How is this for fun guys...I was at our counselors office, we both have the same facility but differing counselors, and right there in the room they used, which is the same as the one I use, was a board clear as day with my name, her name and instructions on how to begin new relationships with men, how to initiate and nurture new sexual acts in those new relationships and how to leave me. I brought it to the attention of the counselors director, who was shocked that that information was on that board. So, how do you combat that type of instruction to my wife who believes that her counselor is guiding her in her best direction. She looks up to him as an authority figure and she is behaving just like a person who would follow her counselors advice and leave me to start a new relationship.

I would ask the director to intervene immediately.

Unless you are leaving important items out this is really bizarre.

All the statistics say both spouses are better off trying to work out their marriage than end.

Women in particular fair poorly in divorce. They are bitter longer, suffer far greater declines in standards of living and so on.

Why would any counselor encourage her to end her marriage if no effort has been made in repairing it first?

Hey Stunned, the counselor is from the shelter she went into. If you look at my other current thread this will explain why she is in the shelter. They do not know about the affair. I spoke to the director who was "shocked" to say the least. My wife had said the standard montra from the shelter counselors was no matter what leave the husband, do not look back and men never change. Just get on with your life and love someone else. It is the feminist model of counseling. I hope the other thread explains what has truly happened.

All the statistics say both spouses are better off trying to work out their marriage than end.
But what if the ws has done everything to work it out (either in reality or in their mind or maybe this is simply what they told the counselor)?

Why would any counselor encourage her to end her marriage if no effort has been made in repairing it first?
The counselor only know what they are told. And believe it or not, most people at this point did do SOMETHING before getting to the point of filing/affair.
We just failed to see it for whatever reason.
They didn't put much effort into letting us know.
We didn't care at the time.
Many different reasons.

Oh, and also most counselors suck. And since she is in the shelter, most men suck and she left one so he must be the problem.

<small>[ January 28, 2004, 01:11 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Counselors can only help a person do what they want. If a person walked into your office and said "I want to leave my husband and find a relationship with a new man, would you help me?" As an ethical counselor you could either say, "Yes I could" or "No, you'll need to find someone else."

Do you think a counselor is effective getting a person off drugs if they don't want to be? Not at all...counselors can't convince or train someone to do something they don't want to do.

You can't even begin to understand what went into a session just from a board either...perhaps they were going through a pro/con type of scenario, or showing how a fantasy relationship with another man is different from a relationship with a husband.

Remember, your W will find someone to help her do what SHE wants. A counselor is just a tool, not a brainwasher.

One reason to have it CLEARLY in your mind what you WANT AND EXPECT from a counselor BEFORE you go the first time.
You TELL them what you want to achive by going to them. Ask them if they can help you. If they are not sure or don't know, save your time and money and go to another counselor.

Women in particular fair poorly in divorce. They are bitter longer...

Where did you hear that woman are bitter longer? And why would that be?

Women in particular fair poorly in divorce.

The more I think about this statement, the more it irks me...

just

Men surveyed were bitter or resentful up to 3 years after there divorce.

Women on the other had were bitter or resentful up to 10 years after a divorce.

Odds are it has to do with the fact that most men leave the children in the custody of the mother.

Plus more men have affairs so its not a reach by any means to see that divorce is less kind to women than men....even though men will swear divorce favors the woman.

And while it can irk you its not my figures but those of Peggy Vaughn and other noted marriage experts.

<strong>
My wife had said the standard montra from the shelter counselors was no matter what leave the husband, do not look back and men never change.
</strong>

that sort of makes sense.... given that most women in the shelter have possibly been abused and beaten. her counsellor's view of the world is severly selective and geared towards that end.

question: why did she go to the shelter? did she have any reason to go there, based on your past behaviour? this might also impact how the judge will decide on the RO, and what you should bring to the judge's attention

PS, from my personal point of view, what your W's councellor is saying and doing is not only highly unprofessional (client confidentiality!), but also wrong (assuming you dont beat up or abuse your wife). my humble opinion.

Hey guys it is a shelter counselor that is advising my wife and others in group sessions. They left the information on the board and forgot to erase it so when I came in the next day the information was clear as day on the board. To answer the abuse question 2 years ago I kicked my wife under the table. I did not think it was hard but my wife now says it left a bruise (I never saw a bruise and I only remember the kick because my wife said I did it. I would truly admit it if I remembered it but I do not) she used that event from a few years back and that I had thrown a remote control at the tv (When the family was across the house) and I through my keys one time into the kitchen, again they were at the other side of our 5800 square foot home. She enbellished several more acts that she and I both know did not happen but she said she had to 1. Get a restraining order to stay in the shelter and 2. It had to be a serious one to stay for a long period and get a new free apartment. I called my lawyer and he said that since I have never been in trouble with the law they would remove and/or seal the record in 1 year. To me it was no big deal it would allow my wife (Who I offered to put up in another house but she refused) a place to live on her own for 1 year while we decided to work this out or not.
That was the abuse , hand to god, that was the truth even thought I admitted to more to allow my wife and children to not be put onto the street. I not only fell on my sword I fell on hers and did not state anything about her ongoing affair fearing she would lose her new free apartment and resent me and not want to work on our marriage because of it. But now I feel I have cut my own throat and think I should tell the judge the whole truth and let the chips fall where they may. I need to try and set the record straight because if I do not she will prevail in a custody hearing if it goes that far. But on the other hand it will force her out of her new apartment with our children if I come clean and probably destroy any hope of reconciliation. Boy that was a long speech sorry guys. I do not know if that was just a class for my wife, which I doubt, or for 20 shelter women. I think it may just be a step in their recoveries but to advise leaving your spouse and beginning your new sexual relationships is I feel inapropriate and harmful to any marriage.
They are in a positon of mentor and advisor. These women look up to them asking them to guide their life and they do not take it on a case by case basis. These women are being assembly line triaged and sent back into the world due to budget constraints. The shelter I believe is doing the best that they can with the money they have.. Unfortunantly, my wife is caught up in the assembly line and is now starting to believe their "Demands"

Odds are it has to do with the fact that most men leave the children in the custody of the mother...And while it can irk you its not my figures but those of Peggy Vaughn and other noted marriage experts.

The statement "Women fare worse and are more bitter in a divorce" should then be qualified with "Women with children fare worse...".

The statement "Women fare worse and are more bitter in a divorce" should then be qualified with "Women with children fare worse...".
It doesn't need to be "qualified" in any way. THe statement was "Women fare worse and are more bitter in a divorce".
It didn't say anything about women who are less than 5'6' or red heads or anything.

<small>[ January 29, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

Glenn - Like I posted to you yesterday, you are up against the radical feminist concept of "counseling" which is getting more and more prevalent in these "shelters". Many of these "counselors" have themselves been abused, divorced, or otherwise harmed by men. My heart hurts for them but they haven't dealt with their own issues fully, so they transfer that anti-men venom onto their patients. I DO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE ARE MANY WELL-MEANING, BALANCED, AND ADEQUATELY TRAINED SHELTER WORKERS. Your problem, and mine, is that your W has been taken in and hoodwinked by those with an agenda of hate and discord.

Like I advised you yesterday, better be prepared to defend yourself against the accusations of RAMPANT abuse, control, domination, and manipulation. Their accusations should first be completely documented and factually presented, but in reality YOU will be the one on trial. I, again, advise you to be entirely truthful before the judge and do EVERYTHING necessary to CYA. If you can get character references, particularly from your past counselors, employers, high-stature people in the community, then do it. Produce any and all documentation that you can to combat their gameplan of portraying you as a monster.

THEN, PRAY THAT YOU GET A JUDGE THAT WILL JUDGE THE CASE ON IT'S MERITS, NOT EMOTIONAL GARBAGE OR PSYCHOBABBLE. Good luck and God bless!

It doesn't need to be "qualified" in any way. THe statement was "Women fare worse and are more bitter in a divorce".It didn't say anything about women who are less than 5'6' or red heads or anything.


Chris,

That is your opinion. My opinion is that it does need to be qualified.

The original statement leads one to believe that women, in general, are more bitter and fare worse in a divorce... not that women, when children are involved, are more bitter and fare worse in a divorce.

The connotation is that a (childless) woman should think twice before ending a marriage, b/c she will suffer more (be bitter, fare worse) than her husband just by the fact that she is female.

Glen,

Listen to hurting promis keeper's advice - I think he made some v. good points. your WW seems to get rather strange advice and the couple of events could indeed give grounds to portray you as a monster.

Did you try to have a conversation with your wife under which conditions she would leave the shelter? Or would that be a breach in the RO? Or could you talk to some of her family as an intermediary?

Not to get nit-picky but...
The original statement leads one to believe that women, in general, are more bitter and fare worse in a divorce...
And that is a true statement.
Look at the words, "in general". It is not being specific (qualifying). It is being generalized.

The connotation is that a (childless) woman should think twice before ending a marriage, b/c she will suffer more (be bitter, fare worse) than her husband just by the fact that she is female.
There is absolutely no connotation to that meaning at all.
You may have infered that though.

Hey Nick, wifey and I both have broken the restraining order since it went into effect. She first broke it by calling me. And it has continued ever since then. It has only been used when she needed it to keep the kids.

Glenn:

I'm sorry, but her counselor is a MONSTER and an ABOMINATION 2 the profession!!!!!!!!!!!!

GET THEM FIRED!

Okay, I'm calming down now. Look, Glenn, I remember reading your posts about how you gave in 2 the accusations of abuse and let the RO go through. I hope you're not "stuck" with that, because it's one helluva stigma that will make recovery of your M VERY difficult.

I won't judge whether you're abusive or not. Only you can. But look inside. If you have a tendency 2 react by throwing things or hitting someone, you need 2 make a conscious effort 2 stop it cold. NOW.

Also, you are doing yourself AND your WW a disservice by keeping her A a secret. She needs 2 face the consequences of her decisions just like you do (the consequence of playing her game 2 let her have free housing).

I think this si2ation cries out for good professional coaching. Call the Harleys or Cerri right now.

-ol' 2long