how many wh returned home and how long ws have to wait and suffer.

It is the second time I have gone into plan B and this time it has been easier. I could not do a Plan A as I had thrown my wh out after I found this site, so went straight into plan B after 8 weeks wh started making noises about returning when I said he needed to leave ow and live on his own to find out what he really wanted he decided that I was better off without him and he was better off with the ow he stated I desrved better ( which we all know is true) I just don't have faith in this Plan B at the moment and feel it is driving him closer to the OW. He is now looking for a new place to live as the place he is in now is damp riddled and they need to find somewhere to live.

I thought about compiling a newsletter letting wh know about his childrens activities maybe this would jolt him out of his 'fog' hearing about his children and not being part of it (obviously not telling him anything about my life just the childrens). What do people think?

I guess I am having a bad day today and feeling sad that he has chosen to be somewhere else. It has now been 3 months since he left he has no plans of divorce etc and he says he loves both of us but choses to stay with her. I feel I should just give up and get on with my life without him.

me (37)
WH (37)
Together neraly 20 years
married 10 years
2 children
DD 13th Oct 03
WH known OW 3 weeks
Moved in with her 1st Nov 03
Plan B 13th Oct
Broke Plan B 16th Dec 03
Back to Plan B 7th Jan 04

I should have added that I am taking this time to look after myself. I have lost weight and look and feel better than I have done in years. I have been out and bought new clothes and had a new hair cut all of which WH has seen and gives the impression he approves. I may appear negative here on this site but make damn sure that I am positive when he is about. He has no idea that I sit in night after night when the children have gone to bed or that I go to bed early just tog et through the night. I make sure that he has the impression I am getting on with my life and although I do get to go out occasionally it is difficult with young children. That is why this site is a god send it puts you in touch with real people who know and understand what I am going through.

Hi feelingit,

I didn't notice this before but your story and mine are so similar.Since I have been reading this site it seems to me that more women "come to their senses" than wayward men so in that respect I am not hopeful for my WH although I could be wrong about that fact.Plan B may drive the WS to the OW/OM,that is a possiblity as are many other's that WS may do.Who knows what they will actually do given that they began with having an A.

Remember that Plan B is for YOU.Whether or not our WS come back is entirely up to them.If they don't then you have been well on your way to living without them and their selfish, misguided sense of selves.It is not the Plan B that is hard to deal with,I think, as much as having to deal with the real possibility that they(WS) may never realize what they are about to lose
and don't come back or head to divorce.

Any which way you look at it,it is hard.I can't tell you what to do but IMHO you are still early in the game here so perhaps you just need to let this day pass and you might feel differently tomorrow about things.My WH has decided not to work on our marriage too and also has told me that he absolutely does not want a divorce(last I heard anyway).

Personally, I am not ready to make any decision regarding D and I may end up waiting this out until he actualy makes SOME kind oif decision.My MIL says don't give WH the satisfaction of a D.That would be just what he wants,his W to say I want a D so that let's him off the hook,so to speak,of making any decision.And right now,I am comfortable doing the waiting,as much as I can be anyway.Hopefully,my WH A will crumble and there may be hope for us and my daughters.Do I really want him back? I don't honestly know right now.I am disgusted at what WH has done and CONTINUES to do but I can't honestly say I am ready for D.Until that time then,I have to wait.

One thing that always had comforted me was knowing that I am retaining my dignity and integrity throughout this whole ordeal,something my WH has lost a long time ago,and I am showing my DD's a strong mother.They do not know that it is Infidelity that we are dealing with but they certainly know that daddy has made and is making bad decisions that are hurting mommy and the family(s).I sometimes don't know how my WH can live with himself still doing what he's doing.I would not want to be in his lying,cheating,hurtful shoes at all.

O

Hi Octobergirl

Yes I must be having a bad day I think. I sometimes have waves of emotion and fear that WH will not come out of his fog but then I think of all the things he has said and done that put me back to reality. I am in the same pposition if wh came by right now and said he had made a mistake etc etc would I take him back, i don't know the answer part of me wouldn't. I too am not pursuing Div.
As I said before I am definately using this time for me and finding out what my likes/dislikes are and making small changes here and there for me. I quite like my own company and being able to do what I want and watch what I want.

feelingit...

the nitty gritty of plan b...is that it is supposed to follow the best plan A you can muster and stomache...

and it takes strength...BUT...it is the basis of plan b....

your post is very ambivalant...understandably so...so it may time to dig very deep and decide if you can muster the strength to do this...and do it as is advises here....

mimi would tell you to go for it...

Can you imagine a time line that you can live with in which you will try your hardest to plan a...
2 months...and in those two months create and act the spouse you envision being....
and see where it gets you...

for plan b to have effect they have to really feel what they are missing...if you haven't given them much to miss...then it is way easy to wallow in the muck and guilt...and cling to the OW who surely will not hold him accountable for anything...

can create a home envrinoment that is way more appealing and welcoming than the current damp must place he is now...with the added bonus of just when he is feeling good about being there...you get to scoot him out the door... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

thanks for spending the evening with us dear...time for you to go...(batt eyes...) smile and escort him to the door...Looking fabulous...

can you have him meet you and the kids at some activity in out there...and several hours in it..thank him for attending with you all but inform him you all have to get going...
we are all going over to so and so house for a fun evening...see you later.... minivan drives off into the sunset...to a lovely get together...he gets damp smelly apartment...

can you do it...
can you......

and you can have some control...invite him over to be with kids...you look fabolous again..and scoot your wonderful perfumed self out the door...ohhh goodness look at the time...gotta run..
can you make every interaction pleasant and leave him wanting another peek...wanting to linger a little longer...that feeling of being home....
and then sending him away...

and if you think you can do this..and then move to plan b...where he feels cut off at the knees ...
has really seen where his actions have gotten him...perhaps you will feel better...

have you followed mimi's post...
ARK

Thanks ark for your comments.

I have wondered about the Plan a but I thought as he is living with OW that it is advised to go straight to plan B.

I must admit that after 2 months of wh being gone and I did not have contact with him at all apart from the children and then I started to 'be nice' this is when wh started making noises of returning but once he found out that I still had feelings for him and that there could be a chance for him to return this is when he decided to sit back on the fence and when I went back to Plan B.

I could do a Plan A I think I have the mental energy to do it but I feel at this time do I want to, do I want my WH back and be put through this pain again. There would be lots of opportunity to do all of what you suggest as WH seems to be at my beck and call when I do need him. By the way I work nights so have arranged that WH looks after the children at our nice warm cosy house and not his.

On a very negative note I wonder whether cutting my loses and starting a fresh with someone else would be the answer. It was not me who strayed and I feel I do not have issues with myself (baggage to take with me) although I do know that us BS need to take some blame ie of not meeting en of our WS and this is what we learn and not do in the future.

LOL Feelin, I do not believe it! My H was in a damp home with his OW for the first three months of their R also...crikey, our sitchs are uncanny

......then I started to 'be nice' this is when wh started making noises of returning but once he found out that I still had feelings for him and that there could be a chance for him to return this is when he decided to sit back on the fence and when I went back to Plan B.

Exactly what happened in my sitch. As soon as I began PlanA, being nice to H, he made noises he wanted to return also. I recieved two phone calls in which he asked to come home! Soon as he got the assurances he could come home, I still loved him, that I would reconcile, he distanced again.... he continued to *fencesit*.

Feelin, my advice is, is that if you do decide to do a PlanA, give it your best shot, but keep it short - say two months or so! Please DON'T PlanA for as long as I did, (several months)....this was my fatal mistake. I should have began PlanB when all of this wavering between I and OW was going on, but I continued in PlanA hoping he would come back......didn't work out that way.

I enabled him with my very long PlanA, to have the best of both worlds and for him to linger on and remain in his affair with OW.

When I did finally go to PlanB, it seemed he had already made his choice - the OW.

Hi Lianne

Yes it is amazing how our stitches are so familiar. Maybe that is why I should just carry on with Plan B as your Plan a didn't work and just ended up with you having more pain. That is also why I wonder why I should bother if its not going to work anyway.

I suppose if I do give it one last shot I know that I have done everything I can to save our marriage and I can then walk away with a clear head. I will give it a couple of months to be honest it won't be that difficult to do a good plan A as I am naturally a good person (a bit big headed of me I know) and see the good in most people even if they have been bad. I won't LB and I won't ask about the future I shall just be nice and look attractive and then ask him to leave when he has had a good taster. If he does start making noises I shall not give in so readily and make him sweat a bit until I am sure he really means it.

I am half way there already as I said he has to look after the children overnight at the family home, sleep in our bed etc so surely this must cause problems alround for him and the OW.

Lianne do you think this is a good idea or do you think I am wasting my time. It is all so confusing sometimes.

How are things with you now are you moving on or still hoping.

OK, well my PlanA seemed to work in that it did bring H and I closer again, hence his wavering between I and OW...he was appearing to be very confused! However, he still may have began wavering between I and OW even if I hadn't been in PlanA and gone immediately to PlanB - I just don't know. Only difference is, is that if I'd have gone straight to PlanB, he wouldn't have been recieving the assurances I was giving him constantly in PlanA, because In PlanB they get NC, no reassurances, etc, etc.
PlanA is all about trying to fill WS's needs, trying to make WS realise what a huge mistake he is making, trying to end his affair.....and I tried, tried really hard......but I hung on in PlanA too long, wayyyyy too long!

Looking back, I feel I went wrong in giving him far too many assurances throughout his wavering. If I hadn't have, then I may have been telling a different story today. My constant assurances that I still loved him, that he could come home, that I was here awaiting him, is what kept him sitting on the fence and in no hurry to come back home. My assurances enabled him to no more than remain with the OW, in the knowledge that he could *fall back* on me if all failed with OW. And so during all of the time he spent away, I now feel that in giving him assurances constantly, I was no more than allowing their affair to linger on, enabling their affair to grow and to flourish, enabling them to form a much deeper bond and attachment....and this is what appears to have happened, the wavering finally stopped in October 03!

If I could do this all over again, I wouldn't give the assurances that I did. MY FATAL MISTAKE!

As I said and if I were you, I'd do a short PlanA (two months), but I wouldn't give constant assurances. Telling them ONCE that we still love them, that we would be willing to reconcile is ENOUGH! A WS who will keep seeking assurances and who gets them, will remain a *fencesitter* and while we LBS's allow them to fencesit, it's all spent time in which the WS is remaining with OW and time in which there is a chance that WS and OW'S R will turn into something much deeper and meaningful......as is what appeared to have happened in my case. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Feelin, I've given up hope of having him return and am moving on with my life, I have little choice. He's been gone 10 months and I feel that if he'd any love for me whatsoever, he'd have been home long ago.

As you know I NEVER initiate any contact with him and I havn't done for months. We see each other now, or have been lately, around once a week when he will collect our daughter. I can't avoid contact with him because he will ask for me all of the time to pass on messages/or child support. I still always look my best when he's around and remain polite and friendly with him, although I tend to keep conversation restricted to our daughter. Long gone are the days when he call on the phone for long, lingering conversations.

I guess he's noticing however how good I am looking these days, for when he'd called to collect our daughter last Sunday, I was on my way out. He'd asked our daughter, "Where is your mum going"? Our daughter had told him that I was going to the shop and he'd replied...

"What?? She is all dressed up like that and only going to the shop"? LOL!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Kids and their big mouths huh? Still for all he knows, the shop may not have been where I was really going!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

My being dressed up and going out somewhere, got him thinking anyway that is for sure. He wouldn't have quizzed our daughter otherwise. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 07:51 AM: Message edited by: Lianne37 ]</small>

I feel the more you see WS the harder it is to do Plan A because you know OP is still in the picture. Plan B is easier because you are not in contact with WS everyday so what you don't know won't hurt you much.

Hope you find your peace.

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 08:26 AM: Message edited by: marcus04 ]</small>

Hi feelingit,

ark gave you a great description of plan A, including...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> for plan b to have effect they have to really feel what they are missing </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You haven't done a Plan A, let alone a good Plan A which certainly makes it hard to see how effective Plan B will be. It is in part why you are thinking that you need to contact him while in Plan B, to remind him of home, etc. If you've done a good Plan A, that all becomes moot.

And by the way, Plan B is for you...it has nothing to do with whether or not he is living with OW. This is a common misconception -- people think Plan B is solely about the living arrangements. That's why they speak of being in Plan B and yet are still in contact with WH or say they are in Plan B because WH moved out.

The point is that you can still work towards M reconciliation even if WH is no longer living with you. The classic is the story about CarolK (Carol HK?)...if you want the link, I can likely find it or someone else may jump in with it.

She's a terrific example for any BS who is determined to save their M because she demonstrated HOW to do it from a distance and HOW it can work. (It is really important that you understand it is NOT about giving reassurances to your H...that is NOT what works at all!)

But...you seem to be feeling pretty ambivalent?

With that in mind, I hunted up a good quote from redhat...I think he nicely sums up what you need to consider...he wrote this to another BS who was musing about whether or not she WANTED to save her M...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Everyone has that doubt and this is a life time decision. You have to see if you want to work on M if WH is totally repentant and willing to make ammends to you in the right way. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Note: he later wrote back to clarify that he means you need to think about this now...on your own. Make YOUR decision, regardless of what your WH is doing right now. IF your WH came to you totally repentant and willing to make amends -- would you want to work on the M?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If the answer is no way ... then don't even bother doing plan B, just NC then let it Dv. If the answer I don't know or I might ... then you owe it to yourself to try this again, to earn your way out of this M. By then you could move on w/ or w/o your WH.

Remember in-love could be recreated with 4 gifts of love. Both party should be willing to do it and both party should let the other one fill in ENs. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Best of luck no matter what your decision is...awed

P.S. I think you may be underestimating what is involved...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I will give it a couple of months to be honest it won't be that difficult to do a good plan A as I am naturally a good person </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">...as JL and others are fond of saying, this course is not for wimps! It is a lot tougher than it appears to be on the surface which is one of the reasons I keep posting here to folks, trying to give them encouragement and support...it is extremely tough to do a truly good Plan A...

Thanks everyone for your comments.

Last wh brother came to see me to say he had gone round wh and ow house and has met her. Brother said that he wanted to find out what the attraction was etc and was surprised as he would choose me every time. Ow is immature and has no personality apparantly but I know this is what everyone has heard before and it doesn't make any difference to how ws feels. If I had a reason as to why wh has gone it would be easier to accept but I did nothing wrong and I am a great person so wh says and that it is him and he is looking for something but does not know what and I deserve to be happy and he cannot do that.

I guess family members feel they are doing the right thing but it does drags up all the feelings again and you get confused again.

Yesturday after reading posts I had made my mind up to do PLan A (I do realise it is hard) and I know I appear to be not taking it seriously or realise how hard it would be but I DO and I know I shall have a rough ride. I can be nice without LB and then when wh has gone then my feelings will come out but not in front of him.

I just can't wait for the day when I feel better. I am on AD's and these have helped alot but I really wish I could think about something else for once.

You know I am sitting here bawling my eyes out. I just cannot take this pain much more and the feelings of utter betrayal. Why should I put myself through this pain again by even thinking of trying to get my wh back. He has been a serial cheater (5 times) and each time I say to myself I will not let this man put me through this again and I have allowed him to but this time I cannot. It is the longest we have been apart and I can take this opportunity to get my head together and move on. I do not want to be in this position again.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Brother said that he wanted to find out what the attraction was etc and was surprised as he would choose me every time. Ow is immature and has no personality apparantly... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The OW's *newness* is what is her appeal and is what attracts the WS to her. This is the only advantage that OW has over us Feelin, she is a *new toy*!!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Yesturday after reading posts I had made my mind up to do PLan A (I do realise it is hard) and I know I appear to be not taking it seriously or realise how hard it would be but I DO and I know I shall have a rough ride </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Believe me Feelin, it is NOT EASY to PlanA when your WS walked out on you to be with an OW and while he remains off playing house with an OW......it is HARD, very HARD! Emotions are still raw in the early days and it's hard to keep them under control - however this is something that you must try and do at all costs because any LB'ing will only serve to push him away, cause him to distance again. LB'ing gives him more reason to run off back to his OW to seek out her comfort and for her to soothe him. Everytime you LB, it's ONE POINT to OW, NIL POINTS to the LBS.

It is also HARD to PlanA and practically IMPOSSIBLE to try and meet the WS's needs, when you both no longer are living in the same household and when someone else (the OW), is now filling the majority of WS's needs for him and appearing to fill his needs quite successfully.

However, you appear to still have a regular contact with your H, in that he still comes to your home and looks after your children in your home.....so there is ample opportunity for you here to try and meet H's needs, etc...

In my case, I had no opportunity to meet any needs because I would see him for five minutes at a time per week and when I would go and take our daughter to see him in my car. How could I meet his needs while I was sitting in a car?? IMPOSSIBLE! So my version of PlanA was to always look good when I saw H, I remained his friend, was always friendly, polite and cordial with him. I would call him occasionally on the phone and ask if he would do something for me - my H likes to be *needed* and so I was trying fill his need to be *needed*.

Despite having almost zilch opportunity to do a brilliant PlanA, what I did do brought results! He began wavering, became confused.....the *I want to come home* telephone calls began arriving. We would have long, lingering phone calls....calls in which I was probably filling his needs also. He hadn't looked near my home since he'd left for the first three months, then he started calling to collect our daughter at my home. I highly doubt he would have looked near my home again, if I'd LB'd.

And so imagine what results you could yield from having an even better opportunity to PlanA than I did! I dare say that if only H had given me more of his time in which I could've PlanA'd my a$$ off, if only we'd had more contact - I could've easily brought him home again.

Give it your best shot anyway Feelin, see how it goes!

<small>[ January 22, 2004, 04:14 AM: Message edited by: Lianne37 ]</small>