oh ark...you rock! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

want the truth...the only addition I'd make to the absolutely bang-on advice you've just received is: have you read HNHN? I just re-read it and was so struck by the whole discussion of SF for a man, what it means, what your rejection means, your lack of interest, however you care to characterize it...

(ark just summarized it very very well...)

I too used SF as a weapon, a tool, whatever...I recognize this tendency in others...which is why I sincerely hope you can take what ark has bluntly said to you to heart...this is about YOU...ark, pep: both blunt, wise posters...getting to the meat of the matter...

best of luck, no matter what you choose to do...awed

Edited to add: We were cross-posting there...glad to hear ark's message got through A-okay! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> This is true. And he apparently didn't realize that each time we had this talk, I was telling him what I needed, and he just didn't "hear" me, so he didn't change either. Sad... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Have you tried mirroring? It's worked very well for us. Breaks the impasse in yet another way...when you cannot "hear" the other one (so did writing...try many ways).

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My next question is, how do I put aside my anger long enough to enjoy SF? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well...I put "aside" SF because of anger...for about 3 years if I recall correctly, beside the occasional crappy ****...no love lost there for sure...although we were still friends...

Then once the anger was gone...poof! (And I mean poof!) Interest in SF was back with a vengeance.

Anger techniques: as long as you are thinking bad things about him, you will continue to be angry. So change your view. Simple but not easy.

As ark suggests: work your Plan A. Look up the Dr. Laura letter that was floating here a few weeks back...how the guy learned to love his wife again. Think good thoughts, concentrate on love, banish the negative. Try it...it works.

But only if you want it to... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

<small>[ February 04, 2004, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: awed18 ]</small>

wantthe..
how are things going??

How is YOUR plan A coming along.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

how do I put aside my anger long enough to enjoy SF?

I'm gonna take a stab at this..though I believe awed answer and experience with this is dead on and really good advice...

I have never done anything but enjoy SF...my attitude about SF even in the mix of runny noses, piles of laundry, crap at work, and chaos of life...is damm if nothing else goes right today...atleast there's always the chance of some SF with hubby...
always have viewed that as a positive thing..

always have remained open minded even when drop dead tired and may be the last thing on my mind...if something gets started...chances are I am going to change my tune and enjoy....

(being such a prude you have NO idea how hard that was for me to type.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )...

I don't view SF as something for him...but as something for me and him...
I don't view SF as begrudgingly giving him something or something he has to deserve or should be grateful for...

Think about how any person would feel if their desire for SF was attached to such emotions...

that a person's feeling of desire are turned in to negative repercussions....

that it becomes a power strugle...

NOW if these feeling wantthe were NEW from the finding out about an affair...then I would be suggesting or approaching this differently..
BUT these were your pre-affair attitudes and behaviors...

so they have been this way a long time...so like any other learned behavior you let go of the anger by putting forth the conscience effort to do so...
that part of the reason you think this way is because you have trained your mind to think this way..
even in this website dr. harley addresses habits of spouse....vs instinct...I don't believe human instinct drives us too attach negative connotation to our sexuality...so there for it really is a habit..
and changing our own attitudes about things is one way to break to a habit...

AND regardless of the affair if a happy peaceful marriage is the bigger picture..then affair or no affair...it probably wasn't going to happen as long as you two remained locked in the power struggle of SF...

This is true. And he apparently didn't realize that each time we had this talk, I was telling him what I needed, and he just didn't "hear" me, so he didn't change either. Sad...

Nope not sad...totally expected...look at the comminication pattern here...

he comes to you to talk to you about his needs..
you listen but you don't hear him...becuase the whole time he's telling you what he needs...you are thinking of and formulating your response, and counter offer...

when one spouse comes to us with needs that need addressed it is the absolute wrong time to counter "attack" propose with needs we need met...
communication totally breaks down...and neither hears a thing the other says...
and big surprize nothing changes.....

You need to learn to listen and hear...and repeat back what you believe they have said to see if it is correct...and you need to keep your trap shut about what you need or want... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

both left those conversations feeling neither heard because that is exactly what happened...

do your part to break that cycle...

A lot of people are saying that the proper care and feeding of husbands is a good book to help people with these exact issues...

much luck to you
ARK

Thought I'd check in with an update. Ark and awed, I took your advice to heart, put aside my anger for a while and have had SF twice in the last few days with WH...and we both enjoyed it! He seems much happier and says he feels like we're on the right track now. I'm not so sure.

In MC on Saturday, I explained that I'm trying some new tactics to break our stand-off, and that I'm willing to put aside my anger and my need for the "whole truth" for a while, but that I still think it's vital to my, and our, recovery.

What I'm having trouble with is not having any of MY needs met in the meantime, but I'm trying to be patient. The other problem is my gut feeling that things have picked back up with OW...WH let out some new info last night about why he didn't come home until late two Fridays ago. He now says he bought some beer and drove around by himself drinking it, then stopped to get more beer and came home. Says he knew I wouldn't like that he was drinking and driving, so that's why he didn't tell me. There's always a REASON, but that doesn't make it the truth!

Anyway, I'm thinking hard about asking for a polygraph, or hiring a PI, or something, because I'm starting to believe he'll never tell me. How wrong is that? And when do 180s apply -- in Plan A?

He's telling me he loves me all the time, and I don't always feel like saying it back, but sometimes I do anyway, because I'm sure I do still love him, I'm just angry right now. He says he's not hearing that I really want to work on this...and I told him that I wouldn't be here if I didn't.

I'm getting really tired and frustrated. Can anyone help? Sorry so long!

WTT