-nut-
thank you.
I'm sorry to hear that your wife is not ready to let go of the OM... it will hopefully be just a matter of time.
SMH

CSue-


Well you almost got it right. Your honesty in telling your H that you called and why is critically important.

What could you have done to make this better. Called your H BEFORE you called OM back so that you could apply POJA (Policy of Joint Agreement) to your decision. By this you would have taken your H's feelings into consideration. The way you handled it instead is just a continuation of the selfishness required to support an affair.

You've inflicted more pain on an already wounded husband. It sounds like you understand that he's going to need to recover further from this additional betrayal.

yes, I definitely should have called my H first. I was being selfish, and wanting my own way. I am certain that he would not have wanted me to call OM.
I never realized how selfish I was till all of this started. *sigh*

thank you for the support <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
SMH

Your x-boyfriends were NOT your BFs WHILE you were M'd 2 your H! Your R with your OM was based on lies and deceit. It was an illicit A, no more, no less. The OM will forever be a "threat" 2 your M, whereas your xBFs may not be, so long as you don't hide anything about them from your H.

thank you. I can understand that.


In very rare cases I'm aware of, all parties affected by an A have sat down and thrashed it all out, put all the cards on the table, and remained friends.

I guess somewhere inside I've hoped to be that rare case. I don't see it really happening, though. I think that OM's wife might be up for it - but I don't see my H going along with anything like that. In fact, I wouldn't even suggest it to him. I can already see the look on his face if I were to mention something like that. I'll just work with my H on us, and let THEM work on themselves.

SMH

AG-

You were asking in a previous response why it was not possible to be friends if both are committed to rebuilding. My answer was Respect - as in it being a matter of respect for your Ss, and for yourselves. I think it is very common for WS to want to go back to being friends, but truth be told, were you being a friend when you asked MM to begin lying, decieving not only his family, but himself and YOU? That is what your actions did ask him to do. That is not what the spirit of friendship is all about. Your friendship ended when you crossed the 'line'.
A relationship where you are asked to lie and deceive is not true loving one.

True... I've never thought of it in those terms. I guess that the lying and deceiving was such a part of my life by that time that I didn't even realize what a twisted relationship it was. Of course, I would probably tell my daughter that same thing if I found her in a relationship like that... it just always seems different when I'm talking to myself!
Thank you for clarifying what you had said earlier. I'm really glad that you did. It makes alot of sense!
They told me that this wouldn't be easy... but this is downright exhausting! Thanks for being here. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
SMH

Hi So much Hurt

Telling your H about the call was a good thing. As for being friends with the OM W, that to is impossible. NC is with both of them. They are no longer any concern for your. Reread your NC letter and apply it as if they sent it to you. If he is serious about redeeming his M then he should have sent you an NC letter. If you were the BS would you even consider being friends again with the OW? Somethings very wrong with their M or what with what he is saying.

Yes, you used each other, but his lack of respect for your NC letter speaks a lot for him. It shows that he really doesn't care for you, only himself.

You do show a loving and caring heart. That is to your credit, but it can also be your worst stumbling block. Look at you H, and know how much he Loves you, that despite the indescribleable pain he is feeling he still chooses to Love.

I do think that you do Love your H. I do know your H loves you. I can tell you he is worried, concerned, afraid, in pain, and angry. That is something to think about.

Of cousre Hind sight is 20/20. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Time to put in some extra effort on meeting your H's EN's.

Time, Patience and Love. (I think I type this to remind myself as well. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> )

dumb newbie question:

NC is not in the list of abbreviations. What is an NC or an NC letter?

Thanks,
Dying_in_Dallas

NC is "no contact"

there are NO dumb newbie questiona! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Silverthorn-

As for being friends with the OM W, that to is impossible. NC is with both of them. They are no longer any concern for your.

I've never thought of the NC as referring to her... but I guess that it only makes sense. She hasn't done anything wrong, though... I feel so badly about ruining our friendship in this process. It's difficult to think about telling her "no" if she were to try to repair our friendship.

If he is serious about redeeming his M then he should have sent you an NC letter. If you were the BS would you even consider being friends again with the OW? Somethings very wrong with their M or what with what he is saying.

yes, there are many things wrong with their marriage. He (obviously by his contacting me) doesn't quite comprehend the need for NC. He has, however, agreed to it because I asked for it. I don't know if I would consider being friends with the OMW if I were the BS... but with going through this, I think that I might have more of a heart to forgive and be her friend if I felt and saw signs that she were sincere.

Yes, you used each other, but his lack of respect for your NC letter speaks a lot for him. It shows that he really doesn't care for you, only himself.

true... I suppose that WAS disrespectful.


You do show a loving and caring heart. That is to your credit, but it can also be your worst stumbling block. Look at you H, and know how much he Loves you, that despite the indescribleable pain he is feeling he still chooses to Love.

thank you, and yes... my "sensitivity" can be a major stumbling block for me. It has gotten me into trouble in the past... and it appears to have gotten me into more trouble today. *sigh*
I do need to look more at my H's love for me... I wanted him to show it to me in ways that I could comprehend for so long... and now he is showing it to me in the midst of all of this. It's really difficult for me to comprehend sometimes. Maybe that's part of why I can't seem to accept it fully... because I can't understand it?

I do think that you do Love your H. I do know your H loves you. I can tell you he is worried, concerned, afraid, in pain, and angry. That is something to think about.
Of cousre Hind sight is 20/20. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> Time to put in some extra effort on meeting your H's EN's.

yes, it is something to think about. That is what I need to be focusing my attention on. Our love, and meeting his EN's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

As much as I don't really like being told that I'm wrong... I really do appreciate your sharing your wisdom and experience with me. I feel like my eyes are a bit more open now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

SMH

D in D-

I agree with Pepperband. There are no dumb questions!
An NC letter is a "no contact letter" which the WS hopefully writes together with the BS to send to the OM or OW, stating that their relationship was wrong, and asking that they not contact them anymore. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Welcome!
SMH

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 03:22 PM: Message edited by: so much hurt ]</small>

Somuchhurt, you have similar thoughts as my W. Why are you so worried about what the OM thinks? Is it you still love him? or is it you don't want anyone to be mad at you? sort of just out of kindness? Why?

SMH, no matter what you may believe right now, you are still in a fog. The OM W will never want to be friends with you, EVER. You slept with her H!!!!If her friendship was important to you, you would have considered it before the A.

If the OM was really your friend, he would have not had engaged in an A while the two of you had other spouses. Concentrate on falling out of lust with him and back in love with your husband.

I hope you are able to keep moving forward in your recovery, good luck!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So I called him. I have been concerned about him thinking that I hated him ever since writing the NC letter... I've told my H that I was concerned about that. So when he asked that exact question... I felt like I had to call him </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Too much concern about the OM's feelings is the problem in the first place. While you are giving all this concern to the OM, you are re-establishing contact and running roughshod over your husband's feelings.

You do not have to call him. The point is that an affair is addictive and you will be looking for reasons to talk to him to get a 'fix' as you go through withdrawal.

Have you told your husband about this contact?

Whether or not the OM's wife would ever want to be friends with you (which I find rating up there with h*ll freezing over in the likelihood category), you cannot have anything to do with any of his family, friends, etc. You need to be out of his life completely.

Your reasoning narrows down to basically somehow having him a part of your life. No now. No tomorrow. No next week. No next year. I think you get the picture.

This isn't only for you. It is for your husband, respect for his healing, and it is the only way you will ever again establish any type of trust in your marriage. Your H has no reason to trust you while you are in any type of contact with OM or his immediate family - and should not trust you if you are.

<small>[ January 21, 2004, 09:14 PM: Message edited by: *Takola* ]</small>

Hi 'So much hurt'.
I have been reading your thread all day and decided to write you.

My husband was unfaithful to me YET I am not going to rake you over the coals for your phone call to the OM.

Many here compare affairs to drug addictions.
There are two ways to get off drugs: cold turkey and gradually.

For my husband to have an affair, it had to be because he cared very much for this other lady.
During the recovery, I gave him all the love I could (and forgiveness) and he returned the love with a repentant heart HOWEVER he still missed and worried about HER!

Several times during those first few months I actually encouraged him to call or e-mail her, in my presense!
I was critised here at the MB by many, for doing it this way but it worked for us.
Many here have mates that are actually still seeing the OP, this was far better and done IN THE LIGHT not in secret.

I found if I DEMANDED 'No Contact' he would just withdraw and go into a depression and build up an obsession in his mind. The contact helped!

I KNOW this is NOT MB rules but it worked for us.
We are VERY happy, our marriage has healed and thrived!

The OW is now married (she was single and she is the one that stopped the affair) and is expecting her first baby.
All of our lives have moved on!

So dear sweet 'So much hurt', please stop kicking yourself. You did not do such a TERRIBLE thing calling the OM after he called to ask if you hated him.
Human kindness is what you did, no matter what you are being told here.
I hope you have an understanding husband just as I was understanding with my husband.

You sure did the right thing to tell your husband that you called and to not keep it a secret from him.

It did NOT put you back to square one in your recovery, maybe it will actually get you further along the recovery road in your marriage, then if you had not called and had let it build up in your mind.
I truly believe you have made it clear to him now not to contact you anymore; you had good closure!

Now you can LET HIM GO and move forward with your life and build a safe and happy marriage.
Sincerely, Julie

SMH,

You said something that I would like to bring back up and have you reflect on. You said </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> perhaps if you can see it from you husbands point of view...
to crawl inside of him and feel the beating of his heart....so to say...
you will be able to help your husband heal...and not be so concerned with the OM's healing process....

*nods* I need to concentrate on my H now. You are exactly right. I feel like I have some closure now... so I THINK and I HOPE that it will be easier for me to move forward... and leave behind those things in the past. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Has it occured to you that your H is the one that needs closure? And you just opened up the whole thing again. Whatever closure he was starting to get, just went out the window. You see NC is for your H as well. It provides "closure" for him to start to heal and hopefully forgive.

You also mentioned that you cannot comprehend your H's love or feel how he shows it. First, part of that is the "fog" that comes from rationalizing what you have done. The other part is you NOT/NEVER recognizing your H for who he is. Until you do, you will not understand how he shows love, why he does it this way, and why it is important for YOU to see that he is. In short, this life is not BURGER KING, you don't always get it your way, but you do often get it, IF you will simply look.

Someday, ask your H what he wanted in a marriage. It may open your eyes. My guess? He wants what most men want, yup sex, but much more. He wanted safety. He wanted to come home and KNOW that home was safe for him. It no longer is.

He probably wanted to be able to look back and realize that giving his effort, his fidelity, his love was a smart thing to do, and a good thing. What he feels now is like a prize fool. His marriage will NEVER be one of fidelity and he knows it. How will he handle that, it is a quandary he is trying to address even as we speak.

He wanted to be respected and loved even with his faults. Your actions showed that was not the case, including you calling OM without having discussed with him. He now knows that your love and behavior as a W is very conditional, and will fear that if he ever fails again, then you will do the same thing: there goes that safety thing again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

He probably feels like he completely failed, and very very impotent right now. You chose OM over him.

SMH, you need to start to consider what your H is dealing with, not just with OM, but with YOU. All of your words don't mean much, and your actions continue to show that you are selfish and he was a fool.

The issue is when will your actions and your words, match the image of a W? They are not so far. I know what you say, but then I read your thought processes and they are about you, and when they are not they are about OM. Don't think your H doesn't see? You are very foolish to think he doesn't.

To some extent this is part of withdrawal, but it is an extremely painful time for the BS, AND it is a time when BS's often just leave. You focusing on your OM, and how he feels, and how you feel about him is pretty short sighted. The man you may lose is your H. OM can be had for a phone call. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Please think about this. It is time for a perspective change.

God Bless,

JL

Blessed time with all due respect...
you said...

Many here compare affairs to drug addictions.
There are two ways to get off drugs: cold turkey and gradually.

Can't imagine any drug rehab encouraging or advocating gradual withdrawl from drugs to beat an addiction...
one minute
one hour
one day at a time....

with drugs it is all or nothing...
using is using...regardless of amount consumed...

and there is also a big difference between poja-ing contact...and making contact without your spouses knowledge or consent....

Also BS don't demand no contact...
demands don't work..they set their boundary...and those professing wanting to work on the marriage decide alone...

each chooses their own path...

so much hurt has been offered glimpses of what effects her actions may have on her spouse....
none was offered in malace...

posters here wish only peace for her and her husband...
they also speak from their hearts and with human kindness.......

ARK

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wokeup:
<strong> Somuchhurt, you have similar thoughts as my W. Why are you so worried about what the OM thinks? Is it you still love him? or is it you don't want anyone to be mad at you? sort of just out of kindness? Why? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">wokeup-

well, of course I can't speak for your wife - but for me, I guess it's a bit of all of the above. I DO still feel that I love OM to some degree. I also, however, have always hated to have people mad at me. I do what I can to make peace. Even if he were someone that I didn't know, I would not want him to think that I hated him, though. It is just not a good feeling to think that someone hates you... and if I can keep someone from feeling that way, I do my best to save them from that pain.
I now realize, of course, that I helped OM to feel better by sacrificing my H's feelings... and that was the wrong thing to do. H and I talked last night... about this and about a lot of things. It was good.
SMH

If her friendship was important to you, you would have considered it before the A.

I understand what you're saying, Nita - I do... and I should have considered her feelings. Just to set things straight, though - she was not my friend before the affair. We became friends DURING the affair. I know... very weird and twisted... but that's the way that it happened.

Concentrate on falling out of lust with him and back in love with your husband.

Exactly. That is what I am concentrating on now. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

I hope you are able to keep moving forward in your recovery, good luck!

thanks, nita!

SMH

Takola -

Too much concern about the OM's feelings is the problem in the first place. While you are giving all this concern to the OM, you are re-establishing contact and running roughshod over your husband's feelings.

*nods* I know that now...

You do not have to call him. The point is that an affair is addictive and you will be looking for reasons to talk to him to get a 'fix' as you go through withdrawal.

I know THAT now, too... unfortunately.

Have you told your husband about this contact?

yes, I did - I told him afterwards. I should have told him before... but that didn't occur to me at the time.


Your reasoning narrows down to basically somehow having him a part of your life. No now. No tomorrow. No next week. No next year. I think you get the picture.

*nods* I hate to admit it, but everyone has been right all along. I find myself wanting terribly to call him today again. I really did think that that call yesterday would make things better. It didn't. Now I don't worry about if he thinks I hate him... I just want to hear his voice and the way that it makes me feel again! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

This isn't only for you. It is for your husband, respect for his healing, and it is the only way you will ever again establish any type of trust in your marriage. Your H has no reason to trust you while you are in any type of contact with OM or his immediate family - and should not trust you if you are.

I'm starting to wonder if I will ever be able to trust myself again. *sigh*

SMH

SMH

You have got some excellent advice from people here. I will not add anymore to what you did, why and the consequences of it.

What I will say though is I applaud your ability to listen and take on board what everyone has said to you. That is the key. You have addressed why you did it, and the potential consequences of that. We can all slip at times. I think you just didn't really think it through, but I am glad you are clearly learning from what you did.

It takes time, it truly does. Your feelings for OM and the kind of person you are won't change overnight. They way that you reacted was because, as you say, you wouldn't like anyone to think you hate them. Of course it was silly to think of OM above your H, but what I am glad to see here is you have truly thought it through and I don't think you will do that again or anything else impulsive without thinking through the consquences of your actions towards your H.

I am happy you two managed to talk well last night. You will need to give him loads of extra reassurance right now.

Take care and wishing you well from London.
Lisa