I don't know how many here even know my story. So many new people and so much hurt here lately.

Dday was June 16, 2001. Seems like an eternity ago and yet it seems like only yesterday. I've been through plan A. been seperated, did a 180, caused the former OW to quit her job with my H, been to counseling alone because H won't go. I've tried it all and still 2 years and 6 1/2 months later and I still have huge triggers and I basically just do not trust him.

I wonder if there is anything else I can do or if I'm better off just ending the marriage (not what I want). I feel between a rock and a hard place. He doesn't do anythinmg suspicious but then again I wasn't suspicious while he was in the A either. If he's late and I question it, he gets angry and says things like "aren't you ever going to let this go?". I don't know why but I can't get past the dishonesty and betrayal/

Advice? Suggestions? I'm lost

TD

Haven't seen you for a while, and sorry to see you here struggling so much.

I hope someone else will be along to help you because I'm not so sure what you can do. I hate it to hear stories like yours - I wish there was a magic wand to make it go away so you could feel better.

I guess a couple of questions - do you feel like your H is remorseful, truly, has learned his lessons the hard way and can be trusted again? I guess the answer is no, so why not? What is in his behaviour that makes you question his honesty, or is it you? Is there anything more he can do? Is it particular triggers that set you off? I guess what I'm trying to say here is think hard, is there something specific happening which is hampering your recovery?

If your H is doing it right, then there will come a time when you need to let go. I feel I have no right to say that, but what I mean is if you don't you'll loose your M anyway, and as you say that isn't what you want.

Wishing you well from London.
Lisa

Why doesnt' he call you when he is going to be late? What is he doing to reassure you and help you get over this?

Your husband's reply when you ask him about being late tells me that while he may have ended the affiar, he has not come to grips with the damage done to you, your marriage, and to him.

I don't know your entire story. Has there been any attempt on his part to implement MB pricipals in the marriage?

Has he read books such as Surving an affair and "Not Just Friends" that describe the damage an affair does?

Hi Lisa. Thanks for your thoughts. I feel like such a whiner.

My H doesn't seem remorseful. He just wants to sweep it under the carpet. He said it's over so move on or move out. Here's a for instance on a trigger. The other day during our "blizzard" a girl from his work called him to report off. No biggie. They call him because he's the manager. When hanging up he said "ok babe I'll see you tomorrow". I must have visibly reacted to the word babe and he asked me why. He said "I call everyone babe, even guys. You didn't get mad when I called Jimmy babe. I said I doubt you're attracted to Jimmy and he said "am I attracted to Linda? (the girl from work)" I said I wouldn't know, now would I. He said simply "I'm tired of this" and he left. I guess everything is hampering my recovery. Maybe it's just who he is but I don't like it.

Hi Melody, thanks for replying.

He is doing nothing to reassure me or help me get past this. Sometimes he calls sometimes he doesn't He says he forgot. And I try not to make an issue of it but geeze, he should understand after all this time.

Also, he seems to be really bothered by any male person who I come into contact with, very jealous acting. I remember someone long ago saying that cheaters are suspicious because they know what they're doing.

Hi TD,

Sorry to hear he is still trying to place his recovery work on you and making you settle for less.

When my WS did that (after several anger moments), it became obvious that he did not deserve to be with us. I learned to give him back his anger and could see that in some incidents, that was a sign the A was still on. I sent him packing. His anger subsided, when he really let go, I mean really. RE: He was angry at himself for hurting us and yet he was not willing to break free of the OW. In our case, that also included threats from the OW to tell me whatever......once that came out (ow told me some but he had told me earlier) and he realized he needed to work with me instead of hide stuff from me, then the OWs threats lost steam. I got more of the upper hand on the situation and I got my life back.

I just told lefty in her thread to not keep the WS anger. Give it back to him along with the consquences. For me that meant kicking him out without care of what it did to him. I told him I could only be concerned about his financial obligations and not worry about where he was going to sleep but he was no longer allowed in our house if he was going to make us not feel safe.

See he had to prove he was worth being allowed back into the house. Meeting the family's needs was critical to OUR recovery, NOT just his. His version of recovery meant he keep the anger, mine wasn't.

Can you make it financially if you separate? I don't like to advoacte separation but anger outbursts are a form of abuse. It needs to be recognized as such.

By the way, your timeline is close to mine. From the start of t his A, it ran almost 3 years. Finally saw the OW in court on the 37th month. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Hope this helps.
\L.

auto you don't know how right you are. He has no idea what this has done to me and our marriage.

He has not and will not do anything MS based. He calls it voodoo. He also hasn't and won't read the books. I have though but it's hard doing all the work myself when he seems so uninterested.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He said it's over so move on or move out. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wonder, how does he or would he respond if you told him it is that attitude that is keeping you locked in this place.

Have you ever expressed to him that he has the power to assist you to heal or to keep the wound open and bleeding.

Tell him you'd like to move on too, that you are tired of living this way. But your heart has been broken and things that need to be done to help you heal and move on have not been done.

You wouldn't ignore a gun shot wound for 2 1/2 years, you wouldn't push away -- you'd get the person some help, you wouldn't let the wound get infected, you wouldn't leave the bullet in place, you wouldn't keep them from life saving surgery, you wouldn't let them die -- especially if you loved or even just cared for them.

You might, they might, even read and follow the after surgery care instructions.

Well, this is a wound that has been left without the benefit of a healer. It's still open and maybe beginning to fester -- and he probably hasn't read or followed the after care instructions.

Tell him that he has the power to help you get over this and move on -- and that, especially after all this time, means MC -- ask him to do go t for you to heal, because you really need to heal.

Has he read any of the books to understand what happens to a BS on d-day and afterward? You may ask him to read to assist you in healing.

A spouse having an affair is worse than being raped. If you had been raped would he go with you to the hospital and to couseling? Just like being raped you were violated, and if he continued to ignore that he ignores a growing cancer. It won't go away just because he refuses to look at it and/or accept responsibility for it and deal with it.

You may want to mention that it seems that a majority pf those couples and BSs who've healed the fastest have been through MC. He has the power to lift you and your marriage out of this situation.

If not then maybe he is still too selfish. Maybe his care is not so strong for you and he desire for your marriage is not primary.

If he had accidentially shot you, he'd rush you to the hosptial . . .

If he meant to shoot you, and left you to bleed to death . . . you wouldn't want to be with him anyway.

After 2 1/2 years he needs to finally get you to a hospital.

way2

P.S. If you say much of this too him -- don't expect him to right jump into MC and book reading right away ... it may take a little time for the seed you planted to grow ... water it... but give it a finite date for germination to have begun. A farmer doesn't wait until December to see if the wheat he planted last March begin to grow.

<small>[ January 31, 2004, 11:48 AM: Message edited by: way2 ]</small>

Hi Orchid and thanks. I would be fine financially without him. I think I'm just afraid. everything you said makes perfect sense. He is making me responsible for the recovery and for his anger. I really, really don't want to seperate but I will if nothing else works. I simply can't like this way. It's not good for any of us.

Hi way2. Thanks for the advice. Everything you said is just how I feel and I have told him I need his help to move on. He just doesn't get it. His whole family is that way. They believe in sweeping things under the rug and hoping noopne trips on the bumps. I will try to explain it to him with what you've said.

I've been considering the dreaded ultimatum - telling him either we go to MC ot he packs his things and gets out until he's ready to help save out marriage. What do you all think? Good idea or bad?

TD,

Right now it isn't about his turn around. It is about your survival. If you are at a point that you no longer are willing to be sucked into this A game which includes the BS carrying the blame, then the separation is for the BS more than the WS. Know that this can lead to the D. If you are ready for that, then go ahead. If you are scared enough to be willing to give in and succumb to taking a WS beating (emotionally and mentally), then continue in this course.

See some WS are willing to let things ride just as they are as long as the BS allows it. That is what happened in my case. Once I realized that, I put my little foot down and removed myself as a player. I was never asked to play this game and resented having to carry the bulk of the problems. Once I gave it back to the WS and OW, it brought me out of the game and provided great relief. I was still scared but not so much so that I would be willing to be subjected to what I now considered emotional and mental abuse.

So the decision is really yours. Not the WS.

take care,
L.

I see your point, Orchid. Honestly, I have had enough. It seems each day brings something new and I am really at the end of my rope. He won't hear me and yes, I think it's time for drastic action.

Now a question, do i move to Plan B complete with a letter or just seperate and hope he gets the picture? This affair fallout really sticks.

TinyDancer,

You've gotten some good advice. I don't have anything to add, really, other than to say "I hear you!". My H's EA was ... well, D-Day will be 2 years ago next week. For the longest time he didn't want to talk about it, and for over a year I was too scared to put my foot down (amazing what an A will do to a normally confident, assertive person <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ).

Though I *knew* the A was over, I finally asked for some reassurance measures... things like email rules, promise to tell me if she contacted him. H agreed to most, but not all, of it. That made me feel safe and happy for 3 or maybe 4 months. Like our old M was back.

But the worry crept back in. WHY did he have the A? WHAT was my role in it? HOW could I be a better W to him? I was afraid to talk to him about it... he is prone to love busting when I bring up relationship stuff, and I am queen of conflict avoiders -- especially where he is concerned, because I know now from experience how easy it is to lose him and how much it hurts. I ended up getting into my own EA because I felt so isolated, so lonely, so misunderstood, so unable to get through to him. I knew the warning signs, I saw the red flags, and I *still* screwed up. Fortunately it was short lived, but it has made things SO MUCH more difficult. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I extracted myself from that friendship in October/November and told H that we needed to see a MC. We are, plus he's seeing an anger management person. Plus I asked him (again, and repeatedly this time) to read "Fall in Love, Stay in Love" with me. He knew I was unhappy enough with the M to leave it, but he hadn't (and still doesn't have) a clue why. But it's a start.

I still don't know if he understands why I'm so unhappy, but as we work through the book I'm hoping it will sink in. The reason I decided to read that book instead of Surviving an Affair or another affair recovery book is that I wanted us to be on firmer footing before attacking that big elephant under the carpet (affair recovery). When we get the basics down of creating a safe, loving environment for one another, then I'll feel more capable of tackling the fallout of his A. We have a long road ahead of us, for sure, but we've finally started the journey.

So, I guess the point of all this rambling is to let you know that you do have a kindred spirit out here, who understands what it's like to have so much left unaddressed. You can beat yourself up telling yourself "It's been over and done forever, just forget it and move on..." but it's not that easy. I just got to the point I was ready to leave if something didn't change, and although H still doesn't understand what is wrong (with me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> ), he's at least willing to humor me and to his credit he IS giving this book and the MC an honest effort. It's so weird that he can be so totally happy in this M and I'm so miserable.

When you get to the point that something has to change or you're gone, you know it deep in your gut. At that point, what do you have to lose, really? My biggest fear at that point was whether or not I'd be able to recover, ever, on my own, because I'd tried solo recovery and it hadn't worked. But I think the crux of that situation is that you do have to have his involvement to recover the M, because the M is about how the two of you relate. I think I could recover myself eventually, by myself - but not our M.

Oh, yeah, regarding Plan B or separation...

I asked about separation recently, and if it could help recovery, and I was advised against it. I definitely understand your feelings though!! My post.

I think the Plan B might help if you are totally drained of love units. It would protect you from further disappointment and hurt at seeing nothing done, and it would lay out for him in clear terms what is expected of him if he wants the privelege of living with you and rebuilding the M. But I've never done plan B before so see what everyone else has to say.

Tiny--

I'm in just about the same place as you. If you want, check out my thread on the Recovery board called "that radical honesty thing..." I have just mad my first appointment for IC because I am at the end of my patience, and considering getting out, since I have gotten no cooperation from H, and had most of my efforts rebuffed for the past two years. ...and he has no clue how unhappy I am.

I am hoping that IC will either give me some tools for getting through to him, or the right perspective on my need for honesty about the past. Can't trust him without it, no matter how affectioate or attentive he is (as he was all during the A)

Let's keep in touch and see where this journey takes us. Be strong. --DT

Hi turtle. Thanks for your posts. I just read your post regarding seperation and you have gotten some good advice there. I understand about your EA also since I walked a fine line with having one myself. Thanks for sharing your story with me. It really helps.

Hi DT. Thanks for the reply. I checked out your thread and boy do our stories sound similar. I did the IC thing when H refused to go with me. It did help somewhat but I could only go so far by myself. I felt like I lost myself somewhere in this mess. I still feel like I don't know my H like I thought I did.

I'm still so torn as to what to do and I won't make any fast decisions. I'm weighing my options and praying for help. I just wish there was an easy answer.

Tiny
I really don't know your story. Only what I see hear. I have a question and I hope you understand it.

Why do you place your entire happiness on the response of your H? 2 1/2 years is a long time and you still don't trust him. I am not defending him and what he did. It was wrong. I know trust does not come easy. There will always be triggers. Trust me I have some that will never go away, but I dismiss them as destructive to our chances for recovery.

I am only 6 months past dday, but realize two things. One is that For a long time I put my WW under a microscope. Always watching her for clues. Also, she watches me very closely. My actions and reactions are watched very carefully. More than I realized.

Recently, I have found more peace by backing off alot and in fact just giving her room to seek me out. The pressure from me was hurting us. It seems to have some positive effects. She comes to me much more readily. She is more relaxed and even more interested in me. I have more confidence in our future. Also, though I still love her deeply, I am willing to let go of her if she chooses that route. However, I will not leave.

Maybe you tried this already, but I thought it was worth a shot to give you my feelings. I am saying just relax a little. Think hard about giving up. The pain of a divorce never goes away. But the pain of an A can be healed. But it is really upto you to let him know he can feel safe with you. Then maybe couseling can be a part of your recovery.

In the love of Christ,
Roman121

Hi Roman. Thanks for the reply. To answer your question, I don't rely on my H or anyone else for my personal happiness. I believe everyone is responsible for their own happiness. What I should be able to rely on him for is honesty, compassion, caring and most of all faithfulness. Those are the things he doesn't give me,

A short version of my story. D-day I found cards and gifts from the ow, an older woman co-worker of H's. He denied, denied, denied. Finally admission to an "inappropriate friendship". I was told to get over it. OW still worked there until about 2/02 when she flipped out in front of everyone at a company party and ran crying to the bathroom. She quit her job shortly thereafter. We worked (actually I did all the work) on out marriage and we floated along trying to recover. Just as the ow was becoming no more than an unpleasant memory, I found yet another card from her. This was the summer of 2003, 2 years past d-day. I was crushed. He again blamed me, refused to answer any questions, denied all and shut down on me.

I don't know how to build on that, which is why I think maybe Plan B is the answer. He's under no microscope BUT when trust has been broken, he should be willing to make some concessions to help me feel safe and able to trust. He doesn't.