Hello all,

In my case I am the WS. Its been 18 days since I told BS of the A. 11 Days ago we had a confrontation that ended with her being charged with domestic violence the next day. 9 days ago she was arraigned and pleaded not guilty. 8 days ago I went back to the police dept. and issued a statement recanting my previous statement. I did this for a few reasons:
1. My daughter is technically my step-daughter and her biological father immeadiately started things in motion to try and take her from my BS.
2. If my wife were to be convicted of DV, she would never be able to obtain her nursing liscense in our state. If she divorces me, she will need to be able to make a good living as she would most likely be custodial parent. I do not want to take away her chosen career.
3 Believe it or not I do not feel she is a threat to me or the children. I know I goaded her into a fight when she assaulted me. Yes I know that physical violence is wrong and she was wrong for assaulting me. I'm just saying that I feel its wrong to paint it that she just came out and beat the crap outta me.

When she was arraigned, the judge instituted a temporary protective order that includes a no contact section. We violated the no contact part for a few days but have been and plan on adhering to it for the duration until it is modified or lifted altogether. 9 days ago when she as arraigned her Ex and his family were calling me left and right trying to get me to give them info on what had happened, etc.. Her Ex went so far to say "you help me get my kid from her, I don't care if I have to make it up as I go along... I'll testify and get you your boys..." So when I called my mother inlaws to talk to the kids and she let me know that my wife was there, I told her to let me speak with her that it was very importtant and had to happen then and there.. she refused at first but when I cursed at her and told her to put her dauhter on the phone she realized it was pretty serious. I told my wife what was going on and what I planned to do about it. I told her I wanted her to be sure that this was not about us or me trying to save our marriage, it was about our daughter and sons who deserve to be in one anothers lives and not split apart.

Now here's where I am confused. When I finished telling her these things I told her that we needed to get of the phone and reminded her of what the judge said as far as no contact. I told her I would talk to her when I could and I loved and missed her. For the first time Since I told her of the A she responded with Thomas, I know you do.

We met two days later and talked briefly and she told me she's never wanted a divorce but that I pushed her and probably gave her an ultimatiumm. During this conversation she told me that she did love me and that we needed to deal with the current situation before we dealt with our marriage. Since then and up till we broke contact in respect to the court order, she recipricated when I would say I love you before we hung up off the phone.

So my WS mind is running left and right and to and fro. I tend to obsess on situations and try to prepare for all eventualities. This is a function of my issues with control. I have no control over what my wife is going to do. But questions run through my head and try as I might I cannot stop thinking about it "Is she just saying she loves me so I'll follow through with getting her charges dismissed or lowered? Is she doing this to lead me along and at the last moment change her mind and give me a "hows it feel now" type of lesson...

If any other WS have had feelings along these lines, wether the situation is similar or not, how did you get past them? What can any other WS tell me about coping with the enormous amount of fear I feel as far as being afraid that when it comes time to talk she will be unwilling to reconcile?

Wanted to say that being new here, I'm not familliar with all of the common abbreviations and am trying to get used to them..

2soon

W2S,

In my limited experience, I don't think that any of us have the capacity to flick the love switch on or off at will. We can certainly lie about our feelings, but as far as genuine love I don't think there's an on or off switch. That's speeking of the "feeling" of being in love. Please make sure you follow Plan A to the T. This will change your "said" love into an "act" of love.


What I'm about to write is easier said than done. You can't worry about what she's going to do. All you can do is control yourself. One place to start is to make yourself as emotionally, physically and mentally attractive to her as possible. This is where you have to meet her EN's. I too, tend to get caught in the mire of "what if's and what then's". I doesn't get me anywhere. When I start to plan how I'm going to meet an EN no matter how small then I'm making progress with myself and with her.

Hope this helps.

wise not a WS but I wanted to point something out to you.

You need to look at how betrayed spouses respond to finding out about an affair. These normal under the circumstance responses include paranoria, hypervigilance,obsessing, anxiety dysfuction and so on.

Right now many things in your world are spinning out control at the very time your mind is being flooded with wave after wave of emotions.

Its hard not to do but try not over analyzing when you can.

Right now she is in as much tormoil and state of emotional upheaval as you are....not to minimize our pain because I know the BS is most of the time in far greater pain than the WS.

If the goal is to reconcile then becareful about any bridges your emotions are tempted to burn.

More importantly if you want her to find her way back to you then you have to keep the path home open. Your anger, hurt, rage are all natural emotional defense mechanisms resulting frome the affair. BUT they also tend to push a WS away not pull them closer.

This may shock but the largest group of divorces afer an affair is discovered are implemented by the wayward spouse. And I am not talking about exit affairs where the wayward spouse leaves their marriage for their affair partner. I am talking about what therapist refer to as "panic" divorces. This is when the wayward spouse in an extreme emotional state concludes they have damaged their marriage beyond the point of repair.

So leave the door to your heart unlocked. And if possible push back your pain and anguish enough that you can even leave the porch light on for her.

Good luck you can get thru this...and your marriage can too.

Since its seems both a WS and BS responded, I'll ask the next question thats on my mind. When we can legally talk again, which will be sometime between now and Feb 19 I don't know what to say. I'm actually scared to talk to her because I'm afraid of emotions causing me to push her away when we speak.

Thanks so much for acknowledging that WS do feel pain and sorrow and a host of other negative emotions Stunned. What I'd like to know is well is what are some of the common emotions and feelings a BS goes through initially? I know for my BS it was initially a reaction of indignant confirmation... for five minutes all she could do was point her finger and say "I knew it!!" I want to understand what I can expect when we do start to talk about the A again... I want to know a little of what she might be thinking and feeling... In the week between telling her of the A and the blow up, she needled me with question after question and I answered all of the honestly which she confirmed. I don't know if she has anymore questions and I know to be honest about them if she does ask.

-2soon

"I want to know a little about what she is feeling and thinking"


As the BS, I can give you a little insight of my initial feelings upon Discovery.

I too got violent, very unexpectedly, I'm not a violent person....but when I saw them together in that bar...my world came literally crashing down on me...

How could he do this to me?, Did he hate me and the children that he could do this?, Were the last 20 yrs. a lie?, I thought he loved, adored me, how could I ever trust those feelings again, how could I have thought that he felt that way about me? Where the hell had I been all that time? I must be a complete fool, idiot....

After the first burst of anger, I went numb...I wanted to get in my car and drive as far away as I could, disappear....I said, here you take care of everything, the kids, the house, etc... I'm done....I never wanted to feel that connected to anything again in my life....it was just too painful to have it ripped out from under you so brutally....

I would have given anything for him to say, "oh my god what have I done", "what can I do to make it right", "please don't leave me", "help me", anything, but instead he pulled away....he expected me to just say, "gee sorry it didn't work for you, have a nice life, and how can I make this easy for you"

For days, months, I could think of nothing else but WH & OW, every waking minute was painful, and far into the night...I hardly slept at all.
I never knew how I was going to make it through one more day...I just went through the motions, work, kids, etc. Always on the verge of tears....

It was HORRIBLE!

So yes, your wife probably does mean it when she says she loves you....it doesn't mean that the love she feels isn't mixed in with lots of anger, confusion, doubt, extreme pain....

You need to be sensitive to all of that...she may act loving one moment and angry the next...you've just turned her life upside down....she needs time for her emotions to settle down....

Tell her and SHOW her that you can be the person she once knew and trusted.
Don't expect overnight miracles, a couple of
"I'm sorry's" and it's happily ever after.

You've got a lot of work ahead her and she does to.
And don't forget the children...they may not know details, but they are feeling the pain and confusion all around them, the family security they once knew has been shattered...and they may not know how to identify and voice what they are feeling. They are scared...

I wish you the best....I hope your M recovers. But if it doesn't, you'll want to know that you did EVERYTHING possible to make it work...
Can you live with anything less?

Wise, I would be happy to temper my response with how to repair your marriage later but first the problem at hand. How can you do anything further to cause this woman to lose her children? Regardless of whether she is manipulating you to achieve her worthy goal of holding onto those kids or not, is irrelevant. She is a mother and I don't doubt she would shoot you if it helped her keep the kids. Do not use this is in anyway as a bargaining chip. You have a moral obligation to do everything to make sure she wins in court. Before your affair I trust she wasn't beating the kids. If she's a good mother don't get in her way or I'm sure you haven't seen her worst side.

I feel very strongly that your marriage is dead if her relationship with the kids is compromised in anyway. And I'm a man. Once this part is accomplished you can begin the longggggggggggg road to recovery. Don't think me a pessimist. I have no doubt you can have a much better marriage a year from now if you play your cards right.

Finally I can tell you I am not violent person. In fact it's difficult to get a rise out of me at all. A week after discovery W locked Bedroom door and without hesitation I kicked the door open. I'm sure she was terrified. So my point is your W's behavior shouldn't surprise you though I'm not saying it's acceptable. Keep us posted.

Walking

Well,

I appreciate the input from all around. Walking, you're right when you say that if her relationship with the kids is comprimised in anyway its over. I've only been with her for 5 years but I know her enough to know that losing her daughter to her Ex would definitely seal the deal as far as our marriage is concerned.

I feel a little better today as far as leting go of control of the situation and accepting that I cannot control what she does as far as our marriage is concerned. I work as an IT guy and had to go offsite for a service run to one of our remote locations. I drove with the radio off and just thought and somehow the anxiety and fear of whats going to happen went away for a while.

Walking, you closed your post with the statement that a year from now I could have a good marriage if I played my cards right. I don't know how to play the game and it appears that I have a lot to learn if I want to sit at the table. Hell I'm scared to even think about walking in the room, much less sitting at the table. I feel that other WS may have had the feelings I'm going through right now. I could be wrong though...

-2soon

Wise, OK didn't mean to be too hard about the kid thing but I'm sure you understand. This is a very long process but can be worth it. You will definitely have a closer relationship if you survive this. You'll have to leave to God the things you can't control. As my name suggests I'm afraid to take the next step for fear of blowing the deal. And I'm the BS. I treat my W with kit gloves because I know she is hurting tremendously. But so am I so I have to put subtle pressure on her to do the right thing and balance that with her claims of I'm too controlling. Yes there are certainly landmines ahead but lets take the kid out of the equation. That is second to nothing. I also think intuitively she knows you're hurting. You don't have to hold back your emotions or put on a show either. Just deal with your remorse at the same time dealing with her grief. There are no winners in this but you need to mitigate the damage and you do that by being there when she asks you to be there. Don't push yourself back into the picture too quickly. Hang in there.

Walking

Wise,

You asked what other BS felt upon discovery.

Aside from not being able to eat, sleep, form a complete sentence, quit crying, and general devastation, I felt like my reality had been turned upside down. I could no longer trust what my H told me, I could no longer trust my own rationale. You are doing a great thing by being totally honest with your W. She doesn't realize it now, perhaps, but that is a great gift. Don't ever lie to her! You will take giant steps backwards, believe me.

It might help, too, if you offer to give her access to anything that might help make her feel more secure: online accounts, cellphone records, financial records, etc. Even if my H had offered all that to me, I'd have worried that he was using calling cards or a hotmail account, etc. -- BS are incredibly paranoid. But at least it would have been *something*.

Figure out every possible way you can to be accountable to her, and ask her for more suggestions. Check in with her often. Take her with you whenever possible, go with her whenever possible. I was terrified to leave the house because I knew he'd be on the phone to OW.

I hated hearing him typing on the PC (and he is a programmer with a home office) because I imagined he was IMing with the OW. Realize that every little thing you do will probably fill your W with fear, and do what you can to alleviate those fears. Turn the computer so she can see the screen when she walks by. Share all passwords with her.

If there are any objects around the house that might remind her of OW, get rid of them. My H sent OW a couple of CDs and I hate to even see or hear anything by those bands now. There are other, worse triggers but I'm sure you get the idea.

Your W will be a twitching, jumpy, looking-over-her-shoulder mess for a while, afraid to trust you or her own perceptions. She may lash out at you for this. I never did, but from what I read it's actually a good sign, showing that she's moving from withdrawal into conflict so that she can move into intimacy. She won't take a straight path, either, so if she goes from conflict back to withdrawal you just have to let her, and be patient. You can't say "But honey, you can't do that! You should move forward, into intimacy!" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I would suggest getting Shirley Glass's book "Not Just Friends". It walks through the healing process, as well as describes what each side feels and thinks throughout the ordeal.

Right now neither of you should be making any absolute decisions as to what your future should hold. Let things calm down some and then get some help.

So when I called my mother inlaws to talk to the kids and she let me know that my wife was there, I told her to let me speak with her that it was very importtant and had to happen then and there.. she refused at first but when I cursed at her and told her to put her dauhter on the phone she realized it was pretty serious.

You ever called my MOM's house...spoke to her that way...
she'd hang up you...cause she's smarter than that...to powerstruggle with some bafoon cursing at her... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

and forget even thinking about talking to me...
and I am huge advocate of husband and wife being a team..before other family members...but call my mom up and curse her out....I double dare ya... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

THIS
THIS
Is the exact example of the type of communication pattern that
1. you are responsible for
2. that you must make amends for
3. that you must never do again..

all this drama...all this chaos...
involvement of her Ex... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
calling HER mom..
yelling at her mom...and then off you and your wife go down the same road..

huge stress
huge crisis
huge blowout

then the road to making up again...
same old same old...

yet neither does the work to make it stick...
but it is known and comfortable to both of you....

so you'll reconcile...coast along...being nice to each other for a while...
and then create new crisis and drama to blow the whole thing up again...

and play wounded spouses
and then make up...

sounds exhausting to me...

have you apoligized to Mother in law for cursing her...
NOT for a response or brownie points for you from wifey..
BUT because you should...
because it is the right thing to do...

you know and if you really goaded her into the physical part...I mean if you are honestly saying that you pushed and pushed buttons...to get her to react...

man that is one sly tactic...cause all this chaos with the courts and ex, children, charges and restraining orders...
sure does take the focus off of you and what were we focusing on before the altercation...
oh yeah your affair....
that's right...
whew...that sure is pushed to the side as your wife fights for her rights....

make wife the bad guy..
you the good guy..cause after all you didn't get physical with your spouse....in a negative way..
no
you got physical with another person in a "positive way"....

take a deep breath..
take a step back from this whole mess.
get your focused thoughts off of her and what she might or might not do..
step up to the table and face what YOU have done to participate in the creation of this..
and start and work from there...

yep this post is harsh...but those that know me around here ...know that every thursday after doing twelve hour night shift and getting little to no sleep the next day....that I am entitled too my ranting posts of a sleep deprived lunatic......
don't take it personally... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I'm being tough because if you want to break this cycle that you have half created and participated in then it starts and stops here at some point.

ark

Ark,

Thanks for the reality check. I do know that I pushed her into assaulting me. I said things I knew would provoke her because I was bitter and spiteful that she asked for the divorce when I pushed her.

I want to clarify the whole mother in law phone call... I didn't cuss at her per se but used profanity in our conversation. Something like "listen Jill, this is F*#king important and danielle needs to know." I did apologize for swearing when I spoke to her but explained that she knows I rarely use profanity and I was trying to emphasize the importance of what I had to say.

What got me here was having an affair. I know the charges and all of the drama with it has had the effect you mentioned Ark because as far as anyone involved is concerned, that is all that is focused on.

I have been doing an inventory of the things that I feel my unresolved issues affected in my life during my marriage. I've realized that behavior patterns that have developed from unresolved issues have affected my life in areas more than just my marriage. My marriage became a focal point for my wifes and my flaws that were in ourselves and never dealt with.

I've had a moment of clarity or two in the last few days as well. While riding in the car with my brother last night I talked myself into acceptance of the situation as it is right now. I've identified that I try to passively control things all the time. One of the ways I did that in my marriage was by trying to be the "keeper of all of the truth" as I like to refer to it. I lied left and right to my BS. I did this because I knew the truth about things I lied about and therefore had some measure of control. I've been going crazy because I don't KNOW for sure what my wife is going to do in regards to our marriage. Talking to my brother I was saying how with three kids she would be making a brave decision to leave. With the hurtfull things I said to her when she assaulted me like "see how many men want you with 3 kids from 2 guys" Damn... had to pause after typing that... I cannot believe how hurtful we can be when we lash out... But as I was saying... As I've settled down a little I've realized that she has a lot to consider when deciding what she's going to do. I actually said outloud "She's got a lot to think about... Hopefully she'll go "Whoa slow down... do I want to do this all alone?"" And I thought for a second... how can I demand to know what she's going to do... I need to give her time to think so she hopefully sees how much a role I played in her life and that she did fall in love with me once and that maybe she could again.

Enough rambling for now...

-2soon

I actually said outloud "She's got a lot to think about... Hopefully she'll go "Whoa slow down... do I want to do this all alone?"" And I thought for a second... how can I demand to know what she's going to do...

Nice epiphany...
focus on you...

I need to give her time to think so she [b]hopefully sees how much a role I played in her life and that she did fall in love with me once and that maybe she could again.[/b]

careful of processing and thinking to much about this...well that's easy huh... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

even look at that thought...

[b]hopefully sees how much a role I played in her life [/b]

you really have to ammend for the betrayal...
she could focus on the role as a cheater played in her life...
and hardship be dammed..
most people don't fix after an affair..

lucky for you two to have a pattern of breaking apart and coming back together...
but thats why YOU have to make this time different on your end....

NO contact with Ex-husband...

are you preparing for disclosure of OW...
name times date activities...emails etc...
you can not push those things aside in the hype of the other stuff..
you can not say that is past and done and lets just move on...
won't work...

you have to be preparing for offering totally accountability in action....

You have to learn a new thought and route to marriage..it is not about control..
it's not one of the vows..to honour, cherish and control you... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

You can have a marriage free of control struggles and issues....

and you are going to have to learn how to quit lying.....

but it sounds like you are on your way...
ARK

Ark,

What did you mean by "careful of processing and thinking to much about this...well that's easy huh... "

Not sure what you were trying to say by this

-2soon

meant you will get stuck in a cycle of overthinking processing and obsessing....

over analyzing every little nuance...yours and hers...

you do need to take care of yourself as well..
make sure you are sleeping and eating and getting some activity...

nothing like a walk in nine below weather...

ark

Ark, you've touched on something that I know I need help with. When I'm in an idle state (meaning I'm not doing anything which requires full concentraion) by myself or around others, I tend to fall into the exact thought process you told me to avaoid. I'm a thinker and tend to overthink everything. Besides the emotional torment I put myself through when I do this, it is one of my traits which I know needs to be changed.

I tend to take situations or issues that I'm dealing with and obsess on the issue and overthink it. I try looking at all variables and possible outcomes. A lot of times where I do this I tend to fill in the blanks with assumptions. How do other WS cope with the habit of overanalyzing and obsessing on these things?

-2soon

Obssesing and overanalyzing is apparently a trait that you carry into all situations where there is fear of the future involved.It is a normal coping strategy that has been taken to the extreme and become unproductive.

Focus on the present when you catch yourself obsessing. Notice what physical sensations you are feeling. Bring your attention back to the present. how are you breathing? what sounds do you hear?

Learning meditation can help.

This is all part of taking care of your self, so that your W has a sane individual to come home to.