Just got served my D papers, citing "irreconcilable differences."

Well, I guess that's one way to describe adultery with a cuckoo bird and an addiction to hard-core internet porn.

<small>[ March 03, 2004, 04:42 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

This "irreconcilable differences" thing really bugs me -- is there any way to go on the record that adultery ended this marriage? This isn't about how he liked to go bowling on Fridays and I didn't.

AM

I'm with you! These states with "no-fault" divorce laws astound me and enrage me! Irreconciliable differences...how lame when in fact one spouse has "irretrieveably" broken the marriage vows they promised to abide by...particularly by ADULTERY!

Other states take longer to finalize a divorce, but I am starting to believe that may be the right path to follow rather than the no-fault, no-contest approach.

Wish I had advice...I don't, but perhaps others here will offer some. I know there are some similar topics about "no fault" states on the d/d board.

Be strong, AM!

Personally, I think there ought to be a "no" box that you get to check.

Particularly with the irreconcilable differences thing. I would simply state that you are willing to reconcile any and all of your differences and toss it back at 'em.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

A.M.Martin,

Bring your dance shoes ... let's go Salsa dancing ... lol. At least you are freed from the uncertainty. We celebrate it NorCal way <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> .

We plan to go to comedy club to laugh it out at the end of Feb. Please join us.

-rh-

Served?!?!? As in ___________, ok I know but it was fun to spectulate. LOL!!!

Hugz AM, I know this is hard. You are keeping a stiff upper lip on this matter and I am proud of you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Make sure the paperwork will not hurt you financially. Get your ducks lined up. The WS will probably try to start a mental D war but you will be prepared.

I can just imagine the scene in court:

Judge - Ok, Mr. AM you filed for this D?
Ws: uhhh, yes your honor.

Judge - Mrs. AM, do you agree to the charge of irreconciable differences?

BS: Yes your honor and with good reason.

Judge (looking puzzled???): Good reason?

BS: Yes your honor, I found our marriage irreconciable to be married to man having an Affair and exposing his children to such obscene behavior.

Judge: But Mrs. AM, you did not file these charges, the WS did.

BS: Yes your honor, even he knows his having an A would make our M irreconcilable.

WS: (steaming)

Judge - You have a good point Mrs. AM.
Mr. AM, I would like to say that Mrs. AM has wit and wisdom in her character. You on the other hand seem to be making bad choices. The D is granted.

JMHO,
L.


take care,
L.

Orchid

you ROCK!!!

ms. martin...
you rock as well...

continue on moving in grace...

ARK

Georgia is a no fault state but you can still claim adultery.

Might be worth looking into. It won't get you anything besides some sympathy but if you want to get back at your hubby for cheating then divorcing you seems worth it to me.

My W filed from another "no fault" state, citing the marriage is "irretrievably broken". Quite a clear message after 23 years of marriage, huh? Anyway, on her D filing there was a box for "Are you alledging marital misconduct". Fortunately she was honest enough to check "no". When I filed my response to her D petition I was ask the same question. I checked "yes" and cited abandonement and emotional duress as a result of it. That's sure to raise the judge's eyebrows, but I still don't have any recourse if she continues to press for her D. As my attorney says, at least I will have a chance in open court to express my desire for reconciliation and the reasons I oppose the "irretrievably broken" escape clause W is using. I don't know if you have this option in CA but it's worth checking into. God bless!

As HPK said, I think in most all states rather they are no fault or not.... You can file a response and in fact you can file your own divorce as a counter.... I live in VA and that is what happened with me. The Ex was having an affair and filed for irreconcilable difference... I filed my counter with Adultry..... However and note.... You HAVE TO HAVE HARD evidence..... and as much as you can get.....

Gee, GSN, do you think that he is listing her phone and address as his would count?

I guess I just can't get over what a sh*t this man is. That's the phrase that is going through my mind. I nursed him through a debilitating stroke, gave up my career for his, tried in every way to support him -- and he wants to act like that all never happened.

The D papers make it sound like he just wants to walk away from all of this. Perhaps it's best for me to let him. I think he's gone crackers, and the farther away from him I can get the better.

AM, one of the sad truths of life is that marriage is the one contract that can be unilaterally broken for not good reason and there is nothing the other party can do about it.

If you signed a contract for a new car, got the manager's signature on it, and they later came back and refused to sell it for the agreed price, you could sue them in court for specific performance. Alas, in marriage, your spouse can be a complete, selfish, unfair jerk, and it doesn't make a difference in granting the divorce or splitting the property. Not one bit.

Still, since you sacraficed your career to help him, you should be able to get something for that effort. Be fair, but firm.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{AM}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Okay, everyone. Whack me with 2X4s.

After five months of Plan B, and later Plan D, silence, H called today to retrieve something from the house. I said that it was inappropriate for us to be talking, and inappropriate to be moving stuff, as he had initiated a legal process against me that had yet to be resolved.

He said he hadn't initiated a legal process, just a D. I said, "You don't consider that a legal process?" Well, he said, it wasn't "against" me. "You consider it FOR me, then." I pointed out that this was something he had unilaterally decided to do that would affect both of us, and though he might be cavalier about the process I was not.

Though he was characteristically silent most of the time, we quickly got into deeper waters. I said I didn't want to be hard-nosed, or make things more difficult than they had to be. He tried to reassure me about how smooth and uncontested things would be. I pointed out that, after a repeated history of lying and deception, I did not feel I could trust him about that or other matters. And I certainly could not trust her. I said that their public behavior had been vulgar and coarse and insensitive in the extreme -- and that a number of people had commented on it -- and that they had lowered the tone for the entire community. Given that, in addition to the previous lies, why should I trust them?

I suggested that our marriage had been a fraud from the outset, based on what he had said, and that I wished we were getting an annulment instead. I had been badly deceived. Obviously, that's the kind of girl I am, and that's the kind of guy he is.

I said that I regretted having this conversation, and that I shouldn't be talking to him. Not only for legal reasons, but that it had become apparent in the last year that he was wholly indifferent to my feelings, so what is the point of talking to him about them?

This is the only convo we've had like this since he left nearly a year ago. I have refrained from saying any of this stuff. There's hardly any point in talking about it now.

I wasn't angry, although I'm sure he'll think I was, but I was shaking with the shock of the whole thing.

<small>[ February 21, 2004, 05:58 PM: Message edited by: A.M.Martin ]</small>

Wow. This had drifted almost to the bottom of p.2. Lots of new-timers here.

Spoke with my "gladiator" (aka atty) today. He says it will save a lot of fees if I have a working relationship with my H. He wants no written or recorded convos between us.

Everyone has always congratulated me on being able to handle myself with dignity. Partly, I suspect, it was because there was a lot of written communication, and later a very solid Plan B. I'm not sure I can avoid being snide and caustic if I have to actually talk to him again.

AM, he may perceive the conversation as a lovebuster, but if there were no angry outbursts, disrespectful judgements, selfish demands, etc, then you didn't "lovebust".

It appears that you told him the truth about what people have said, were honest about how you feel.

I think under your circumstances this was a respectful conversation. No fun I'm sure, but you don't have an obligation to make his life carefree from the process he began.

Attorneys hate written records.... but love it when you document conversations afterwards so that they can use it against the other guy later.

I get darned tired of documenting my life in that much detail. I hope I get to use it in a bestselling autobiography some day.

Half the proceeds goes to paying off my mortgage and other essentials, half the proceeds to a fund for defense of the children of separating same-sex relationships whilst the marriage laws don't protect them. That'd be about right.

I'M SERIOUS ABOUT THIS! At my lawyer's insistence, I left a message for my H today on his & OW's answerphone (she's out of the country, as usual; I don't think she likes him all that much, but that's speculation; I guess he's taking consolation on the porn sites. Oink oink.). I notified him that I had retained an attorney -- the attorney thought that way the first notification wouldn't be from him, and H wouldn't think I'm trying to escalate into a battle.

But I really don't know how I'm going to manage to talk to him on even an occasional basis without letting tear with a lot of the stuff I've been bottling for a year.

H will want to pretend that this is no big deal. He tried that last weekend. I really don't know how to respond to his nonchalance. I just don't want to talk to this guy. Ever again.

But I have to. The cavalier way he is handling this is so piggy. OW returns sometime in April. She's such a bizarre little twerp. Their own LBs will start up shortly afterward, within a week or two -- maybe I can slow this all down so I can work with it later rather than sooner...that would make it easier on me.

I'm so sick of him. SOMEONE must have felt this way.

As my father used to say: "He's at the end of his troubles. He just doesn't know which end."

I'M SERIOUS ABOUT THIS! At my lawyer's insistence, I left a message for my H today on his & OW's answerphone (she's out of the country, as usual; I don't think she likes him all that much, but that's speculation; I guess he's taking consolation on the porn sites. Oink oink.). I notified him that I had retained an attorney -- the attorney thought that way the first notification wouldn't be from him, and H wouldn't think I'm trying to escalate into a battle.

But I really don't know how I'm going to manage to talk to him on even an occasional basis without letting tear with a lot of the stuff I've been bottling for a year.

H will want to pretend that this is no big deal. He tried that last weekend. I really don't know how to respond to his nonchalance. I just don't want to talk to this guy. Ever again.

But I have to. The cavalier way he is handling this is so piggy. OW returns sometime in April. She's such a bizarre little twerp. Their own LBs will start up shortly afterward, within a week or two -- maybe I can slow this all down so I can work with it later rather than sooner...that would make it easier on me.

I'm so sick of him. SOMEONE must have felt this way.

As my father used to say: "He's at the end of his troubles. He just doesn't know which end."

Ms. Martin..

first clarify what you want from him...

Or what you expect perhaps...what are you looking for from him....

clarity that he "gets" the trickle down effect from his actions...

apology
closure???
onus of responsibility...
his opportunity to defend himself...

what's the best that can happen if he responds to you...
what's the worst that can happen in his response....

here's where I am not clear...
you and he are divorcing...
you feel the need to speak your peace...
and are you saying you are afraid to LB??

and why do you think you have to keep this stuff bottled up...

And there are seperate issues..
speaking your mind with NO expectations of any type of response of value...
speaking your mind and expecting validation for you your feelings/thoughts...
which is it you seek...

and even your last post...in which you say you LB'd...
I confess I don't see the LB's...
Even if you were to go balls-out gung ho and really unload on him....

so what???????
what do you think would happen??

perhaps opening tiny cans of whoop-butt on him now and then is not such a terrible thing..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

I am more concerned about your expectations from him than what you say and whether you Lb or not...

it's your own (all of ours) expectations of another persons response that can be more self damaging than some well earned show of anger or other emotion...

ARK

<small>[ February 27, 2004, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>