Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
R
Junior Member
Junior Member
R Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
I have been plan A ing for several months without the portion of revealing my WW's A to anyone. I think the A has been going on for about 1.5 yrs and guess what, while contact slowed considerably, she has not ended the A.

I am at the point that I want to tell OM's W. We have been making some progress in our R despite of the A and I don't want to lose it with W being mad at me for telling OM's W. I believe if I gave my W an ultimatum, she would stay in the M but I don't want to directly force her to do this. The following scheme doesn't fit with MB honesty but here goes.

I am fairly certain of when WW meets OM at his house. Its in a suburban neighborhood. I was thinking of having a female friend call OM's W as a concerned neighbor, but anonymusly "because her husband doesn't want them to get pulled into this". This "neighbor" would say that she seen a women in a red car go into the house twice now. She might even give OM's W the license plate number. OM's W could confront OM or use the plate number to do a little detective work on her own and figure out the women in the car is from OM's workplace.

Is this to far to go to avoid a LB?

Also, W has went to lengths to conceal this A which started at work from her coworkers and boss. I think if OM's W threatened to broadcast the A at their workplace if there was any further contact, W would have a big incentive to end the A.

Thank you,

Will in Maine

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,166
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,166
Nope. Just tell the OM's wife directly. Your wife will be mad, because it threatens her addiction. She will get over it, if you recover. She may not if you don't. But it will not be the deciding factor. If you recover, she will eventually come to see it not as an LB, but as "fighting for your marriage" - which is what it is. Why would you want to avoid that? By not telling you are keeping their secret, which is enabling their affair - in other words, by not telling you are a party to the behavior that is destroying BOTH of your marriages.

Have you confronted the OM? </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> A word about confronting the OP, when a WS is unwilling to end an affair on their own, because this question comes up a lot, and many people advise that you avoid confronting the OP, because discussions between BS’s and OP’s tend to be unhelpful and painful for the BS. I do not suggest having much of a discussion. I DO suggest confronting the OP, and also informing the OP’s spouse or girlfriend or boyfriend of what you know, if they have one. If the OP’s spouse/friend is likely to be violent, you may want to hold off on that exposure, but that is the only exception I know of, other than a message from God.

The confrontation of the OP is fairly important, and should be worded carefully. Given the emotional state you are probably in right after you learn of an affair, that usually means doing it by letter or email, or maybe a phone call. I do not recommend direct confrontations because of the strong temptation you may have to become physically violent.

Whatever method you use to communicate, say something like: “I love [spouse], and am trying to fix what is wrong with our marriage. I believe your relationship with [spouse] is interfering with our efforts to fix our marriage, and I would appreciate it if you would cease all contact with [spouse].” If you are CERTAIN it is a physical affair, you can use the word “affair”, instead of “relationship”. If you have children, you may also say that the OP is contributing to the destruction of a family.

They may laugh at you, but it is important to send that message, respectfully, for several reasons:

1. Because the OP may not know the WS is married. If that is the case, confronting the OP sometimes leads immediately to the end of the affair.
2. Because WS’s usually (almost always?) depict their spouse in a negative way to the OP. They say things like: “My wife doesn’t understand me” or “My husband won’t talk to me”, “My spouse is unconcerned about me and/or our marriage” or “We have an open relationship”, or something worse – you are crazy, controlling, cruel, etc. So, you need to confront the OP in a way that shows you at your best – not crazy, not unconcerned, not controlling, not angry, but rather calm, kind, purposeful, determined and concerned for your spouse and your relationship with them. When you do that, it introduces conflict into their relationship, because there is a conflict between what the OP experiences, and what they have been told.
3. Many WS’s and OP’s minimize the seriousness of their affairs with rationalizations like: “It’s only physical”, or, in the case of an Emotional Affair, “It’s just a close friendship” and “It’s not physical.” The language I have suggested avoids giving them a point to argue, and simply says it is hurting you.
4. In most cases, affairs grow in secret, and they die when exposed.


Remember that affairs are addictions. What happens when you try to take away an addict's fix? Frequently, they get angry. It is fairly common for a WS to get EXTREMELY angry when you expose their affair and confront the OP, and accuse you of trying to destroy them and your marriage and of being a horrible human being, so be prepared for an angry response. It is not a lovebuster, it is fighting for your marriage. You are doing nothing horrible. They are. You are fighting to save your marriage. They are destroying it. You are telling the truth. They are being deceitful. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 8,016
C
Member
Member
C Offline
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 8,016
We have been making some progress in our R despite of the A
No, you have not been making any progress.

and I don't want to lose it with W being mad at me for telling OM's W
If the om gets out of her life IN ANY WAY, you will get the blame, so why not get blamed for something you actually do.

OM's W could confront OM or use the plate number to do a little detective work on her own and figure out the women in the car is from OM's workplace.
That’s assuming the om’s wife would do something about it. Especially since it would be anonymous, the om wife would probably blow it off or ask him about it, he’d lie and that would be the end of it.

Is this to far to go to avoid a LB?
Plan A is not about avoiding LBs at ANY cost.

Also, W has went to lengths to conceal this A which started at work from her coworkers and boss. I think if OM's W threatened to broadcast the A at their workplace if there was any further contact, W would have a big incentive to end the A.
It NEEDS to be broadcasted to the om’s wife, to her work and to all your friends before it will end.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 351
G
Member
Member
G Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 351
Pick up the phone and call OM wife.

Your WW will go nuts of course. It will be all your fault etc.

Stay focused and calm as the seas will become very rocky for a little while. And remember be loving and hold your ground.

Be prepared that your WW my leave or threaten to leave because of your actions. If this happens I would suggest telling her that you love her and want to continue working on your marriage but if she feels she needs to move out then OK.

good luck and remember JMHO

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
W
Member
Member
W Offline
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
Add my vote to the others.

You are WAY late in doing this.

I suggest you go in person to tell OM's W. Knock on the door. Take any hard evidence you may have such as cell phone bills or e-mails or letters. Write down the URL of this website and give it to her.

By NOT spilling the beans, you are participating in the affair.

Yep, she'll be madder than a wet hen. Think of it as one step backwards for a potential HUGE leap forward.

And do not underestimate the bizarre things that your W or OM may do as a result of being outed.

One last suggestion: If you can do it quickly, consider having a session with Steve Harley BEFORE you loosen this thermonuclear device. If you can't do this quickly, don't delay.

Once this step is done, consider spilling the beans to her family and your close friends. But let us know what happens after the first bombing run first.

And, read the link in my sig line and the very important imbedded links - they speak directly to this topic.

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
R
Junior Member
Junior Member
R Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
Thank you for the advice. I did have a session with Steve Harley. He is great by the way. He suggests that I first approach my WW with:

"The path we are following right now doesn’t seem to be working. I don’t see us becoming happier as a couple with what we are doing. I’m looking for options or ideas as to what we might try to turn our marriage around. Keep in mind, I’m not looking to dive head first into a solution. I’m just looking for a path that may lead us closer together and hoped you might have some ideas."

Steve said not to expect much but then in a couple of days to ask her

"I was thinking about what I asked you a couple of days ago and I really need a sense of direction that looks like it could lead us to being happy in our marriage together. Are you open to looking into alternative ideas."

Steve suggested I ask her this several times over the period of a couple weeks for her input and tell her

"I’m talking to this counselor who is really helping me get a better understanding of things I could have done differently in the past and things I need to be working on now. He seems to be objective, fair and has our best interests in mind. Would you be open to giving him a try once and after you talk with him we can decide if we want to continue with him or look at something else."

Basically, lovingly & repeatedly approach WW with getting her input on fixing the M. If she doesn't respond then Steve feels contacting OM's W is the next option. Steve wants me to really plan A my butt off so when the dust settles from the exposure W will feel there is still some safety in the M.

Thank you again & I'll keep you posted

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,166
J
Member
Member
J Offline
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 2,166
Yeah, Steve is a lot less hard-core about exposure than his dad is - but even Steve says you should do it in two weeks if nothing changes. I will say that if your spouse believes you to be a controlling person, exposure does have a greater possibility of backfiring, but you don't strike me that way.

Did he say anything abut confronting the OM?

<small>[ January 29, 2004, 10:29 AM: Message edited by: johnh39 ]</small>

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,042
D
Member
Member
D Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 3,042
Hi R,
I like Steve's approach much better than my singing telegram idea (Sorry, but that was the first thing I thought of when I read the title of your thread <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). Give her a few days to mull these questions, then deal with OMW directly, with evidence in hand. Good luck in Plan A. I'm sorry, and please take care - Dru

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
R
Junior Member
Junior Member
R Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
Well I had an interesting conversation with my WW. In following Steve Harley's advice I am slowly pressuring W with getting us on a path to becoming happier. I asked her for ideas and as expected she didn't have any ideas. I told her I would check with her in several days to see it she had any. Later that day W says she thought about it and I'm missing the big picture. She says she has to deal with the loss of trust between her, me, her mom and sister. Her mom and sister deduced on thier own that W was having problems and talked to me. I told W and she got pissed. She says what her mom, sister and I did was worse that her A and didn't feel that her A caused this. FOGHORN<<<<. W said she did not want to see a MC or IC at this time. W then told me she couldn't give me anything else at the time. I told her I was willing to give her time if the A is ended. She then told me numerous times it was over. I know she spent time at his house about 10 days ago.

Any way, I'm going to monitor the situation and bring up the issue several more times.

In contrast, this weekend, W and I spent the morning in bed planning a summer vacation to hawaii that W wants to take. W asked her MIL to house sit, now MIL thinks our R is fixed.

I also found out OM is talking to a D attorney and has been giving info to W. This has been typical of him pushing their R. I'm not sure if this take any wind out of exposure to OMW. I am now getting to the point of skipping this exposure and the associated LBs and giving my wife the following ultimatum:
**************************
Dear W,

While thinking about this letter, the memory of seeing you appear in the doorway at the end of the aisle in church in your beautiful dress, with your pretty smile and those sparkling blue eyes came vividly back into focus. I had all I could do to hold back the tears then and now 12 years later I find myself trying to hold back my tears again, only for a much different reason.

I have come to the realization that our problems are likely not going to get any better by just waiting for something to happen. I have a real fear that we will make small improvements only to have them washed away by our reactions to the tension that seems to be running so high between us. The past months have led to loss of trust not just between us, but with your Mom and Sister. These are relationships that meant a lot to you. I don’t want to see that trust take anymore of a beating than it has and I especially don’t want to see the trust crumble between anyone else in this family.

I’m running out of things to try in order to “fix” our relationship. I’ve finally realized that I have little chance, with our 14 years of ups and downs together, of competing with the excitement that a new relationship can bring. I get my hopes up when I see other couples recovering from what we have been through and falling in love with each other again. But they, after taking the painful steps of giving up the relationship that threatened their marriage, are rebuilding together. After eight long months, I’ve come to the realization that as much as I want this marriage to work, I cannot fix it on my own. Enclosed with this letter is something that meant so much to me, my wedding ring. It saddened me deeply taking it off for what could be the last time.

You know I do not want this family to break up, however I don’t see how it can survive without us upholding the promises we both made on the day we slid rings on each others fingers and started our family. I am willing to put a lot of effort into listening to what your dreams are, giving you the best family life possible and to uphold the promises I made 12 years ago. If you are willing to make an effort at rebuilding our marriage and can once again uphold the promises you made, I would be honored to have you place this ring back on my finger.

I feel a bit taken back by putting a time limit on this, but I’m not sure how waiting is going to help things. If my finger is bare on next Friday, I’ll have to take that as the end for us and we will have to start discussing how to break this to the kids. If however, you give the sparkle of that ring back to my finger, you will have a man that would be honored to make sure the beautiful girl who first put this ring on my finger is loved, cherished and honored once again.
****************************
I would definitely need all my ducks in a row and be prepared to deal with either choice.

I'd say when hit with the reality there is a 75% chance W will choose me.

My biggest issue with the ultimatium is it seems like I might be giving up on the kids happiness that they currently enjoy.

Any Comments?

Will in Maine

Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,903
S
Member
Member
S Offline
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 2,903
That letter is beautiful. Is this a Plan B Letter? It may need stronger language.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If you are willing to make an effort at rebuilding our marriage and can once again uphold the promises you made, I would be honored to have you place this ring back on my finger.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">To cut through the fog you need to be very specific about asking for what is necessary for rebuilding the M.


#1, Uno, Grande...N/C with OM, with a N/C letter and accountability for N/C (change number, move, change jobs, change email, etc)

#2 Counseling, with Steve, or person of her choice, you decide how demanding to be.

These are absolutes and need to be addressed.

Also let her know with this letter what kind of contact you will have with her. Pick a go between so you don't have to converse/confront. Would her sister or mother be a good one?

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
W
Member
Member
W Offline
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
I didn't even read your letter. I stopped as soon as I read "ultimatum" in your post.

I doubt Steve would agree with your "ultimatum" path until Plan B, but I'm willing to be wrong. But I bet Steve would agree that you HAVE to out this to OM's W first.

That said, a Plan A letter is very much in order, and after posting this I'll go back and read your ultimatum letter to see how close it is to a Plan A letter.

So, I suggest you re-read the title of this topic post and return to that project.

WAT

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
W
Member
Member
W Offline
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 10,060
OK, I read your letter and you have a real good start on a Plan B letter - but you're not there yet. Very simply, you're not separated yet - not that you will be.

Don't take off that ring and hand it to her unless you want it to stay off. If you want to give her a letter, keep the first two paragraphs, then write a couple new ones that express YOUR accountability and YOUR responsibility for the troubles in your marriage and the things YOU are doing to fix them and how sorry YOU are for helping to create this poor marital environment.

WAT

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,196
H
Member
Member
H Offline
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,196
rebuild-

I am sorry you are experiencing this pain. I've been through it as well. It's been a while since I've posted here but your thread caught my attention.

Postponing exposing the affair is not helping anyone.

What are you afraid of? That your wife will get mad at you and not love you anymore? What is she doing right now to you?

Seriously consider exposing the affair. TODAY! Tell her you know that she is having an affair. Enough is enough. My exW and I were being coached by Steve Harley at the time and Steve encouraged me to wait several months before exposing what I knew. I can't tell you how painful that was. It didn't help anyone. In the mean time, my exW got involved with other men.

Of course your WW will be angry. But time to knock her off her comfortable spot. You've been trying Plan A too long.

If you want another 'Harley' opinion, call Steve's dad during his mom's radio show. Find the number through the radio link above.

Watching the affair is not helping you any longer. Time for a new plan. You can be respectful doing this too. No time to be angry.

If your WW wants to know how you know, tell her. Show her the evidence. If denies everything, time to go to relatives, friends, neighbors, etc. Once exposed, affairs usually die very quickly.

Then it is time for a good Plan A. If the affair doesn't end, then you're looking at Plan B.

Good luck.

HoFS

Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
M
Member
Member
M Offline
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 92,985
Likes: 1
rebuildinator, I have to agree with the others about exposing the affair. You have an excellent opportunity to end the affair that you are not using here. I would first try to end the affair by exposing it everywhere, doing damage repair for a few weeks and THEN, if you have to, go into a traditional Plan B.

She has been on the fence for some time and I think that your silence and the extended secrecy connected to the affair has only prolonged it. Blowing the doors off the affair should be a huge help and it will also affirm to her that you have no intention of helping her hide her affair.

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,553
A
Member
Member
A Offline
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,553
Ditto. Sounds like you are doing everything you can to avoid one hard phone call to OM's W.

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
R
Junior Member
Junior Member
R Offline
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 5
Suprise, after nth time of WW telling me it was over, I found out she had been OM house Wednesday after work. It absolutely baffles me how she can come home and talk with me and joke with the kids like nothing is wrong.

She has back problems and was enthuiastically discussing with me how she went for 5 days without back pain. Then when getting home Wed. she said her back hurt. I asked when it started to hurt and she said this afternoon. WOW I wonder what did that?

I will ask her politely one last time, per Steve H, to suggest someways to work through this and tell her I have a hard time with both of us sitting in this state of "emotional numbness", her term, when we could be taking small steps to work through this. WW has told me and her Mom she needs to get stronger. I asked her what that meant and she said she didn't know. I plan on asking her to tell me if I'm wrong in my assumption that part of geting stronger is being able to break away from the situation (Our code word for A). She has told me in the past, not sure whether she was sincere, that A was over in her mind and she just needed to get him to understand that.

If she avoids this then its tell OM W time.

Should I tell OM W everything or just enough to convince her?

Should I tell OM W I'm trying to save my M and suggest sources like MB if she wants to save hers?

My W seems to be quite terrified of exposure of A at work. What should I do with this? Should I get OM W to write my wife a letter threating exposure if there is anymore contact?

WW's position is portable around the area. Should I tell WW's boss and mention the alcohol problem that started about same time as the A in hopes of him transferring W away from OM's office?

Should I tell OM's boss, as OM pursued my W at work and she had to tell him to back off several times. (I regret expecting my W to deal with this on her own) Possible repercussions to OM in the pursuit at work (harrassment) and the fact that A was on company time. OM's office is scheduled for layoffs, it would be great to get him on the list!

Oh and here is a zinger which affects the timing. My StepSon, WW's son found out he is a father of a baby with a girl he broke up with. Girl has been delcared an unfit mother and my son 23 wants to raise the baby. Son told me last week and is going to tell my W this weekend. Is exposure of A to OM W and the baby thing going push my W over the edge? Should I wait a little longer?

Confused but almost glad I found out about ongoing contact so I can take ACTION!

Will

<small>[ February 20, 2004, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: rebuildinator ]</small>


Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 401 guests, and 36 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Limkao, Emily01, apefruityouth, litchming, scrushe
72,034 Registered Users
Latest Posts
Three Times A Charm
by Vallation - 07/24/25 11:54 PM
How important is it to get the whole story?
by still seeking - 07/24/25 01:29 AM
Annulment reconsideration help
by abrrba - 07/21/25 03:05 PM
Help: I Don't Like Being Around My Wife
by abrrba - 07/21/25 03:01 PM
Following Ex-Wifes Nursing Schedule?
by Roger Beach - 07/16/25 04:21 AM
My wife wants a separation
by Roger Beach - 07/16/25 04:20 AM
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,625
Posts2,323,524
Members72,035
Most Online6,102
Jul 3rd, 2025
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 2025, Marriage Builders, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 8.0.0