i have been married for31/2 years,my wife had an affair with an old lover.she says the affair has ended but now wants to remain freinds but also says she still loves him and always will because he was her first love,but she tells me she wants our marriage to work but there are no gaurantys in life.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> You can recover. Many people have. It isn't easy, and not everyone succeeds, but as long as you are both working on it, your chances are close to 100%. To recover, do three things:

1.) Learn. The most important and helpful single source of information for my wife and I was “Surviving an Affair” by Willard Harley (hereinafter referred to as “SAA”) available at the Bookstore, Amazon.com, and bookstores all over. SAA is THE best book on the market for helping one get to the root of “the message of the affair” (BUT YOU HAVE TO DO THE QUESTIONAIRES!). It (along with the Basic Concepts section of this site) is also helpful for giving you a vision of what a great marriage should look like. The approach of SAA to this problem is that the best defense against affairs is to have a great marriage. My wife said we had a good marriage, but she still had an affair. She was kidding herself, but it was not until we read SAA and saw what a great marriage should look like that we could clearly identify the problem areas and had the tools necessary to fix them. So that you can get started right away, while waiting for SAA to arrive in the mail, read everything in the Basic Concepts section of this site. Next, read all the Q&A's on infidelity on this site. They are found at How to Survive Infidelity

The phrase “the message of the affair” is from the book “Torn Asunder”, by Carder (hereinafter referred to as “TA”). I personally think this is the best book on affair recovery we have read. In particular it deals with the two different paths the recovery of the betrayed spouse (BS) and the wayward spouse (WS) need to take, and deals w/ remorse in a way that I prefer to SAA. Read it together, if your spouse is willing. If not, go through it yourself. If you or your spouse has issues with control, you might also want to read “The State of Affairs”, (SOA) by Todd Mulliken, which also treats the remorse issue similarly to TA. SOA also deals with "the vision thing" for marriage, which is neglected in SAA.

2.) See a marriage counselor. This is hard. You need help. These boards are populated by amateurs. MC’s are professionals. There is a difference. They can help deal with issues the books don’t cover, and customize things to your individual situation. That said, there are lots of bad MC’s in the world. Read, and take to heart, How To Find A Good Marriage Counselor. You do not want an MC that is going to teach you how to live with an awful spouse, or how to adjust to divorce. Too many of them do, as is documented here: Hazardous Counseling. Reading that link may scare you off counseling, but it should give you some good ideas to ask a potential MC before you start w/ them, so you can avoid those that give you the wrong answers. You need one that is committed to helping couples have great marriages, and knows how to do that.

You are on an emotional rollercoaster right now, and there will be times that you will think it would be best to just divorce your spouse and go on with your life. Though there are no guarantees, recovery IS possible, but it takes time and effort. You will hate yourself if you don't do everything you can to make that happen. Give yourself the time you need.

3.) I understand that you may not be a person of faith, but for me, getting my spiritual life in order was crucial. As I said, this is hard. I knew I would need all the help I could get. Repenting of the habitual sins in my life let me stop pushing God away so I could hold on for dear life. I had to humble myself and ask Him what I had done wrong, and what I could do to be the husband He wanted me to be for his child, my wife. This was not about blaming myself. It was about doing what I could to do my part in having a great marriage. My wife could participate or not, but I had to know I had done everything I could do. It also helped me to let go of thinking about what SHE needed to do, since I couldn't control her, anyway.

You might also want to read through: WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses, but keep in mind that these are the writings of amateurs. Get the books, read the articles, and see a GOOD counselor - you need the best help you can get.

Of course, that is just my opinions and what worked for me, who experienced it once, first hand. Harley, who has helped HUNDREDS of couples through this process, lays out his program in the following link: How to Survive Infidelity You will find that I mostly followed his plan. It works. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Welcome to MB hurting&scared.

Your W needs to have NC (No Contact) with the OM, and this is for life. Once a certain line is crossed no friendship can exist. That was over when the EA/PA stated.

Both of you need to read Surviving an Affair, and His Needs/Her Needs.

I would also look for a MC (Marriage Councilor)

Keep being open and honest about what your thinking and feeling. Keep talking to her.

Also if your W wants to have her post here. She can get a lot of support and advice here.

As for yourself keep posting, and reading on this site. Vent here, it helps to vent your anger somewhere else other than at your W. Lets a little of the pressure off.

Welcome to the place no one wants to be. But it is very lucky you found us. Start reading all of the information here. Your wife is in the typical fog - don't take what she says personally. As you read here you will see there is a routine pattern that they all go through, and many even use the same words.

Start reading about Plan A. Try to adopt it as your Plan. It is tough when this happens, but I promise you things will get better. Keep posting and reading.

thank for your reply,i am new at this and are not sure how to use the system and i am a very slow typer[beginner] also pc beginner.i am so scared my marriage wont work because the om is still in the picture ,she says thats not a problem that she is in control and i have to trusr her and that nothing will happen,she said she would leave the marriage first. i need all the help i can get thank you so much

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> she says thats not a problem that she is in control </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She is either lying to herself (likely) or lying to you ( <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> also likely). She has betrayed you, why should you trust her? She has to earn the trust back that she has destroyed. No contact with the OM is not optional, it is essential. Recovery is impossible without it. As for trust: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> As far as I can discern there is really only one approach to re-establishing trust, and a couple of well-established ways to get there. In both cases, the bottom line is: believe their actions, not their words, at least until you have seen a consistent pattern of their words and actions being aligned for a period of many months. That necessarily means you have to be more involved in their lives so that you have the ability to verify that their actions and words are cohesive.

The path to get there, according to Willard Harley, is to have no secrets from each other, and to use the Policy of Joint Agreement (POJA) in all your decisions. Once you see your spouse consistently use the POJA, and the two of you have learned to understand each other and communicate with each other well enough to implement it, you will trust them when they are out of sight, too. Perhaps ironically, one thing that will convince you of your spouse's honesty is if they tell you things they know will hurt, instead of lying or keeping silent to "protect" you. So this process will likely not be painless, especially since, if you are like most couples, it will require learning a new way to communicate. Change is hard.

A second path, promoted by Carder in “Torn Asunder” (and the younger Harleys, too, I think), is for the WS to really dig in to the "WHY?" of the affair, and in gaining that self-understanding, communicate to you both why it happened, and how they will change their behavior in ways that you can verify and that will prevent them from having another.

Of course, these two paths are not mutually exclusive. I view them as complementary, and think “Surviving an Affair”, by Harley is extremely helpful in figuring out important parts of the why, at least as far as the answer involves unmet Emotional Needs, and it almost always does, especially for a woman who has an affair.

The fallacy is the belief that unmet EN’s “cause” affairs. If that was the case, I would have had the affair, not my wife, because my EN’s were less well met in our marriage than hers.

Unmet EN's do not cause affairs, they cause lousy marriages. If you read Harley thoroughly and carefully, he does not say unmet EN's cause affairs, either, though it is a so common a misconception among his readers that I would say he should do some re-writing of his material. Reading SAA, it can be easy to conclude that unmet needs are the reason for affairs. Not so. Affairs are entirely the responsibility of those involved, and the reasons vary.

Our MC worked w/ Bill Harley for 8 years, and according to him, in about 80% of MEN'S affairs unmet EN's had very little to do with it. Yes, there were usually unmet EN's in their marriages, because no marriage is perfect. But, having the wife find out about and meet his most important EN's did not stop the affairs from re-kindling or stop the husband from having another. Harley is aware of this, which is why his plan for recovery is a lot more complicated than: 1.) Take the EN questionnaire. 2.) Meet your spouse’s EN's. Our MC said that in his opinion, for that 80%, if the wife had been meeting the husband's top 5 EN's PERFECTLY, the husband still would have had the affair. If you want to learn more, read "The State of Affairs", by Todd Mulliken particularly the chapter on "The Double Life Man". Though the percentage of women who have this type of affair is small, it is not zero. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

thanks john39 but what should i do if i tell her to stop all contact with him,she will say i am controling her and nobody will ever do that and she will leave.i never ever ever ever want that to happen i love her so deeply

thanks john39 but what should i do if i tell her to stop all contact with him,she will say i am controling her and nobody will ever do that and she will leave.i never ever ever ever want that to happen i love her so deeply

what should i do if i tell her to stop all contact with him,she will say i am controling her and nobody will ever do that and she will leave.
How do you KNOW she will leave. Even if she says that, it doesn't mean she will.

i never ever ever ever want that to happen i love her so deeply
Then you are happy with her continuing her affair?

thanks chris but what happens if she does leave,ido not know if i can handle the pain,i am so scared right now and my mind is going about 1000 miles per hour.

but what happens if she does leave,ido not know if i can handle the pain
You really think she would leave simply because you say, "Honey, I'm not happy with you having contact with mr. jerkface. You had an affair with him and it hurts knowing you are still in contact"?

If she did/does leave, it's not because the question is asked. It's because she's having an affair.

ido not know if i can handle the pain

You need to read the links below.
Also, I recommend you get & read "Surviving An Affair" by Dr Willard Harley.

but what happens if she does leave,ido not know if i can handle the pain
You really think she would leave simply because you say, "Honey, I'm not happy with you having contact with mr. jerkface. You had an affair with him and it hurts knowing you are still in contact"?

If she does leave, it's not because the question is asked. It's because she's having an affair.

ido not know if i can handle the pain
Did you ever step on a nail? Hurt like heck to pull it out but no way could you leave it in your foot.

You need to read the links below.
Also, I recommend you get & read "Surviving An Affair" by Dr Willard Harley.

Don't tell her to stop all contact. Ask her. Every time she contacts him, tell her how you feel about it. Let her know how her actions are affecting you. As long as she is in contact with him, ESPECIALLY as a "friend" (some friend - what kind of friend asks you to betray your spouse?!?!?), the affair is continuing, even if "only" on an emotional level (actually, that is the most serious part, because that is the part that will keep her emotionally closed off from you at some level, and will prevent a complete recovery). You might try reading "Not Just Friends" by Shirley Glass as part of your recovery. She deals with both emotional affairs and physical affairs in the book. Your wife is still in an Emotional Affair, but does not yet see it.

Given that the affair is continuing, perhaps you should be in Plan A: </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If your spouse is NOT willing to work on your marriage, is denying involvement in an affair despite the evidence, and/or is continuing an affair, read What Are Plan A and Plan B? after reading the "Basic Concepts" links below. In that case, you need to start Plan A with the help of a marriage counselor (see item #2, below). There are a couple terrific posts about Plan A that are worth reading at: Plan A, Doormats and Love Busters by Zorweb and Cerri on Plan A, which will help you avoid some of the common pitfalls. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

thankyuo john39 i talked to her tonight but i already told her if you u want us to work he cant be in the picture but she says she dont know if she can stay away ,what should i do?

Plan A, probably followed by Plan B. When the WS is not willing to give up the OP, then Plan B becomes necessary. So, since she is not willing to give him up now, I would not assume in advance that Plan A will work by itself. Assume you will eventually need to go to Plan B - though whether or not that will actually be necessary is something you will find out as time goes by.

Now, in the meantime, I would read "Survivng an Affair" and "Torn Asunder" together. One chapter at a time, discussing it as you go. Do all the included exercises. That may be enough to convince her of the necessity of no contact. I know that both of those books have convinced some WS's of the necessity of NC. In our case, reading SAA was not enough, but it made my wife more receptive when the MC said the same thing. Then reading TA after just re-inforced the message. As I've said, I have heard "Not Just Friends" by Glass is a great book (Harley even likes it! - and he is not given to praising other people who work in this field), so maybe you should read that together instead, or first, or in addition to the other two. I Haven't read it myself, so can't really say if it would be a good idea in your case. Mybe you should start another thread titled something like "Would reading 'Not Just Friends' be helpful?". There are several posters here who have read it and could comment.