Hello all,

Things have gone from very bad to terrible as far as trying to save my M is concerned. Yesterday the unthinkable happened. Some of you saw me posting in the morning and then I dropped off the face off thw planet for the rest of the afternoon.

Yesterday morning around 10am my father -in-law called me on my cell. We chatted for a few minutes and then said we'd speak later as I was at work. My boss and I were working in our server room when he told me he heard my phone ringing in my office. My father in law had called back and left a message saying he was headed to his house and would call me back in 20 minutes or so. I just called him back on his cell and asked what was up and if everything was alright.

At this point he said "No everythings not all right" and told me what happened. Yesterday morning my BS got a call from her attorney who's represented her in the custody case involving our daughter. For those of you unaware, my daguhter is technically my step-daughter. Anyway, her attorney told her there was an emergency hearing called by her EX and she needed to get to the courthouse in like 15 minutes. By time my BS got to the courthouse the hearing had been held and her EX has been given temporary custody of our daughter. My BS had to turn over our daughter to her EX last night at 6pm.

This is absolutly my BS's worst nightmare come true. Her EX used the domestic violence charges that I had filed against my BS as a basis that she is a violent person. Coupled with fabricating some things, he and his attorney convinced the judge to take our daughter out of the home. I'm worried for my BS. When I say this is her worst nightmre come true I mean it.

Now after speaking with my father in law, I went and told my boss what was going on and that I needed to go home and that I wouldn't be able to finish the day. I explained what was going on (he knows about the A and is being very understanding)and that I just couldn't function and do my job. I went home and waited for my phone to start ringing, which I knew it would.

Halfway to where I'm staying my mother in law called. She asked if I knew what had happened. I told her I did and I was headed home at the time. She asked from where and I told her "work". I told her she knew how I felt about my SD and what her biological father taking her meant to me. She said she understood and always knew I loved my SD. I cried for a few minutes and asked her when they were taking my SD. She told me the order from the courts said that she had to be handed over at 6pm. I then asked my MIL if she would call my BS and ask if I could talk with my SD before she was given to her biological father. She said sure, call ya right back.

Well, my MIL calls me back and tells me to call at 5pm at my families house and I can talk to her. I call at 5 and my BS answers. SHe tells me she wants me to talk with my SD but do not hang up as she wants to speak with me. I say ok and spend about 10 minutes on the phone with my SD. When she and I finish, I tell her to give the phone to mommy and brace myself. Everyone here has told me that if my BS's relationship with my SD was comprimised I'd have an even harder time convincing my BS to reconcile.

Here's where I need seasoned MB advice. My BS got on the phone and was very... Submissive. Thats not the best word to use... but a better way to put it would be that because of her love for her daughter, she approached me in the most non-confrontational manor and begged me not to help her EX take her daughter. I told her over and over that I was not, would not, and will not help her EX to take her daughter. I told her that it was not about her and me, that I was not helping her to keep her daughter for her or for me, but I was helping her keep our daughter in the home for our daughter and her brothers. Nothing more, nothing less. I reiterated my commitment to saving our marriage and that I did not want a divorce. She told me she understood and that her attorney was moving to have the temporary protection order dropped so we could talk and I could help her.

I need to know how to approach the situation, She told me when the TPO is gone she wants to see me right away. I'm feeling she needs emotional support right now and I so want to be there for her. I do not want to manipulate the situation. Please give me advice on things to consider, and ways to approach it... Stepping out of the office for a bit, will be back in a while and repond to anyone who has posted... thanks

-2soon

wise2...

I don't nothing about this legal chaos..

but can you contact your attorrney and let him know what is going on...

who is saying you two can't see eachother...
and isn't that really only the case if you try to see your wife...like she is the only one who would contact the police to say you are there...
or vica-versa...

really if you two were to meet to talk...who in heavens name would know or care...

AND...
can't you go to a lawyer/judge....and get some things documented/notairzed how you really feel this just got out of hand...and you feel that she is no threat danger to anyone...

who says you can't see eachother...
and who would enforce it if you did...

your wife is probably terrified of you...and your ability to have her lose her daughter...
you have said that you don't want her to lose her daugther...
so even if "this" is just an act being nice to you to get her daughter back...that's still your fault and the risk you took...

she may turn around and divorce you down the road...but if you really believe as you have stated daughter should be with mom...then that's the route you take...regardless of what happens between you two down the road...

call your lawyer and see what if anything you can do to help her in her case and get your stupid charges erased..

ark...

What a mess. Someone - probably you needs to get to court and explain the DV charges were caused by YOU cheating on her.

Meet your wife at a neutral place and give her some support NOW. Also get into some counseling together so that when she goes to court she can prove that the issues are being addressed. That will be the best way to get daughter back.

Ark,

She's very afraid of her EX's family seeing us. She's been indicating that she doesn't want a divorce but I know thats dependant on the situation with her daughter. I want the chaos to stop.

I've contacted her attorney whos representing her for the criminal case, he's the one who needs to file a motion to have the TPO dropped or modified so we can speak. When on the phone with BS yesterday she told me she had already spoken with him and he would be filing the motion sooner as opposed to later. ( I tried to get it removed right after I recanted my statement that caused her to be charged. She told him to hold off as she didn't want to speak to me...)

I want to be there for her to give her support. If things were not chaotic and her EX did this, that is where I would be. So one question would be, Is it ok to try and meet her EN for emotional support right now and if so, how would you seasoned MB'ers reccomend reaching out. I truly am worried about her. This is her worst nightmare come true.

Another thing to note: She stated that she wanted to see me as soon as the TPO was dropped. I can admit that my EN for sexual intamacy is very great and she knows this. I acknowledge that right now her maternal instincts are her primary driving force and like any parent she will do anything to get her child back. She knows she needs my cooperation to do this. If she decides to approach me sexually (I'm going off of our past history of break up -make up) as much as I want to. I don't know what the irght thing to do is. I do not want to manipulate the situation. The focus has shifted from my A to the current situation and I don't know what to do or how to do it.

-2soon

wise2soon,

Be there for her problem thats all you can do. What would you do if your sister in this situation ?. About SF and all ... what the heck is on your mind (2x4) ?. tsk tsk tsk. She has a mess in her life and you should focus on giving her support ... regardless what you might or might not get anything from her.

Good luck -rh-

OK,

As usual I'm not getting my point accross. So let me ask specific questions that I need specific answers to.

Is it ok to try to be there to fill her EN for emotional support?
If it is ok, how would you reccomend reaching out to her to let her know I am available if she chooses?

I reminded her yesterday on the phone that I was doing this irregardless what she decided to do as far as our marriage is concerned. I can say that withing my M there were control issues. Whats going on and her reaction to it and the way she is dealing with me at the moment is a control issue. She feels threatened and is allowing me to be in control because I could influence the outcome greatly. I am going to advocate for her daughter being returned to her no matter what she decides to do. How do I communicate to my BS this issue of control and that I still ackowledge my betrayal and need for accountability for the A? What I mean by this is that she's not focusing on me and my wrong doings at all now. I don't know how to approach this issue of control and would like advice.

On the whole SF thing... (think you are refering to Sexual Fantasy when you say SF) I put this in here because I'm looking at where my BS and I have repeated the patterns over and over... She's gone from not wanting to even thinking of me to wanting to see me as soon as the protective order is dropped/modified. We have a history of sexual activity as we move from not speaking/I'm outta the house to the we need to talk and want to work it out stage. Do I deny that I want to be with my wife sexually? HELL NO. What I'm asking is what is the most healthy response I should give to the situation if it presents itself. I honestly do not know what the right thing would be to do if she approached me in this manner. So hypothetically speaking, given the current situation; what do I do if my BS approaches me wanting sexual intimacy, keep in mind I have no clue as to what her motivations in doing this would be. I would not know if she was doing it to manipulate me so I would be less likely to screw her over with her daughter or if she were doing it because she needs her EN for sexual intimacy filled. Please advise/comment

-2soon

SF is sexual fullfillment..as identified as an emotional need to be filled/nurtured by our spouse and for our spouse...


Let's see if I get what you are saying...

what I get is that deep down you are terrified that your wife will leave you..
but right now based on her fear of losing her daughter she is acting differently ...

and part of you is afraid that this is an act...
could be but so what.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

you absolutely 1000000% should try to meet your wife's needs...
without doubt
without question...

I think it is fair to say that the affair and the potential loss of daughter can not both be addressed aggressively at the same time...so that she may act differently to get over this crisis and then change her tune...
get used to it...BS and WS change their tune all the time...part of the roller coaster..
part of the exact out come of your affair..
hang on
buckle up


Sexual fullfillment during reconcilliation is a personal choice...
yours and hers to make..
some people after d-day have increased sexual activity for whatever reasons..
and others have none to less..

that is always your own personal call...follow your gut...if it feels really wrong then talk about it...

again wise2 you are getting sucked in to thinking to much about her motivations...there is no crystal ball to say the definite outcome of this...

be kind
be remorseful
be honest
be accountable
be there as she needs you to be...

let go of why she wants you to be these things...and be the things that are the right things for a husband and for someone who cares about her to be....

you can't be manipulated without your own consent..
you can't be controlled without your own consent...

do what is the thing for a decent human being to do...
ark

2soon

SF is sexual fulfillment

My advice would be to let her be the driving force for SF. Be honest and open with her. If your worried that it is happening for the wrong reasons, talk to her about it. Communication.


What you need to do is be there for her to lean on. And by being there for her you are meeting EN's. That doesn't stop because of the situation. Your there for her even if you get nothing in return. Support her to the best of your ability. Do what you can for her now and show by your actions that you Love her.

OK,

I gotta say ark, you have to have been there, done that, got the T-shirt or you're a professional. You are 100000% correct in your statements about how I'm feeling about the whole mess.

I've decided that if she approaches me sexually I will return any affection she sends my way (the gaping hole thats in that ENs place probably would overide any other EN.) I plan on communicating my concerns in regards to the current situation as far as acknowledging that we cannot focus our attention on dealing with both and be effective. I will emphasize that I want to be there for her any way she'll let me.

I do not want to screw this up. Can anyone give me advice on how to reach out to her to offer my support? I know this sounds juvenille but I honestly do not know how to approach her. I feel that however I reach out, I should emphasize my love for her and desire to be there for her. With this I feel that I should remind her of my need to be accountable for the A. I feel I should communicate to her my discomfort with the shift of focus, that I am accountable for my actions.

Any advice on how to approach her to offer support would be appreciated.

-2soon

Look what if your SD had died?

Order or no order you would be there for her. Because of the legal entanglement you need to avoid causing her to get in more trouble with the law so let the attornies get things straightened out first.

But I assume you can talk to her so start burning up the phone.

When you see comfort her....forget everything else just comfort her.

You are lucky she isn't absolutely screaming mad at you so be thankful. No she didn't have to react violently but she was provoked by your affair.

Forget the SF unless you are willing to have her think..."geesh I am worried about my daughter and all he is worried about is sex".

I just think its a misplaced priority at this moment...unless its her need not yours.

Wise, forget about the M, forget about SF, focus on doing the right thing. How can you help your W get custody. Everything else is a distant second at best. You don't need to comfort her right now. You need to be the leader and formulate the plan to get her daughter. The first step is to research and locate the absolute best lawyer you can find. Here's a tip; the lawyer is a woman. Get busy. Once this crisis is solved we can address all the other things. Meantime don't over analyze all the other stuff. If W wants to be with you then meet with her. Don't put so much stock in the legal system with regard to the TRO, after all look at how her Ex. manipulated the system.

Well,

I took advice from this thread and others and called my BS this afternoon. She had a call or two come in and I had to call her back but we ended up talking for almost an hour.

During the conversation I stumbled a little bit and tried putting my thoughts and feeling ahead of hers but reigned myself in each time I think. Things I covered while talking with her:

I told her about the no-contact letter I wrote and asked if she wanted to review and send it. To this she aggreed that I could send her a copy of it and she would mail it if it met with her approval.

I offered a sincere apology for the A. I told her that I was just begining to see the hurt it caused and I was working on someday seeing and understanding as much as possible.

I told her of the personal counseling I am going to for my own issues. I touched upon what I've learned insofar as it concerned our marriage. (mainly spoke in broad generalizations)

I told her that I wanted to be there to support her. That I knew that whats happened is the worst possible nightmare that she could envision. I asked that she let me know how, no matter how small I could help her or provide support.

Before we got off the phone we agreed that I would have my boys every weekend for the time being. She said that I needed to be able to spend quality time with them and she needed at least one night to herself. I told her that I appreciated the time with the boys and I was happy to give her a night off. I told her I loved her and I wanted to be there for her in any way she would allow and I would talk to her later. She told me she loved me to and would talk to me later. At some point she said "well, call me tomorrow" It was nice to hear her say that.

So all in all it was an ok conversation.

Next question: Other than the things I said, did I forget anythng I should be covering? I'm keeping it honest and trying to keep from screwing up. I just am not sure on what to say or how to say it.

-2soon

Okies,

Question, BS attorney called the other day and has some stuff he needs me to sign if he's going to file to have the no contact order modified so my BS and I can talk. Ok, we've violated it conciously together but I'm afraid that if it is removed I will scew up.

Let me elaborate: I have a huge fear of not knowing what my BS is going to do. Right now we're in a holding pattern as she needs to deal with getting our DD back form her biological father. The fear of not knowing what she's going to do motivates me to seek out what she plans to do. So far the TPO has served as an effective means for keeping me at a distance giving her time and space. I'm afraid if I go in and sign the papers, I'll be unable to deal with the fear I have of not knowing what she's going to do.

Initially when I recanted my statement and asked that her attorney file to have the order modified so we could talk, her attorney told me it'd be 3 weeks or so before it would be filed. Yesterday his office calls and tells me that they have the paperwork ready to be signed and filed if I can come down and sign the papers. I was in the office and couldn't break away so I said I'd come down today on my lunch. My BS told me yesterday that she had called her atty that morning and told him to file the motion to have the no contact order rescinded or removed.

I have a problem with overanylizing things but I can see she asked her atty initially not to file because she didn't want to have to deal with me so soon after me telling her of the A and having her charged with domestic violence. Now that her daughter was taken she's chomping at the bit to have the order removed. That's ok with me, hell maternal insticts are strong and I ackowledge that.

Here's where I need advice: I should ask her but honoring the TPO kept me from pushing her to make any sort of decision on anything. I can say that yesterday when we talked I tried my best to keep from trying to push her but I know that I did at a low level because I brought up our marital problems. Now, during that conversation I told her that I was not going to helpl her EX keep our DD. I emphasized that if she never believed a thing I've said to her to believe that I would not help her ex. Even to this she could only respond with " I have to hope you wouldn't" So my problem is that she's wanting to talk with me, have contact with me, whatever, to help feel some security that I'm not going to screw her over. Nothing I say will alleviate her worry over what I'm going to do. I've been screaming fsince this began that I do not want a divorce. Why would I do the one thing that would ensure my BS would divorce me? So my problem is "Why sign the papers to have the TPO removed?" Court is 3 weeks away for the domestic violence charges. Everyone involved is on the same page and she will likely have the charges dismissed. I will be charged with a misdemeaner-2 falsefication of a police report either way and get hit with a fine. Court for her daughter is next week on friday, I've told her in the most sincere terms that I am on her side and she has my support. Nothing I can say will make her believe me, so why have the order removed? We are using her mother as a liason for bills and talking with the kids, my feelings and actions as far as dealing with the domestic violence charge and my DD custody are clear as well. She does not seem to be ready to speak on marital issues yet. So why remove the TPO that is forcing me to give her im and space, hell I need time and space for my own issues.

Advise me please, from both BS and WS if possible.

-2soon

Of course she won't trust you right away. Show her you can be trusted by signing it and helping her. Actions are the only thing that work in regaining trust. Most BS's have listened to enough talk.

Your wife needs you, help her.

Well,

I went and signed the motion her attorney is going to file. I feel that my BS needs to be able to reassure herself that I'm not being spiteful and trying to hurt her any further. If anything it will reassure her that I am going to hold true to my word that I would not help her EX take her daughter form her.

I was reluctant to sign it because I'm afraid of screwing up. She needs her time and space and the TPO was forcing me to give it. After I signed the motion I called the house as I knew she'd be picking our DS up from school and would not be home. In my message I let herknow I signed the papers but had no intention of trying to talk with her about any other issues until she was ready. I ackowledged she needs to focus on getting our DD back from her biological father right now and said I would continue to use her mother as a liason for talking with the kids and setting up visitation. I'm pretty sure I made mention of my concerns with keeping myself out of the way and not wanting to make things worse by trying to force the issue out of my fear of not knowing. I also said that I wanted to be there for her if she wanted and that all she had to do was call and I'd listen to what she needed to say. I let her know that while the TPO is still in effect if she needed someone and wanted to talk to me, she could have someone call me and I'd call her so if anyone got in trouble for violating the TPO, it's be me.

So thats how it played out, yesterday after talking with her she had asked me to call her back today. After signing the papers and leaving the message I left, I feel I shouldn't call her but allow her to call me if she wants to talk. Is this how I should handle it?

-2soon

I have a huge fear of not knowing what my BS is going to do.

WELCOME to life my friend...

while this is a legitimate thought...it is soooo out of your power or control...that the only thing...ONLY THING you can do about this one is too
Let go and Let God....
only thing....
other wise you are obsessing, mulling ruminating...
driving yourself (and ME. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) CRAZY

you start by changing your mantra...change it to...
yep my wife may leave me..but the real truth is if that is what she wants....I can't stop her....


I have a problem with overanylizing things

REALLY I DIDN'T NOTICE... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I can see she asked her atty initially not to file because she didn't want to have to deal with me so soon after me telling her of the A and having her charged with domestic violence.

she needed time to regroup and lick her wounds...
totally understandable...

look wise2 you are going to become your own worst enemy in this ...
couple of newsflashes...

1. sometime during some interaction YOU are going to mess up....
yep it's gonna happen...you are going to say the wrong thing...use the wrong inflection, look at her funny.....and so will she at some point...
SO WHAT!!!????
humans don't and won't ever have perfect communication especially when navigating the waters you are...

hundreds have posted here about planning to talk to BS or WS about this or that....and then post about where they said this wrong or that went wrong.... SO WHAT???!!!!

give yourself forgiveness...there is most likely not one difinitive thing you say or do that will cause her to leave you...she will do what she does...period..

Why would I do the one thing that would ensure my BS would divorce me?

you already crossed that line you cheated...

So my problem is "Why sign the papers to have the TPO removed?" Court is 3 weeks away for the domestic violence charges. Everyone involved is on the same page and she will likely have the charges dismissed. I will be charged with a misdemeaner-2 falsefication of a police report either way and get hit with a fine.

you can not be serious about this contemplation...and i am praying your bloodsugar was low or your tie was to tight and cutting off oxygen to your brain....

out of fear of her leaving you you would never keep those bogus charges over her in some semblance of holding on to her...
because if you would seriously do that...
you have already lost her and you....

never think that again..
never tell her that...

ofcurse she doesn't trust you ...you are untrustable....so only move in directions that show you are becoming trustable....

She needs her time and space and the TPO was forcing me to give it.
do you expect me to believe that a crap peice of paper has the power over you to keep you from contacting your wife...and you fear if it's gone than you won't be able to control yourself...

here's a hard question you may want to ponder and excuse my toughness...

if a TPO paper has all this power...why hell didn't your marriage license another piece of paper have enough power over you to keep you from straying...

ok enough beating up on ya...

wise2...
you are not controlling or manipulating in speaking your desire to want to be married to her...
you are not controlling or manipulating in bringing up your regrets about the affair...
you are not controlling or manipulating in talking about changes you want to make in yourself to make this marriage work...

do you get that.......
Change your language to I sentences and I thoughts....
focus on you....

telling someone I want to be married to you is not pushing it is stating a fact....


I feel I shouldn't call her but allow her to call me if she wants to talk. Is this how I should handle it?

husband you said you would call me...and you didn't...see I can't believe a word you said or say....blah blah blah...

or picture this...
ring ring...
hello wife here...
hello wife it's me wise2...
how are you wife...I hope you are well....
blah blah blah...

you cheated on her...
read the posts of betrayed spouses wanting an inkling of a sign that their WS are remorseful and willing to do the work...it's heartbreaking...
don't you dare volunteer to be one of them who say...

I cheated get over it...
for it is cruel cruel cruel.....

drop the controlling and manipulating labels from your lingo...your way of thinking you is starting to convice me that I may be controlling my husband if I cook a meatloaf tonight and manipulate him into eating it.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Send your wife some flowers or something kind and thoughtful through your inlaws....
or when you do the kid exchange send a piece of chocolate or something else she likes...

you cheated
you had her arrested
you best not go belly up and make her do the work....

ARK

Ark,

Dunno if you saw the post ahead of yours but I did go and sign the papaers. When I had done that I called her and left a msg on our machine. (knew she'd be picking son up form school) I told her I signed the papers but had no intention of trying to talk with her about any other issues until she was ready. I ackowledged she needs to focus on getting our DD back from her biological father right now and said I would continue to use her mother as a liason for talking with the kids and setting up visitation. I'm pretty sure I made mention of my concerns with keeping myself out of the way and not wanting to make things worse by trying to force the issue out of my fear of not knowing. I also said that I wanted to be there for her if she wanted and that all she had to do was call and I'd listen to what she needed to say. I let her know that while the TPO is still in effect if she needed someone and wanted to talk to me, she could have someone call me and I'd call her so if anyone got in trouble for violating the TPO, it's be me.

Well, when she got home she called me so I didn't have to worry about calling her. When she called man was she pissed. She had just been served with the papers for the next hearing regarding our DD custody. In the papers she received were all of the allegations her EX made n his complaint seeking custody. She wanted to know what the F**k I said to him and his family immeadiately following her arrest and over the next few days. I answered her questions thoroughly and honestly. She then surprised me by asking a question directly about our marital issues. She asked about a night I went out with my boss if I was really with him. When she asked it was almost funny because I told her I was glad for once she asked me a question and I was able to tell her that I had told the truth...
I spoke to her and thanked her for being there for me a few years ago when I spoke of something terrible that happened to me as a boy for the 1st time ever. I told her I was thanking her because of my relationship wit her, I felt I could trust her to tell her about it and she would not judge me on it. Because I told her I've been able to find the strength to deal with it with a professional. And for the 1st time in my life I'm able to live a bit happier with myself and I had her to thank for it. She really didn't respond but ackowledged my offer of thanks and said she understood. Druing our talk I told her that while she's focusing on our DDs' custody, she could contact me if she needed a shoulder to lean on or for anything. She surprised me by telling me that while I'm looking for answers to my personal issues I could call her if I ever wanted to talk.

I'd never say to her that I cheated and just get over it. She took a small dose of me talking about our marital problems and what I've learned so far about them from my side of the street. Oh yeah!!! She agreed to read SAA if I bought it for her... gotta stop at barnes and noble tonight on the ride home.

I'm getting better at letting go of my need for control and allowing myself to admit my powerlessness over anything that is outside of me. Its getting better, day by day, slowly, but it is.

-2soon