You know, I do believe that my wife and her lover's affair will end. I believe that. I believe in the MB's concepts. But, I can see how this will end. Even in my plan B, I am continuing to LB in such a way where I can see my wife ending the affair, but being so fed up with my actions "behind the screens" that she looks elsewhere and ends up with someone other than the guy she is with now. I see that as being very realistic.

Let me explain. My wife, she used to complain about me being controlling. This is one of the things I have been working on in her absence. I have learned that more than likely she felt imprisoned in this relationship. The more I would push for her to stay the more imprisoned she would feel and the more she would withdraw. She wants to be free. She wants control. And the slighest bit of me taking control or trying to control a situation sends her back. It could be something simple. For example, it snowed today so I asked her if I could bring the kids over so I could go into work (schools were closed). She has the freedom of working from home, so it had always been for her to stay with the children in days like this. For some reason she was upset (I know she planned on spending the day with the OM and could not do it with the kids around). She accused me of being controlling and saying that it was not fair since I have the kids on Monday I should have figured a way to keep them without involving her. Anyway. I controlled the situation. It turns her sour.

Now. My children. I tell them that mommy's choice to move out is wrong. I tell her that mommy has a boyfriend and that is wrong. I tell them that we both love them, but mommy has made a choice that has moved her out of the house. I tell her the man is no good. When they tell me that they miss her and they want her to come home, I tell her that they should tell her that and not me. I tell them that they should express their feelings to her.

So, they do. She hears them say things like, "Mommy, we want you home." All of what they say she believes that I am telling the children these things. She feels I am controlling...that word again, the situation. She is disgusted by this because there is nothing she can do; her children are telling her about the man she is trying to hide and she's ANGRY...at me.

I told my daughter not to tell me that she is sad about mommy, but to tell mommy that she is not happy with this situation. So, when I talk to her on the phone she says, "Daddy, what was it that you wanted me to tell Mommy?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />
I told her "I didn't tell you to tell her anything. Tell her what you feel."

So anyway, she is convinced that I am teaching the children to hate her man, which will, I believe, only turn her to a new man that she could introduce to the children.

All in all, I know I need to serious stick to my plan B and have the children stop pressuring her too. If not, she will never come back. She wants to be free so badly. I know she loves me (deep down) she just wants freedom. Once she knows she has it, I believe she will work her way back. But she still views me as this controlling monster. What can I do to "make" her see otherwise?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by solon:
<strong> But she still views me as this controlling monster. What can I do to "make" her see otherwise? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well nothing. Because none of the behavior you described is "controlling." She is calling it controlling because she feels guilty and is tryng to contrive greivances. You have no control over the fact that SHE decided to leave. You have no control over the fact that she has chosen to take up with another man. It is not "controlling" to discuss the TRUTH with a child. Children deserve to know the truth [within limits] about their lives. It is not "controlling" to tell a child to direct uncomfortable questions to the correct source. That is just common sense.

Rather, wouldn't it be controlling if you tried to HIDE the truth about your wife?

So, please don't buy into these silly, contrived greivances. She is just hunting for ways to blame you for the intense, and appropriate, guilt she feels. Don't buy into it. Pass on the guilt, please.

P.S. I think women who complain about people "controlling" them need to grow some balls. A person can only be "controlled" with their own consent.

Thank you, Melody. I've been needing to read that concise summary of why it's not control for a long, long while. I got accused of being controlling for entirely too long.

Try renting the movie "Gaslight". It's a classic movie, and the term "gaslighting" is now a term used in therapy.

I went through years of being told I was demanding and controlling and wouldn't listen so he had to hit me. I wasn't controlling. I was totally intimidated and so dependent on the role of wife that I lost sight of the fact that I deserved far better than I got -- not because I am special but because I am a human being. Don't let her blame you for her choices.

She wants to be free. She wants control. And the slighest bit of me taking control or trying to control a situation sends her back. It could be something simple. For example, it snowed today so I asked her if I could bring the kids over so I could go into work (schools were closed). She has the freedom of working from home, so it had always been for her to stay with the children in days like this.

I am not sure if you really did have a control issue, of if she just claimed that (as many do) as her excuse to leave. If you simply asked her to help and she said no - and then you left it at that, then you are doing well. If you continued to push her to take them after she said no, then she would have a reason to be upset at you. We only hear what you tell us, and usually we look at things from your point of view. It's often hard to understand the whole picture without the little cues that people get if they see, and hear the conversation themselves.

You know your past, and you proably know if she has a valid point. Others have given you cues on how tell if there is real control or if it is a ploy on her part. I would have to say that most mothers would understand and accept a request to take the children if it was reasonable. It is common in an A for these kinds of things to happen.

Remember that what she is saying is very common. It could be that she would still come back to you and be very sorry for her actions. We don't know - we can't tell, but we do know that you want to look back and say "I did this right, I treated her with respect and love and I lived my life as I should, no matter how she treated me."

That's how I suggest you look at it. Sure it's next to impossible some days, but what else can you do really? I mean, isn't that where you want to be when this is all over? Either back together, or a a much better person who can do things the right way?

If you feel stressed and she pushes your buttons when you talk to her, study out your responses before you talk to her. Decide what you will say if she refuses your request, say it gracefully, and don't get in any sarcastic comments. Just do the business and hang up. That's the kind of things that make them wonder, and often gets them to think about what they are doing. If you become a better person and no longer argue with her, she just may take another look to see what you are doing. (Perhaps you have already mastered this) If she does not, you get to keep the improvements you make to yourself.

I can tell you wonder about future. It is very seldom that the Lord reveals that to us, most of the time we are just required to have faith that he will turn things to our good, and then continue to live the best life we can. That's what I recommend you do. If you want to set a time limit, you can do that, but set up some kind of plan so that you will know when you are finished, and not just do it becasue you are tired of waiting for her.

We feel for you - we care, and may God be with you to help you know what to do.

SS

<small>[ January 26, 2004, 10:31 PM: Message edited by: still seeking ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by MelodyLane:
<strong> P.S. I think women who complain about people "controlling" them need to grow some balls. A person can only be "controlled" with their own consent. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'd say by leaving her H for another man, she withdrew consent.

Solon don't you find it interesting how the one spous that lies and deceives calls the unsuspecting spouse 'controlling'. If I had a dollar for every time a WS calls the BS controlling, I'd be financially set for life. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

Yeah, you're right, toomuch. They say it all too often.

She never told me "no" about the children. She just was upset that I asked. She had plans and I got in the way of them and instead of saying, "I was hoping for a full day alone with Randy so we can screw while watching the snow fall" she came at me with "you're controlling the situation by putting the kids on me when it's your day". I responded by apologizing and saying, "the next time it snows, no matter who the kids are with, I will take off and stay with them." I asked her if that was okay with her and she said, "yeah".

I really feel sorry for her. The rationalizations she must have to make in order to just sleep at night. The delusions she must have to concoct just to be able to smile during the day. It's a shame. And it's unfair! All of her anger that is coming from living this adulterous lifestyle, away from family and children, is directed at me! So she will never come back to me because in her twisted mind I am the cause of her anger. Even when her current affair ends the anger (directed at me mind you)from the guilt of having the affair in the first place will keep her from coming back to me. She is angry at me! I guess that is why plan b is so important. If I separate myself from her totally, giving her full authority to destroy her own life, then maybe she'll see. But the children remind her that they are sad, daddy is not happy, and they miss her. So her anger continues to be misdirected.

I really doubt she will ever come to a point where she is ready to reconcile due to her own demons. Ugh!

In most cases the WS that leaves the BS demonizes the BS in order to justify the unjustifiable.

Solon -
My H blamed me for his A and was so angry that I wouldn't leave Sophia alone that he broke my arm.

Two years later, there still is anger at me, but one encouraging thing he said was "I feel a lot better about myself than I did two years ago."

In two years, when the fog clears, your W may realize that you were not the reason why she had an affair. In the end, it was her choice, and she needs to be responsible for it.

While I don't consider your behavior (from what you've written) to be controlling, I do believe that involving the children in the way that you described is probably very hurtful for both your children and your wife.

I'm not certain how old your children are, but if they have to ASK what they NEED to tell mommy, my guess is that they are not old enough to emotionally grasp the reality of the situation.

I'm guessing that they HURT. BIGTIME. Telling them one parent is WRONG (or doing "bad" things) probably isn't helping them whatsoever <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> ... and therefore is probably best avoided.

My suggestion: Try using ME or I statements (instead of involving the children) ie: I hurt because mommy moved away. I hurt because mommy and I are fighting. I hurt because mommy wants to spend time away from me.

Be honest with YOUR feelings without attempting to persuade your children to feel exactly as you feel. They love their mommy. I'd almost be willing to bet that they are feeling "caught up" in the middle of both mommy and daddy-- perhaps even fearful that if they say the wrong thing that things won't work out (and perhaps BLAME themselves for the demise of the M).

Please remember to tell your children DAILY AND OFTEN that BOTH their parents love them VERY MUCH and that what is going on in the M is NOT AT ALL A REFLECTION ON THEM... NOTHING that is happening in the M is because of THEM.

Best of luck to you and your family.

Sincerely, ~Marie