Coyote,

This is a good place with a lot of supportive people. I am jealous of your optimism and hopefulness. I feel the same way in my situation (better explained on a separate thread), as far as the continued efforts. For your and you family's sake and your WH's sake, I hope he gets his head out of his ars and comes out of the "fog" and starts putting forth the effort on his part. It is good of you to want to meet his EN, but don't stuff your EN's so deep that he doesn't know of them. What I am trying to say is that once he starts working on the M, he should be willing to meet your EN's too. I hope this makes sense. I am very scrambled up because of my situation. Good luck to you and your M.

Thanks Pookey. I know what you're saying. I also have ENs that need to be met. This is such a difficult thing to do.....seeing him in person and knowing what he's doing/done to the family, but I'll do my best and if things don't by chance work out then I know I've tried my very best. I know sometimes these situations take awhile and am not quite ready to move on although I do feel myself as being stronger.

I met with h for lunch today. We actually had a nice lunch....only a couple times did I want to jump across the table and strangle him!

We talked about his new job he's starting next week, the girls, and small talk. H seemed to get upset when he gave me some of his new business cards because I asked him what he wanted me to do with them. It just came out that way because he gave me quite a few so I thought maybe he wanted me to pass them around. He almost started crying when I asked the question, and told me he thought I might want them and to give some to the girls. I thanked him.

H told me he read my e-mail I sent him but didn't know what EN meant, so I told him. His comment was that maybe he hadn't met my EN's either. H paid for the lunch but told me I could leave the tip. Fair enough.

He put his hand on my back when walking me to my car. I was getting ready to get in the car, when h gave me a hug. He then held my hand for a couple seconds. I asked him if we could get together next week and he said maybe.

I really wanted to ask questions about his living arrangements, etc., but I didn't because I didn't want to spoil the moment.

I was excited about the way the lunch turned out but at the same time sometimes I think maybe I'm reading something into nothing.

Any suggestions about what my next course of action should be?

Why do you think he almost started crying when you asked him about the business cards? That is interesting. Was he proud when he showed you the cards? Was he thinking that you were dismissing them?

It sounds like it went really well, Coyote! Do you think he needs to feel admired and respected by you?

I don't know why he almost started crying when he gave me the business cards. It really surprised me. Maybe the fact that he thought maybe I wasn't going to take them which is a means of keeping in contact with him....his new number is on it. I was surprised.

I know I would ask him to cut back on his work hours and I know what a hard worker he is, so I should give him more compliments about how proud I am of him.

Yesterday was a positive note but I need to stay focused because we still have a long journey ahead of us regardless of the outcome.

Coyote

How are you doing?

It sounds promising. Keep taking baby steps. It does sound good.
I think it was wise not to push for information. Just keep working on his EN's. Your doing real good.

Thanks for the encouragement, Silverthorn.

How am I doing....well, I'll tell you....I'm mentally drained right now. I'm going to try to go to bed early tonight.

I left a message this morning on my h's cell phone telling him how I enjoyed our lunch date yesterday and how good he looked.

H called me back an hour later. I told him I enjoyed talking with him yesterday and he said the same to me. He then told me about his new job and how his office window faces towards my office building. He can't see my building though because of all the other buildings! I asked him if maybe we could have lunch again and he said probably. H then told me what his plans were for the week. That's a first in awhile.

It's a good thing I have a job because otherwise I think I'd be on the psych ward right now! I plan on joining a gym once my foot heals from surgery. Some ladies from work asked me to join, so I think it will be fun.

Feel free to offer any advice because I sure can use it! Right now I'm reading "Surviving An Affair" (or something like that). It really hits home.

Coyote, i think that was very astute of you to call him and tell him that. I get the sense that he takes enormous pride in his job and wants to be admired by you. You did superb.

Did you break his heart before his affair happened?

I suppose I did break his heart. He was/is always so stressed out and works long hours. Instead of complimenting him on his dedication to his work, I'd complain about how he wasn't spending time with the family. I wasn't very supportive. Then I started feeling ignored because I felt work was more important to him. It's like he has to prove to himself that he can be successful in life.

I just hope it isn't too late to work things out between us.

No Coyote, its not to late. Sometimes other things just slip in. You can even tell him that. This also gives you an oportunity to ask about his job, and the work he does.

You could always invite him to lunch. He might enjoy that. Keep making small steps.

Sometimes we men do equate our self worth by how successful we are.

You are really doing a good job.

Thanks for the encouragement Silverthorn. I really needed that!

I plan on inviting him to lunch next week. I'll also continue to call his cell phone and leave short messages. Who knows, maybe one of these days h will invite me to lunch!

I'll take your advice and show more interest in his work.

Any other tips will be greatly appreciated.

Well, I think I really blew my chances today. It all started when h called me at work this afternoon ragging on me about my daughter's car and how I should have had her change the oil a couple weeks ago. I let him vent and hung up. Later I called him back thanking him for having the oil, etc., changed.

I then asked him if he thought there was a chance of us reconciling. He said he'd just been thinking about that. Sometimes he thinks there's a chance, other times he doesn't. From then on all that came out of his mouth was negative things about me. I just couldn't handle the negativity today, so I asked him if he had anything positive to say about me and why he ever married me in the first place. He always came up with an answer.

I ended the conversation by saying I needed to move on (again) and something needs to be decided. I do still love him but I don't know how much more of the put-downs I can handle. How can anyone want to reconcile with someone when nothing positive is ever said?

I also mentioned that we can't get to know one another by going to lunch once in a blue moon. H said we only talk about kids and work....nothing else. He's the one who talks about his work. I thought lunch the other day was a success but evidently not according to h even though he told me he had a nice time.

I'm at my wit's end. What should I do???

Hi Coyote,

Again, you did not blow it. You do not need to be on the receiving end of your H telling you what is bad about you. I'm sure you could give it back to him in spades. Did you, no. Call or write your H. Tell him that you do want to talk about your M, but you felt he didn't. Be honest about it. Let him know all the positive steps you are taking. If he is open to it buy him His Needs/Her Needs and ask him to read it.

You might also want to share with him how much it hurts that he just wants to point out faults. I would invite him to lunch and talk about it. It seems he wants to talk about more then his job or kids. Your still in Plan A.

There is lots of hope, your both still talking.
Right now he is in the fog. SOme of your efforts are still reaching him, but not everything. I do agree you do need more contact with him. I would even talk to him about that. Let him know that you still want the M and that you still Love him.

Silver

Silverthorn, you sure do know how to make a gal feel better! Here I've been crying my eyes out thinking we're finished.

So you think it's ok to discuss "us" with h? Some books I've been reading advise "sitting back" and waiting instead of discussing issues. I don't understand the "sitting back" and waiting...guess I'm not the patient type. Sometimes I feel like I'm on pins and needles!

Once again, you've given me hope!

Well, from what you said, he is the one that said

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I also mentioned that we can't get to know one another by going to lunch once in a blue moon. H said we only talk about kids and work....nothing else </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">For me this is a sign that he does want to talk about the M. It couldn't hurt to talk with him about it. You still want the M, and I think he does need to hear that.

I do know what you mean about patience, its rough wanting to fix things knowing that it cant be rushed.

<small>[ February 05, 2004, 12:07 PM: Message edited by: Silverthorn ]</small>

I debated whether or not to call h this morning, so right before lunch I called him on his cell and he actually answered. Really shocked me. Anyway, he asked me if my co-worker had told me he'd called me this morning before I got to work. I told him no and asked him what he wanted. He said he wanted to say hi. We chatted for a couple more minutes and hung up. It was a pleasant surprise.

Sounds like a nice surprise.

Its sounds good. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I then asked him if he thought there was a chance of us reconciling. He said he'd just been thinking about that. Sometimes he thinks there's a chance, other times he doesn't. From then on all that came out of his mouth was negative things about me.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It must have been very hard to sit there and hear nothing but negative things about yourself. It's hard enough hanging on to shreds of self esteem when your H is involved with someone else, and that just iced the cake. You did GREAT by not letting it escalate into a fight. You should be very proud of yourself.

Is it possible that "all those negative things" hold some clues about what you could do to improve yourself (in his eyes)? Like did he say he slaved away and all you ever did was gripe about the long hours? Did he complain about dinner never ready and the house always a mess? Review the accusations in your mind, and see if there is anything useful in there.

It's perfectly fine if you *don't* find something useful. WS, when they are still in the A, believe all sorts of awful things about their spouses. It's what allows them to continue in the A, and justify their actions to themselves, and relieve a bit of the guilt they feel. So he might have been just spouting rubbish.

Thanks for the compliment Turtlehead. Yes, it was hard sitting there hearing all those things he was saying. I just finally asked h if there was anything positive he had to say about me. When I asked him why he even married me, he replied because it was in his heart, so I asked him if he still had those feelings, he hesitated and said yes.

I get confused because sometimes I think he's just telling me what he thinks I want to hear to shut me up.

Just like when he called me the next morning after all those put downs just to tell me he'd made it to the ski resort and to say hi. Why would he do that if he thinks I have no initiative, am boring, am content, etc., etc.?

He called me and our two daughters to let us know he was going skiing to Montana this weekend. He usually refers to "I" and not "we" when he tells me he's going someplace, although I figure OW is with him.

It's like he has two different personalities because one minute he's calling me "baby" but yet the next minute he's lashing out at me. Do you think he's confused as to why I'm not getting angry with him for saying & doing the things he has to me?

I'm really trying to hang in there but as you all know, it's really hard. I never did like roller coaster rides!

What does anyone think about giving/sending h a VD card/gift or would I just be wasting my time and making myself feel more miserable? H gave me a Christmas gift but I didn't give him one, so would it be wise to give h a card/gift? I guess I don't really understand what h is thinking, so am not sure it would be a smart move on my part.