OK, where to begin...


The beginning: My wife and I met almost 5 years ago. She already had our daughter from her highschool sweetheart who got her pregnant and ran out on her. She and I met and dated for a few months, I moved in, proposed, she got pregnant, we got married, We had a son together. Fast forward 2 years. We've separated a few times over tension in the marriage, (basically I wasn't man enough to face our problems and would walk out) We both had an affair when we separated the very first time, both with people who were our Ex'es. She told me about her affair with her Ex and I didn't tell her about mine when we reconciled.

Now fast forward a couple more years, add another son to the equation, we've been going through a cycle in our relationship of: things are fine, things get worse, distance forms between us, have a big fight, separate, make up, and do it all over again. This summer going into fall, the distance between us had never been greater. Sexual relations and intimacy overall had dwindled to nothing. I began to have an affair with a coworker. I separated from my wife in the begining of November and told her I wanted a divorce. When I told her this, I told her that I would be willing to go to marriage counselling if she wanted to try to save things (this was only because I knew it would look bad during divorce proceedings if I refused). So I went and made one mistake.... I actually took part in the homework the counsellor would assign me. As I began to do what he told me I began to see more and more what I had done and what I was throwing away. I began to realize that my unhappiness in the marriage was largely a result of me holding onto immatur behaviors and behaviors resulting from incidents in my child hood. One of the things my wife had said in counselling was that things needed to change if we were to make it. So I decided to do what I never had done: Be entirely honest with her and myself as far as my issue in the marriage were concerned. So I decided to tell her about the 1st affair as well as the second one which I had ended in the begining of december.

In the begining of counselling I told my wife that she needed to be ready that when we finished going to counselling she may not want to be my wife anymore and I still mmay not want to be her husband. When I told her this I think I had subconciously decided to tell her the truth about the affairs and such. Now her reaction when I told her the truth was one of shock and rage and confirmation. All she could say for 5 minutes or so was, I KNEW IT!! I KNEW IT!!... Then she needled me with questions left and right and then threw me out... We made it to 2 more marriage counselling sessions before the big blow up.

Last week she worked Saturday Night and was going to breakfast with her father as it was his birthday when she got off... She got home and I told her to sit down that we needed to talk. I told her that the kids spent half the previous night crying and begging me to stay home and not go back to work (I'm working is what the kids have been told). I told her that I was going to move my stuff back home until she made her mind up as to what she was going to do. I told her she needed to hurry up and **** or get off the pot as we were just hurting each other and more importantly the kids. Well, she took this as me giving her an ultimatium and told me she no longer loved me and wanted a divorce. Ok, I then baited her into beating the **** outta me. I never hit her or even raised my arms in defence. I left the house after taking my beating, went to the hospital and was checked out, went to my families house and slept the day away. The next day I went to the sheriffs department and made a statement and as a result she was arrested and charged with Domestic Violence.

Now: I picked up my boys and let my mother in law take our daughter. I sent the boys home the next day as I didn't have the heart to keep them form their sister or their mother. I've since recanted my statement that caused my wife to be arrested even though I told the truth in it. I did this because her EX would be able to use the charge and conviction against her to take away my daughter permanately. The moment he and his family found out, they were trying to get me to go talk to their attorney. I love my daughter and divorced or not, my wife would provide a better home than her father ever would. I recanted my statement as well because if convicted of domestic violence, my wife would never be able to secure her nurses liscnse in our state. So now here we are where I ask a question or two....

She has told me that she never wanted a divorce and that I need to give her space and time.... Trying my best to do this..... I understand she could just be playing me to get her charges dismissed or lowered and I'm ok with this. I trust her when she says she's not but I could not ault her if this is what she's doing....

She asked me to listen to that Sheryl Crow song : The first Cut is the deepest. She told me I would understand a little better of how she's feeling and what she wants...

This is a rough outline of whats going on right now... We've both backed off and are honoring the No-Contact agreement until her attorney gets it modified or rescinded. Right now I'm just confused and scared. I love my wife and I've done horribly wrong on my own part. I ackowledge that both of us have a stake in our problems. I guess I'm looking for advice on what to do to save my marriage outside of dealing with my personal issues that lead to our marital issues. I'm scared because Valentines is coming.... Her birthday and our daughters birthday is right after that.... I'm scared I've thrown away what matters most to me because I was to blind to see it... The two of us cannot speak for legal reasons, but on top of that she needs her "time and space" as she's put it... Friends tell me that when she says "time and space" she's telling me its over but she needs time and space to figure out how to end it.... I miss my family... I want them to be in my life every day, not every other weekend and Weds. nights.... I hope I'm not being to incoherent... Please read and respond. Ask questions and I'll answer them honestly. I want to save my marriage.

ohh yeah, I meant my username to be 2wise2soon... I heard someone say once that wisdom was the sum of our mistakes and experience in life...

2soon

1. Decide here and now that from this second forward in your life you move through it abhoring chaos...

that you take full responsibility from this moment on to get in control of you and what is in your control...which has nothing to do with the actions of anyone else...it is infact regardless of anyone elses actions....

2. the revelation and "coming clean" of things is only part of the package of revealing things to one another...you need to establish and put into place boundaries that create an environment in which it is safe to share.... that is part of radical honesty....
that being honest is no longer seen as a tool or weapon..
no more "honesty" until you two have the ground rules in place..which does not mean lie.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
it means that timing and environment is just a important....as coming clean...

3. ulitmatums never work, don't use them again...no matter the wording you speak for your actions and plans only...can't control anyone else....


I understand she could just be playing me to get her charges dismissed or lowered and I'm ok with this. I trust her when she says she's not but I could not fault her if this is what she's doing..


you can't have it both ways...the violent outbursts are unacceptable...
but if you baited and goaded her in to it...NOT to dismiss her own self is still accountable....for her actions...
but she is either dangerous or not...and you can't have it both ways...
are the children safe with her or not...
that should be driving decsion factor in all this mess you both have created..
if not get the children where they are safest..
if safest with her...do all you can in your power to make it so...

I began to have an affair with a coworker. I separated from my wife in the begining of November and told her I wanted a divorce

are you in 1000000% no contact with this current OW...and if you are serious about losing the chaos and doing what is best for the family go no contact totally now...today....

Friends tell me that when she says "time and space" she's telling me its over but she needs time and space to figure out how to end it...

quit talking to friends...find a one or two with whom you can vent and feel safe...and leave all others out of this...more people involved more chaos..more both will feel judged and pressured to please everyone else....

you focus on you...you accept that she will do what she does and you can not control or stop her actions...
so you focus on changing you....
you move slowly and steadily to becoming the type of father and husband you imagine being...
you look hard at past behaviors that contributed to the demise and change you...

you decide here and now what exactly marriage and commitment mean and engage only in activities that put those beliefs in actions..
no talking to exes...even if she does...you clamp your mouth...
no talking to co-worker OW...at all...

children are the casualities when adults act like this...use that to focus you and illicit change...


start reading all you can on this website...
ark

Ark,

Thanks for the reponse, in reply:

1. I am through with the self-serving behavior that brought me to this point. I do not want to go through the feelings I've felt or put someone esle thru it ever again. On this, I am going to my own personal counselor to identify behavior the I do not want in my life, identify the source of where it comes from, and identify the solution or come up with a plan of attack to help recondition myself towards healthier behavior.

2. Ground rules have been set for the time being by the courts. We have a no contact - temporary protection order in place as a result with her being charged with domestic violence. I'd like to hear more form others in regards to constructive ground rules to lay out as we begin to talk to one another about how we are going to move forward.

3. Understand about ultimatiums. I have a tendancy to set them without coming out and saying "This must happen or else"


4. I'm slightly passive aggressive and had tried thru december to just avoid the OW but finally called her a few weeks ago and told her that I'd made a mistake and that I felt it would be better if we did not speak or see one another again. She is no longer employed by my employer so that is not an issue. She did get upset when I told her it was over and made subtle threats as far as getting back at me but like you said, I can only control my own actions and behavior.

I have not and will not contact any Exes. She has to speak with her ex due to him being my daughters biological father and all and I'm cool with that.

And as far as what I feel a husband and father should be... I've been told that initially I should consider laying out what I need to say in a letter as it is easier to start communicating that way as opposed to trying to talk, that if we sit down to write what we need to say at 1st, it keeps emotions more in control and tends to be constructive as opposed to destructive. Here's a snippit of what I've been working on:

I would tell her this: "our children are the most important
thing in the world, and giving them a stable and functional family matters
most to me. Therefore, I want to work out what we need to, and be with
you. I want to be their father, and care for them and you. I want to love
you as you are, and I will be faithful to our relationship because I
respect you. I will help you become the person that you want to be, and
encourage you to feel beautiful and loved. How can I do this? What
particular things can I do to regain your trust and make you love me
again? Tell me if I don't show you respect, or if I do something you feel
is detrimental to our relationship -- talk to me about it. I will listen."

2soon

Giving my post a shameless bump.

I know I'm the WS here but I've come here for help in trying to save my marriage. I took time to go thru the articles posted here and I'm headed to Barnes and Noble when I leave the office to grab some of the resources I've seen listed in the articles.

What I'd like to ask right now is for some direct advice and opinions.

1st What sort of ground rules should be set once we can legally talk to one another again (there's a no contact-temporary protection order in place at the moment)?

2nd Maybe I'll find these answers in the resources I'll be getting but at what pace should I approach things with BS?

3rd Since I let BS know of the A with the OW I've been going through an emotional roller coaster of hell. I know that I know nothing of my BS feelings right now except for a vague idea of what she might be feeling. How do I communicate with her about her feelings and then how do I communicate about my feelings on what happened? (I know she probably does not want to hear it all right now)

I'm asking these things because I've come to the realization of what I want but don't know how to best approach the situation. I'm afraid that I will screw it up if left to my own devices... I'm looking for honest candid advice on how to constructively approach the situation so my wife and I can take our marriage from a state of chaos and send it into a recovery that will be beneficial to my wife and I and our children.

-2soon

wise2soon,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do I communicate with her about her feelings and then how do I communicate about my feelings on what happened? (I know she probably does not want to hear it all right now)</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You're completely correct that she probably doesn't want to hear it all right now - especially any of your desire to see the OW again, or what good you might have seen in that relationship. That kind of information is just plain painful and doesn't help the BS to heal.

Usually, though, BS become full of questions. When she does, answer her sincerely, and truthfully. Think your response through in your mind, and "listen" to it through her ears to see if it might sound hurtful. Try to phrase even painful truths with love, and your love will come through in your answers. Above all, NEVER lie to her!! In my experience, the worst part of trying to recover is not getting over the facts of the A, but the lies and deceit that tumbled in its wake. An A is an event, it eventually passes. But the lies... well, in her mind every time you lie it's just one more BIG reason she should NEVER trust you again. Be truthful, and gentle. And truthful!! Am I making my point? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

If she will read Surviving an Affair with you, do it!

But for now, just try to be patient, give her some time (not like you have a choice, anyway, under the circumstances), and take this "space" to work on you.

learn to communicate without disrepecting her...
learn to communicate without name calling and judgement statements...

pay very close attention to communication patterns that both of you have used in argueing and see what role you play in it and stop yourself....

learn that you don't have to be right or to win..

learn to speak in "I" sentences...
not in you did this and you did that and blah blah...but change it to I did __________because I felt ___________________


if ulitmatums are a common theme with you...think before you speak...to avoid such things again...


3rd Since I let BS know of the A with the OW I've been going through an emotional roller coaster of hell.

what are you saying here...are you talking about emotional turmoil in connection to the OW still being present...or are you talking about the pain you have caused...

not clear on which roller coaster you have tickets for... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

talk about your responsibility for mistakes in the past...
and what you need to change in you....

when do you expect the protection to be lifted...
and did any of the children witness the altercation.
and are you seeing the children at all right now...

ark

Ark, the turmoil I refer to is with myself coming to grips with what I've done. Both guilt and shame and just unbearable sorrow that I did that to my loved ones.


The protection order is in place till we go to pretrial or her attorney files a motion to have it lifted. I've already sent the statements he's asked for so he can file the papers

Yes, two of our children did witness her beating on me. One was my one year old son, the other was our five year old daughter. When the baby saw her hit me, (he walked in the kitchen and saw her hit me with a roundhouse) I was looking right at him.... His little face fell and he started screaming right away.

Only speaking with the kids on the phone at the moment... Its hard to keep from getting upset and crying when I talk with them though.... On a positive note... my daughter told me last night that mommy misses daddy to after she told me she missed me...

So that is where things are right now.

2soon