For those of you who don't know my whole situation, in a nutshell, EA started in Mar. of 03, Dday was May 30 03,and EA/PA continued until late Oct. of 03, with 4 break ups between WH and OW. During the whole ordeal, I was pregnant with our 2nd, and I implemented Plan A in Aug. and continue today. OW is very young and really messed up. For some reason, she and WH found each other at work, and one thing lead to another.

Now, to the point of this thread. Since the birth of my son (OCT 25, 03) WH and I have been communicating very well. In a sense, I feel as though I've become the OW, because WH now talks to me about he and OW's R, like he used to discuss our M w/OW at the very beginning.

The A is done. EA/PA is over, but unfortunately there is no NC, because they do see each other briefly at work. The last two weeks has been amazing. WH has begun to talk to me about the A. He's giving me little details here and there, without me asking. He'll sometimes say, "you may not want to hear this, but...", or "I know this may bother you, but...", and I just listen, w/out getting emotional or LBing. Sometimes it is so hard, because he's coming clean about a lot of lies he had fed me throughout the months. I now know the PA started earlier than first thought. I now know the kinds of things OW did and said to WH that were so mean. (Twice, he broke up with her, only for her to come back to him and say, "I think I may be pregnant..." She's just full of mind games, and my WH is really beginning to see that. He told me that someday, he would tell me everything about the A, but not everything at once, because he knows what he did was wrong, and reliving it thru conversation, only reminds him of that. He tells me now, that he really knows that I love him, that is one thing he will never doubt.

I went back to work this last week, and WH kept our two youngest children for two days. During those two days, he said to me that he felt he was coming out of a coma. He said that the past was flooding back to him, of how things used to be between us. He described his new feelings as an "awakening." He was thrilled to care for our children those two days, like he used to, and told me that he has missed so much over the past year.

We've decided to take things slowly, and to date again. He says that I should have left him a long time ago, and that I deserve way better than him. But he also thanks me, almost daily, for seeing him through this.

BTW, some little things I've noticed in the last week... He'll go out in public with me, now. When I drop him off at work, he kisses me goodbye. That's something he hasn't done since dday. He knew that I got my hair done, and is more complimenary of me. He even noticed that I plucked my eyebrows!!! LOL Something I do regularly, but he would never comment on.

To those of you who have come out of the fog, or those vets that are more knowlegable than I am, is it possible that my WH is on his way out? I so don't want to get my hopes up, only to be hurt once again.

Thanks for your thoughts.
MOP

Hi MOP!

I am so pleased to hear from you! Hope the new baby is a joy as well as a cause of sleepless nights... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I have a few questions after reading your current situation:

1. How do you KNOW the A is over?

2. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> WH now talks to me about he and OW's R </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In what sense? ie. why he entered into this R? Or why it didn't work for him? Or simply details that he thinks you should know?

3. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He's giving me little details here and there, without me asking. He'll sometimes say, "you may not want to hear this, but...", or "I know this may bother you, but...", and I just listen, w/out getting emotional or LBing.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you mean that you are NOT asking for details? If no, why not? Because you don't want to hear them or because you don't feel you can ask him for them?

4. If I've read the above correctly, my biggest concern is that he is more concerned with getting his story out to you than he is about how you will receive it. In other words, he is still focussed on himself, not you.

Has he expressed remorse to you???

In the meantime, based on our previous conversations, I would like to see you extend a forcefield of protection around yourself for the foreseeable future! What you've described is an improvement over his past actions but you were really put through the wringer...that's why I think it would be only prudent to be VERY cautious for some time...don't let this get you down...just remember that he needs to work hard on himself, and this will take a lot of time...awed

awed,
Thanks for the response. Actually baby is a joy and sleeps most nights on an average of 6 hours!

I guess I say the A is over, because after I had my son, in late Oct., I came home to stay. We lived as a family for 6 weeks. During this time, WH was at home every night, going thru w/d. He was leaving work early (and coming home), to avoid seeing OW. He knows that it is more difficult to get over her if she is still around. Two weeks prior to Christmas, he and I chatted and decided that he still needed to work on himself, as previously discussed w/his therapist. I took the kids back to his MIL's because our only other option was for him to move in with a single buddy of his, who is nothing but trouble, we both agreed. He said that if we were to just jump back into the M, with him still not over the OW, our M would not survive.

So, here we are again, living separately, but we have decided that he will continue IC, I will start as well, and we will date each other again. There are times that we spend days and nights together, and there are NO phone calls, NO sudden trips to the store, etc... Besides, OW's ex lives near my MIL and I often see her car at his place, both at night and early in the am. Just like every time WH and she split up, she tries to work things out with her ex. (She's a needy, pathetic, little thing, who likes to have all the guys attention...) I know, that doesn't really mean anything, since she's already shown by messing around with a MM, regardless of his pg W's feelings... that she has no morals, no integrity, no heart... And H's whereabouts are accounted for.

As far as the details of their R. He opens up the conversation, and I will ask, until he says that's enough. In the past, I'd ask before he'd offer, and he'd get defensive. We talk about everything, really. How it started (although, through IC, he's still trying to determine WHY), some of the details (and we try to keep a sense of humor about it), and why they didn't make it. He says he was blind, and is still not sure why and how it really got him, but it did and consumed him.

And yes, he has expressed remorse. He told me a few nights ago that I deserved way better, thanked me for hanging in there, and that he would make it up to me. He told me that he would SHOW me how important our M was to him. He said that he wanted to be my H again, and for me to be his W, for as long as we live. We have a picture of his Grandparents on our entertainment center. One side is of them 56 years ago, when they were engaged. The other side is of them at their 50th Anniver. He said he put it there as a reminder that that could be us in 45 yrs.

Through this awakening, he said he's realizing that people tried to tell him what OW was like, but he cast that aside, and made her out to be someone else. Now that her actions are speaking louder than her words, and there are definate patterns to her immature behavior, he's starting to see her for who she really is, and is starting to dislike her.

I'm not holding my breath, by any means, awed. But, I do see some improvement. Like I said, I just went back to work, and that helps me a little, just focus more on myself. (Also, I work at a Police Dept., and I think H is a little threatened by that.) We both know that we have a long road ahead, but at least he's talking about us working things out. Before, he'd talk like he wasn't even sure he wanted to remain M, even if he didn't work things out with OW.

So, what do you think?

MOP

yowsa! 6 hours!!! You be one lucky mom... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thanks for providing all the additional details...that clarifies things. The upshot is that you are living separately again but you feel he is meeting the conditions...accounting for time, etc...

I hope others will jump in here, people who've had first-hand experience with a WS who comes and goes...they may be able to give you some solid insight.

But in the meantime...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Through this awakening, he said he's realizing that people tried to tell him what OW was like, but he cast that aside, and made her out to be someone else. Now that her actions are speaking louder than her words, and there are definate patterns to her immature behavior, he's starting to see her for who she really is, and is starting to dislike her. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This seems to be a fairly common reaction when the WS starts coming out of the fog (it was in my H's case too). So I suspect the answer to your question is that the fog is truly lifting!

But it is very reassuring to hear he is keeping on with the IC, and that you have protection by "dating" and living separately. Keep the humour, keep on believing his actions not his words, keep the focus on you.

(Good thing you are not holding your breath or you'd pass out! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

It does seem positive to me MOP...more importantly, it seems positive to YOU!

One suggestion would be to ensure you have your boundaries clearly set for when you decide to live together again. I read this warning again today: the biggest mistake a BS can make is NOT to have solid conditions in place for the recovery before the WS moves back home. In your case, it will be moving back together but the same principle applies.

You've worked hard on your relationship with him, and taking responsibility for your actions. Now you can extend that positive, loving, calm approach to establishing boundaries too.

Wow...I can't tell you how pleased I am...I love to hear someone sounding as strong as you are. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" /> It bodes well...awed

I think your H is on his way out of the fog as well. From what you've written on this thread, it is VERY promising.

You are in an extremely powerful position right now, and I hope that you use it wisely. As awed said, it is vitally important that you establish your boundaries now, so that your H is well aware of what you expect from him, should he move back home (which is sounding pretty certain).

I made the mistake of allowing my H back home too soon. I was so anxious to be "in recovery", that I never laid out the groundwork ahead of time... nor did I give him time to prove himself to me, with his actions. Instead, I believed all of the words, and it landed me into a false recovery, that took 1 1/2 YEARS to discover.

I am big on writing things out, and so my suggestion would be for you to actually write out your boundaries for your M, and the conditions that you expect upon him re-entering into the M full time, and what he must continue to do for you and the family (part of that are for him to meet your EN's).

Speaking of EN's.... is he aware of MB? Has he filled out the questionnaires with you? There are some EXCELLENT tools available on site for you to use. I highly recommend you try those, if you haven't already.

Karen

p.s. Congratulations on the newest arrival to your family. October 25th was also the birthdate of my oldest son (in 1996). It is now "official chocolate cake day", b/c I like to continue celebrating his life (he passed away 3 yrs ago).

awed- We've agreed to take things slow. We realize that I could very easily move back in, and while he's still raw from the A, our old habits would just resurface, and recovery could be jeopardized. He knows we need MC, but needs to work on his own personal issues, before we address the M. I told him that I knew I needed to improve things about myself too. BTW, he's without a car right now, so it is pretty easy to keep tabs on him!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> AND, I have caller ID, so I know where he's calling from, AND he does not have a cell phone!!!

Topie-I too, am anxious for recovery, but will heed your advice and take the time to do it right. It's been 9 mos since this whole mess started, and I found out that the A wouldn't end overnight, nor would I be able to fix him, etc... It's such a long process, but hopefully with a positive end result.

H does know I visit this site, and I've shared a little of the principles with him. He found the site on our favorites list one night and tried to find my screen name. I'm glad he didn't though, because he was still pretty thick in the fog at that point, and probably wouldn't have liked some of my past threads. Not that they were bad, just not very flattering on his part, as a WS. DUH! Probably would have felt betrayed and viewed it as a LB. I view it as therapy!!!

Anyway, I have printed out the questionnaires, and am feeling like he is becoming more receptive now. I also asked him about a week ago that if I were to purchase some books (SAA, HNHNs, Torn Asunder, etc...), would he read them. At first he was a little hesitant, but then I told him that they may offer him a little insight and give him some relief that he's not alone in this. He told me he would. So, I'll be ordering some books. I probably should have read them already myself.

Thank you both for your words of encouragement. I truly hope he's for real. I know my H well, and knew he wasn't himself during the A, but I do feel like he's coming around. I tell you one thing, I'm hurting less and less each day, don't know if it's detachment, or my faith in his progress. I know longer ache when I see him, it's almost becoming exciting again...

BTW, Topie, sorry to hear about the loss of your sweet angel. I will certainly say a prayer for him on each and every Chocolate Cake Day!!! (((hugs)))

MOP