Hi guys, I just read a book by Homer Mc Donald,
who I have talked to at his home in San Antonio, who has been helping to save marriages in his practice for over 45 years. He reccomends dating to get the other person to decide whether to come back or to continue with their affair. The book says basically get on with life do not show sorrow and pain. Cheating spouses are driven away by the pressure of love, clinginess and pain by their spouses.If you get on with life including dating (without having sex, although you should not tell your spouse anything about he sex when asked (to keep them guessing I guess and to fear the worst)but not tell the spouse that you are obstaining) your spouse will see that they are losing you and that you are happy. In most of his clients in those 45 years he says that 80-90% return. They want the excitement of an affair but do not want to lose the security of their home and family in case the affair does not work out. Which, most do not since only 5% of affairs last past 1 year. What do you think of this guys suggestion. He does have over 45 years of experience and he has used this method for the entire time with a great track record. Sounds wacky to me but you cannot argue with his known success?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by GlenninSantaFe:
Hi guys, I just read a book by Homer Mc Donald,
who I have talked to at his home in San Antonio, who has been helping to save marriages in his practice for over 45 years. He reccomends dating to get the other person to decide whether to come back or to continue with their affair. The book says basically get on with life do not show sorrow and pain. Cheating spouses are driven away by the pressure of love, clinginess and pain by their spouses.If you get on with life including dating (without having sex, although you should not tell your spouse anything about he sex when asked (to keep them guessing I guess and to fear the worst)but not tell the spouse that you are obstaining) your spouse will see that they are losing you and that you are happy. In most of his clients in those 45 years he says that 80-90% return. They want the excitement of an affair but do not want to lose the security of their home and family in case the affair does not work out. Which, most do not since only 5% of affairs last past 1 year. What do you think of this guys suggestion. He does have over 45 years of experience and he has used this method for the entire time with a great track record. Sounds wacky to me but you cannot argue with his known success?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And another way of saying this might be:

"Should I use another human being and toy with their heart to bring my spouse back?"

Are you willing to mis-use another woman by dating her .... using her as a device to win back your wife?

As far as I am concerned, this sounds like a cold and callous thing to do to the PERSON you date while married!!!!!

Pep

No thats not the idea at all. They are talking about having a friend of yours who is the opposite sex help you by going to dinner simply as friends nothing else to make the other person decide what to do. Purely platonic and upfront to your friend.

I understand exactly what you mean.
The other woman friend is in on the Plan!

Carol basically did the same thing with a 'pretend boyfriend'.

Sometimes the fear of losing our mates is EXACTLY what it takes to open our eyes!
Rachel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Glenn read Carol's story, it is in the first two pages:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=014880;p=1

<small>[ January 24, 2004, 10:43 AM: Message edited by: MakeYourOwnSunshine ]</small>

Well, I tried that and I ended up MARRYING the guy I dated. I was so wounded and vulnerable after my H left me that I would have fallen in love with a TREE if it had looked at me right.

The danger of dating when you are emotionally unstable is that you will FALL for the first person who comes along and meets even the bare minimum of needs. And most often that first dating relationship doesn't work out, so the BS just sets himself for a NEW AND IMPROVED heartache! Not to mention the huge problems that this causes when/if a WS tries to come back.

The new relationship just complicates matters for that. And I concur with what Pepper said, that is a cruel use of another man or woman to just use them to get a spouse back. What person in their right mind would date someone on those conditions??

I mean, do you tell the person, "hey, I am really just using you to manipulate my spouse and will dump you once I get her back." Is that what you tell them? I am sorry, but separated people are simply NOT AVAILABLE, legally, emotionally or morally, to date and they shouldn't be doing it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MakeYourOwnSunshine:
<strong> I understand exactly what you mean.
The other woman friend is in on the Plan!

Carol basically did the same thing with a 'pretend boyfriend'.

Sometimes the fear of losing our mates is EXACTLY what it takes to open our eyes!
Rachel <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Glenn read Carol's story, it is in the first two pages:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=014880;p=1 </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That was her MARRIAGE coach ..... I think there is a huge difference between asking a platonic opposite friend out ..... and creating a ruse using your marriage coach!

Pep

Well the real issue...
the bigger picture of this is what are YOUR core beliefs about marriage...regardless of what the WS does or does not do...

the exact actions of the affair...
the lies LIES
the secrecy
the game playing
the disregarding of vows....forsaking all others...

all the things that the you are defining at this moment in your marriage is that these actions are wrong and cause great harm and pain....

you need to move away from all aspects and actions of the affair that make it wrong...

you need to walk the walk and talk the talk about all the qualities of a marriage that make it a marriage....

They want the excitement of an affair but do not want to lose the security of their home and family in case the affair does not work out.

does anyone want a spouse to be with them for only security of a home...and loss of family...
or should we want our spouses to choose of their own free will to be with us?

This idea disrepects all marriages...the dating idea...
stay married to me..or I will threaten to date/sleep with someone else...

Imagine the backlash of your actions...
you want her not to lie so you lie to her...
you want her not to be intimate physically emotionally real or pretend...so you do the exact thing you don't want her to do...

it is irrational...

this guy doesn't fix marriages...
he plays tit-for-tat and so in the end the two seperated people can come back together and be equal in the shadow of disrepecting marriage, others, and eachother...

He gives eveyone an out from living up to the expectations of a real marriage and trial of one...

married people can not date

ark

Pepper, I meant her 'pretending' to have a boyfriend, when she was actually out alone!

I was not referring to her marriage coach, that was different, he was giving her advice only.

Pepper, you always give good advice .
Would you mind going over to 'recovery' and writing to Anne in the topic "Time to get out of the ring."

That is where I read about the Carol's story site but she needs a different approach, it seems, as she is close to giving up.

For some reason, her message is bothering me and I cannot think of a reply that could help her!

Sincerely, Rachel

No thats not the idea at all. They are talking about having a friend of yours who is the opposite sex help you by going to dinner simply as friends
To help it LOOK like you are having an affair to your spouse.

Purely platonic and upfront to your friend.
But very much lying to your spouse. And yes leaving something out;
(not tell the spouse that you are obstaining) You mean abstaining.
or saying something different;
(not tell your spouse anything about he sex when asked (to keep them guessing I guess and to fear the worst)

I don't think I would want to be with some I had to lie to, to get them back.
But I guess if your ONLY goal is to get them back (not have a successful marriage) then it might work.

<small>[ January 24, 2004, 10:32 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

GSF keep in mind that most affairs start out as innocent, platonic friendships and that by dating you are stepping into the same territory that your WW initially did. Your EN(emotional needs) have probably not been met for quite some time so if you start dating another woman who fulfilling some on those neglected EN, there is a very strong possibility that your love bank for your WW will close for good and you will no longer want to fight to save the marriage. Now imagine that your WW finds out, comes out of the fog, and expresses to you that she has ended her affair and wants to rebuild the marriage, what then? The roles will have been reversed and nothing will have been resolved. By the way I read Homer McDonalds e-book and this is exactly what happened in his example of the WW and BH but they had to go through a convoluted switching of roles before they fell in love once more and remarried. Frankly this strategy has more cons than pros if you are trying to save your marriage.

I do get what you (and McDonald) are trying to say, Glenn.

BUT dating, or even pretending to date, in order to shake up your WW would be manipulative and dishonest. Those 2 things have NO place in a marriage -- ever. Dishonesty begets dishonesty.

And married people shouldn't date. If you date (or pretend to date), your wife and everyone else will have the opportunity to lose respect for you. Your plan could backfire in a big way.

I understand the pain and confusion you're in, but find another - honest - approach. Could you call one of the Harley's for some GOOD advice?

Don't give away your integrity, Glenn.

Lori

Hey guys, if the problem at this point is simply getteing her to the table to talk, can this be used to simply get the dead dialog open once again. If I was askedby her I would tell her the truth and say we are only friends and that is all. She would have to believe it or not. Could you give me any other advice to get the lines of communication open since we have two small children and I truly think she loves me but she is not sure what she wants in life right now?

Guys what are Plan A and Plan B and in which book do I find it? I think that the affair is not ongoing but I do believe it was bigger than she made it out to be. Between her mother and I we have received 5 differing versions. I think she is afraid I would go and find him and take him off this planet. So, how do you get a wife who is upset and confused to the table to work on your marriage? I just need a method to get her on the telephone or maybe not? I just want to open dialog if possible and honestly right now I do not know if I want her back. If it was not for the children I would be gone but since we have the children I think we would have to earn our way out of this marriage.

Glenn,

I have read some of McDonald's stuff, too.

I believe there is a whole lot more to it than just "date to get your S back."

In fact, he basically says a lot about "Acting As If...." - a term taken (I think) from Divorce Busting web site.....
Acting As If your spouse is already gone, and you are "moving on with your life....." singing, happy, etc, whenever they are around, agreeing to any FOG-BOUND silliness they verbalize to you.

What this tends to do is a tactic Dr. Dobson also talks about (funny how all this advice is similar?): It allows you to pull back, detach a little bit. By detaching, you make yourself LESS available to them.....you appear less clingy, and to have "moved on" and in many cases, it scares them back toward the M.

Maybe you can do this without actually involved another (innocent) human being? Some here have done this without actually having someone else. I did a version of it, myself. While talking to my H on the phone, I went and rang the doorbell <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> told him my "ride was here" and quickly cut him off the phone!!! He tried to ask who it was, but I dodged him, and left him wondering who I was with and where I was going.

Since you are a man, you wouldn't want her to think someone was "picking you up" at your house....maybe you could arrange to have lots of loud music going in the background when she calls your cell (or you call hers!!), and tell her it's very hard to hear her from where you are, and you'll get back to her another time (be vague).

The advice you've been given is sound, though. Think twice about involving another, innocent person in your "scheme." It could backfire, and then many more people will be hurt.

Good luck, and God Bless,

Mel:

"I was so wounded and vulnerable after my H left me that I would have fallen in love with a TREE if it had looked at me right."

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Glenn: What you are contemplating is manipulative behavior at best. Do you want 2 combat lies with more lies of your own?

The truth is that your WW has 2 make her own choices 2 come back or not 2 come back. I think you set yourself up for a MUCH better M in the long haul if you're as sincere in everything you do and say as you possibly can be. You can't be radically honest by lying, and you can't expect your W 2 be attracted 2 an honest relationship with you again by putting on a show like this.

By your last post, I can see you haven't read much about the MB methods. You can find a lot out about them from the home page, by clicking on "home" and/or "concepts" at the top of your screen.

Do this using MB methods. Try not 2 play manipulative games. Okay?

best,
-ol' 2long

I just finished reading Carol's story on this site. As she says it is about perception. She would go out to the theater, dressed in sexy outfits. He WH assumed she was going with a man, but she was going by herself. She never lied to him. She simply let him draw the wrong conclusion. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

For myself, I doubt if that would work and I doubt if I could pull it off. What I have to do is get on with my life and be honest about it when I talk to WW. I will not date as I am a married man. I want my wife back.

But, I will not pace about the house, feeling sorry for myself. I am actively searching for friends who I can do things with as though I was single. The only exception to that is dating.

Lupolady that is just too funny. I cannot stop laughing. The doorbell trick is just great. I do not think we have a doorbell here at the ranch but I am going to check.If not I will immediately have one installed. 2long I agree to not decieve but how do you open dialog? She is withholding our children right now. No contact at all and is trying to file a restraining order to keep them. That is what her friend did to keep the children from her husband. It worked she got the kids for 1 year as a result. I found out about the affair and she ran with our children to a friends because she got caught. I simply want dialog with our 4 year old and 7 year old. I do not dialog with her (Maybe truthful, maybe not)but I am just not in a place to talk and neither is she but I think if we can both of us can begin to work on this if we both decide to.

I think that too often people have tunnelvision and are overly dependent on the advice of others rather than being instictual. Most of us have dealt with the opposite sex prior to marriage and many seem to forget that a bit of psychological warfare can work wonders.

For whatever its worth, I think this is a valid option in certain circumstances. If nothing else is working then go for it. I think its a valid move between plan A to B.

Date to bring her back?

Sure!

And use that match to find the gas leak.

It just might work.