>Sun eve I spent about 2 hrs following H around the house-he was screwing in the fascia boards and I was reading HN/HN to him. Yeah it is pitiful....is this how we get the spouses to read the Harley material. YES, in this house it is! He did pay attention and complete the emotinal needs questionairre that he had previously screwed up! Wow, it was an eye opener for me. Number one was openess and honesty (hello?), 2 was admiration, three was affection, 4 was converstaion 5 was sex. Hmmm, we don't match anywhere!! But that was the Harley lesson for the day....and I guess you could say he was a captive audience while up on the ladder!

Trustntruth...it is kind of sad to feel like you are growing and learning and your partner has no interest.<P>Actually my H has come a long way. But he has little use for techniques or reading. He wants to do everything himself. I have yet to figure out exactly what influences him, but since we were both raised in a conservative culture, I think he knows what is "right" from the messages we were raised with and with the examples our family have set for us for generations. He also respects his dad a great deal and I see him becoming more like him as he gets older.<P>I also think ways I have changed have influenced him. I am less sensitive and more willing to resolve conflict. I am less likely to misinterpret or if I do, I come back for clarification and resolution. So although I have always been a goody two shoes plan Aer, I am probibly a more rational, reasonable and predictable wife and maybe that what he is responding to. I don't know. I really don't.<P>Your H only has you for a good example and he seems to be bent on making you the scapegoat when you are probibly the best thing that ever happened to him. Maybe his superiority thing is a result of feeling inferior to all the love you have shown?<P>You might be right in that when you are a Stepford Wife everything is fine. Do you think he fears your individuality and strength or he needs to feel control or he is so unhappy with his own life he does not have the capacity to sustain a real relationship right now?<P>I feel for you, trustntruth. As always, still praying for you.<P>And exactly how could he have a better relationship with his family without you? That's nuts given how disfunctional it was before he even knew you. <P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Soffits are getting there - starting to look good. We have added a 30 x 40 attached garage, with attic bedrooms above, a foyer and putting in a 5x9 nook area into the kitchen. Big job. Been at it 2 years now. I've been the gopher every weekend we are home! I like doing this stuff, and so does my husband. He showed me how to use the saw this weekend. I still have all my fingers. (My dad lost 3 of his on the left hand last Christmas... )<P>Woke up to cold water this morning, one of the heating elements has been out of the electric hot water heater. You can get 2 moderate showers out of it in the morning. So we have a rule that children take their showers at night, we get ours in the morning. I guess the rules don't apply on Mondays?.....or don't apply as long as my husband is not 3rd.....<P>Husband called about an hour ago. How is your day going? I waited to comment, because all I could think about is the COLD water and his attitude! I said, well it is pretty out right now. I think today will be pretty. He said, I asked how your day is going.. I said, well - I had a cold water this morning - and I guess I don't want to talk to you right now. I said "goodbye, it's just better if we don't talk."<P>My husband would throw something at me from on top of the ladder (and it wouldn't be tomatoes!) if I started reading anything about "self help for marriages..." The solution to him is for me to lose my voice, paralyze my face, and spread my legs....!!!<P>Or to go through a programming change to become a Stepford wife!<P>Am I feeling sorry for myself, on my pity pot, or what????<P> <P>

I'm with TNT<BR>I'm learning so much I think my head is going to burst. Problem is the STAMINA. I get the game plan but can't carry it through. <BR>H is so laid back sometimes we need to check and see if he's breathing. Try to get some motivation from him?<BR>TNT you are starting to sound like me. That's something I might have said.<BR>cl<BR>Does your H really listen to you when you read? WOW<BR>FHL<BR>Lecture me lecture me. You are so calm, peaceful and together. Could you send some of that telepathically?

cl...I do a lot of communicating with my H as he uses the facilities (I stand my distance) or is in the shower. These are the only time is in one place. In bed if he is tired, it's so counterproductive to try to communicate anything. He's not very nice when he's tired. I think he has a sleeping disorder.<P>Many times I also follow H around, but I can not think and walk at same time, or so it seems...so hats off to you!<P>I need to really have H fill out the emotional needs. I would predict they would be #1 recreational companionship #2 domestic support #3 the family one #4 sex? Not sure. I am sure they wouldn't match with mine. Our personalities on the Meyer-Briggs profile were completely different except we are both intraverted. Gee I wish I could spell. <P>On the up side we compliment each other because there is not much overlap. We also share the same basic beliefs and values spiritually and politically. He even trusts me to research the issues and write down everything he should vote for. Personally I wouldn't let anyone do that.<P>cl...are your personalities different, too?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

WS...yes I am calm, peaceful and together (at least mentally) in real life, everyone says that, but it comes at a price.<P>I'm flexible and go with the flow, but I am also unfocused and sometimes undisaplined. I procastinate and have a hard time organizing or even making lists to get organized.<P>I am peaceful, but sometimes I am so good at avoiding conflict, I spin things in my own mind to look at the bright side so as not to deal with issues that may really need dealing with. The exception is when someone crosses my values.<P>I have a clear mind and can clarify problems and am often brought in personally and professionally to do just that, but my own schedule is out of control. I have a terrible time with anything mechanical. I have to repeat righty tighty lefty loosy to remember what way to turn things. My favorite part of my new mini van is that the gas cap is attatched so I no longer lose it. <P>I am great in a crisis, but don't deal well with everyday chaos...I'm like a deer stuck in the headlights.<P>So really, WS...I don't think you really want to be like me...just fine tune yourself a bit.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Thanks<BR><p>[This message has been edited by wasstubborn (edited September 20, 1999).]

I guess it would be too painful for my husband to admit that his family was dysfunctional before I married him. He knew how to live in that mode and was comfortable with it. I know he has grown, seen life from a different perspective, so to speak, and didn't live around them for many years. They recognize something different in my husband, and seem jealous over it. My husband has goals, higher expectations and some sort of a value system that does not match his family's. So, he really does not "fit in" the family mold as well as everybody else does..... White sheep of the family? <P>And maybe this is painful, that he only gets the pats on the back from his family when he has trouble with me. I know they aren't that smart to figure out that they are employing "behavior modification" techniques here, but that is exactly what they are doing! And maybe for my husband it is much easier to blame me for all his woes, than to really take a look at life. <P>I think my husbands emotional needs are (and I can't figure out what order they would fall into but here's a try...) Sex, domestic support, recreational companionship, and financial support.<P>I wonder how "if you can't beat 'em join 'em" game plan would go over with this piece of work husband!!!!<P>nah, I'd rather be single!

You are right that your H doesn't want introspection, right now.<P>From everything your H alledgedly has done outside and inside the marriage, if he still has higher morals and values than his family says a lot.<P>It doesn't help you when they are trying to drag him down. When he compares himself to them, it may make him feel good. When he looks at your higher standards, that makes him feel bad. So he may be drawn to his family to feel good or superior, but at the same time have some contempt or need distance from them...yet although he may want to be living the standards you have, he knows he is not so he is doing his best to invalidate them to insulate himself.<P>How about that for pycho babble?<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

Perfect.<P>I'm going to prepare about 30 sheets of paper and print this thread off.... VERY INSIGHTFUL!<P>Okay, so now what? Tranquilizers? Prozac? Zoloft? Vacation? A Bullet?<P>

Don't even joke about that, Trustntruth.<P>What's next? Maybe meds would be good, I never tried them since H thinks I'm already on drugs because I drink coffee.<P>My humble opinion is that you need to know what you want and what you need, not out of fear, but out of stength and love. Then I think you really need to know what it going on with your H...is there OW or are there other problems, or is it all pressures with his daughters and personal issues?<P>If you don't really know what you are dealing with, it is hard to even know how to chart your own course, let alone help him.<P>------------------<BR>Faith, Hope, Love Remain,<BR>but the greatest of these is Love.<BR>1 Corinthians 13:13

hello ladies, real quick...<BR>the trick is to make the spouse a captive audience. Up on the ladder was good. The shower is good too! I use that one a lot. Perhaps the toilet area? I also read to him in the car frequently-when he doesnot want to listen, he asks me to drive. <BR>I still am just so surprised at his answers-I assumed differently. Yes, he is very different from me, but that is okay.<BR>What I have been mulling on all morning is how he could choose honesty as his first emotional need?! We will discuss it tonight. And conversation? That is way down on my list, but I believe that is because he is gone so much.<BR>Need to work today! cl