Hi all,
The following quote was posted originally by me, jlseagull in EN. Now edited slightly and a question in infidelity. If I think that he cheated, may still be cheating and is emotionally disconnected from me, WHAT is my next step? I know that he wants to stay married, but fear that it is really because of kids, not me. I have recently done Divorcebusting 180, without realizing it, I am just so tired of begging for attention. I have been flip-flopping about separation, this is the only thing that helped before, albeit a short separation ( 1 week ), he realized I was serious and wanted changes. Anyway..here's the post...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I have lurked here at MB for a long time - posted once a few months ago, with no responses, hoping for better now!!
Actually, I mostly lurk on infidelity, but maybe this is the place for me- &#8216;cause I really don&#8217;t know what is going on.
I see a lot of advice here, mostly good, and I really need some, so here goes.

I have been married 7 yrs. to a not-too-bad guy. My 1st M, his 3rd. We have had a rocky marriage, but mostly normal probs, or so I thought. I would have said that mostly it was me that has been unhappy, until recently. In the last 6 months or so, we BOTH seem to be tearing our M apart. Incidents as follows:

Most of our M, I have complained of H&#8217;s withdrawal and non-communication, I have begged for attention and time from H. Used some LB&#8217;s I know, but have really thought I tried everything. Over the last 2 yrs it has gotten a little better and a little worse, depending on how you look at it. Our kids, 13D ( yes, not his, but he is great with her ) and 6S, are getting older, so we have had a little more time. But - and I saw the &#8220;sorry, but&#8221; thread - ... Mostly this has resulted in me just following some personal interests ( horses, me and kids are into ), because H is still really withdrawn. In last 2 years, he has seemed to go to bed much earlier and avoided me A LOT&#8230;hmmm, maybe my fault too, he is non-confrontational, he says I am confrontational, I say I am just honest and open!! Hmm, maybe a little loud too and guilty of angry outbursts - ME!? I have taken on more outside responsibilities, so he didn&#8217;t have to ( he does have 1 horse, but really my thing ) and no, I have never been the best at domestic support. But&#8230;I think I do okay, considering all my responsibilities. He has mainly done most of laundry, I do rest if it gets done. Besides main child caretaker, I also mow, weed-whack, clean pool, clean stables, vet care of all animals&#8230;..Not the best cook-nor do I like it, but I cook/heat up something most of time. I am &#8220;just&#8221; a housewife.

Sorry so long, now the latest? story. Last year my H took business trip over my b-day, practically insisting that I did not come with. This caused a lot of arguing before and after. We both did lots of LBing. When he got promotion few yrs ago, H also got &#8220;secretary&#8221; but don&#8217;t call her that , H gets defensive, really she has a title. Only time I have really been jealous, was when this woman called my H at home and asked for H by pet name, not identifying herself - H said I was silly and this led to more discussions/arguments and later small incidents about this woman. I am including this background to say I do not think that I am overall jealous person, but can be at times. I know NOTHING about the people he works with, except what he tells me. This has always bothered me a little, now more. I really started believing after that business trip that H was having EA or PA, EA more likely. Lots of little subtle clues and gut - no real proof. Maybe , just maybe my insecurities and his withdrawal and neglect.

3 months after trip, I finally stuck a recorder in his car. After 2 days, and one really pretty clear tape, I confronted him.
I am not a holder-inner, and what I heard devastated me. Basically, my H was trashing how bad his life is, mostly because of me and the kids and horses - but it was all my fault!! He at one point said that .." I know that cleaning stalls is no fun job but, you have to see it from my perspective..." - he was talking about the fact that I clean stalls but don't do enough inside at night. He said &#8220; Maybe I should talk to her [me] explain that I don&#8217;t love her anymore and that we are complete opposites&#8221;. He went on that he was trapped and he has to do everything ( so not true ) and he is miserable and again it was all my ( &#8220;horse-girl&#8216;s &#8221; ) fault. And much more. Keep in mind that he begged me for a child - his S - , loves my D and agreed to live this life with me. I &#8220;discuss everything to death&#8221; with him.

Now, I have known to some extent that he holds stuff in, he has always denied and said that he was fine, everything was great. 2 yrs ago, I threatened him into IC and he went twice, &#8216;cause I really believed that he was depressed. I have told him that he maybe needed a hobby, he said that we are too busy and he was fine and happy. I have tried to get him to do the horse thing with us, he bought one, but rides 1-2X a year - he does attend horseshows and has always seemed to enjoy them.

Now, I am so resentful and untrusting of H, I do not know what to do. I have recently started to withdraw, and am actually happier when not &#8220;trying&#8221; at my M. I will NOT let H make me miserable, or rather, allow him to affect me that way. snort - easier said than done. I have always accepted that a M has it&#8217;s ups and downs, my H seems to forgotten this. He looks at everything negatively, or at least was seeming to by what I heard on tape, and he admitted to most of it, but says no A, was talking to himself. I don&#8217;t believe him, but have also told him that the possible EA is just a fraction of the problem - or possible symptom. He says &#8220; Chill, everything is fine, you just have to believe me and know that you have a good H that loves you and has been faithful.&#8221; I respond with, we have probs that we really need to work on.

I need help and please don&#8217;t tell me to start with the articles and books, I have. I have printed out the articles for H, have talked to H about books. He worked on them with me for very short time. Now he says that books and the internet do not hold the answers for us, just love him and give him chance to open up and &#8220;Chill, everything is fine, you just have to believe me and know that you have a good H that loves you and has been faithful.&#8221; I am simply getting more and more resentful and leaning towards having A or getting a D. I know that I will be sorry for either in some ways, but I am truly unhappy myself now.

H says that he wants to stay married, I believe him, he loves his kids to death. But I am just so damned lost, I do not believe that he loves me or that he will honestly try. Some of the things that he was ranting about on the tape were things that I had brought up in MC years ago, and he denied being resentful then. I left that session crying and admitting that he was right, MC would not work, he was not being honest. H never wanted to go to MC anyway.

Now we have gone to MC again, but not good counselors and really a waste. I believe lots of things could help, but H is not very open, half-hearted about it all, says I just need to Chill&#8230;. I feel more and more resentment and am just barely trying myself lately. It exhausts me, to say the least.

SOMEBODY PLEASE HELP!! </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Now, we have been back and forth over the possible cheating, I also can hear a woman's voice in the background, that is most likely not the radio- she actully responds to his remarks twice-
We also have tried to focus on the problems that led up to this, trying to disregard the possible infidelity. He says that he felt unappreciated and trapped. I told him, that while I can certainly understand this and sympathize and emmpathize, I cannot understand how it can be "my fault". He agrees one moment and then tells me that I am telling him that his feelings are invalid. I am not, I understand that he felt this way, just some faulty premises and unfair accusations on his part. For example,he said that I went out to barn all the time after he got home and he was trapped inside...As I have said, he has a horse out there, and he has admitted that I was probably only outside about a 1/2-hour per nite. In actuality, he has much more free time in the evenings than he was admitting to and 10X more than me - not really an issue for me. The only thing that he accused me of that was fair, was that I didn't do laundry and I didn't do much, but have been since this all happened. And now I just want to ramble on and on, about how unfair it all is. With a million more dumb "he said, i said" stories.. Sorry -

please help
jl

OK, you've read the books, read the site. What have youput into action already. How are the LBs going? Cut them out entirely, or waiting until he does something before you do (wrong tack to take).

This begins with you. Let him know you've been reading, you are going to start acting different. In a few days see if he notices a change. If he does, ask him to fill out the EN questionnaire with you, and then begin fulfilling his ENs.

It starts with you. Many LBs in your post, angry outbursts, independent behavior, judgementalness. This is years of resentment built up, and hard to make the M livable.

Then what comes after that? After a time of Plan A, approach him about beginning to fulfill your needs, and asking for the truth about this possible EA/PA.

JLSeagull,

There is a lot of "Oh yeah? Well YOU....!" in your post. I think you guys are focusing on maintaining your own pride and position of being right in preference to truly working on your M. For example, when he says he feels trapped, rather than saying you don't see how that can possibly be your fault, you could ask him how the two of you could address that together. What is making him feel trapped? How can the two of you negotiate some relief for him? Reread the stuff on here about LB's, POJA, and Successful Negotiation.

That said, it does sound to me like he's in an A and you won't get far trying to negotiate with someone talking fog talk. No matter what is said, nothing will be his fault, no one will understand him, and he will be overwhelmingly miserable. Most of all, it will all be your fault. If that is how things pan out, consider the attempted negotiations good practice for the future, when he's come around a bit.

Regardless of whether or not he's in an A, you can do a lot of Plan A'ing. You know for a darn fact that one of his top unmet ENs is domestic support. Figure out a way to get that house in shape. Fix his favorite meals. Make his home a haven for him. Eliminate the LBs completely! I'd drop the accusations/questions about an A, but keep your eyes open.

Keep us posted, and sorry you didn't get any responses at first. That can be a little depressing.