May I am gonna get 2X4'd to death, but I am gonna take that chance.

First, I cannot stand the fact that we fight almost CONSTANTLY.

The latest...H got in a car accident (with my 3 kids in car). Some Ah**e rammed the back of our minivan PURPOSELY. At first, I aksed H WHY someone would do that.....he got IMMEDIATELY defensive staing "Ya its always MY fault". SO you know, H has had warnings mailed to him regarding his driving/road rage from the city.

He finallly admitted that the guy cut him off and that he (H) got ahead of him and got to light and purposely did not signal and just sat there as the idiot was behind him. Well, I guess H f**ked with the wrong person and this guy got pissed and purposely rammed our van then took off. Anyhow, we needed to take the van in to the repair shop to get fixed.

So I call them to book apt...they say they are closed but the man who does the assesments on the vehicle happened to be there and would wiat if we came right away...I asked H he said "sure". 1.2 an hour later, after I asked him if he coudl just go and bring it in, he is on the computer downloading music. I REMIND him the man is there on off hours willing to wait if we came RIGHT away...he gets mad, a fight ensues.

I asked him to pick up bread on the way back because we were out and I had none to make kids lunch.

He gets back, no bread. Says he didnt feel like stopping (I figure he forgot to get it) either way I was let down.

I had to REMIND him 4 times to make a credit card payment (which he hasnt done) on his cc because the minimum due was going to be late...so , he again, forgets and gets angry at the reminders.

Just incase you think its me, he got his annual review at work....he got a "poor" because he needs "babysitting" (says his boss) and CONSTANT reminders to do things and get them handed in on time.

ALl of this , and of course, add in the A because everything now is about that....and ALL WE DO IS FIGHT.

I told you all, I have NO desire to have sex..THIS IS NOT BECAUSE MY MIND IS ON OM...thsi is because I am starting to really HATE living with and being with my H.We arent friends, we arent lovers and I feel like this is doomed.

One of the scariest things for me is that this will continue and I will end up losing my love and hating him and not being able to get it back on track.

I just wanted to vent.....havin really bad day...he just left...dont knwo where to.

S

Sally

I do understand - everything in my life was pre and post-A with nothing in-between. Sometimes it is easier for people to focus on one thing and not look at the whole picture. However, I am not saying that the discovery of your A is easy for your H. I just know my X constantly would look at that and not address anything else, however hard I tried and whatever I did.

Having said that, 2 months post d-day and NC is very very early days. You are still in turmoil - need I refer to your other thread about contacting OM? You know this will only make things worse for *you* let alone your M.

So, what are you asking for here or what are you looking for? Someone to say, well you've done your very best, you'd be right now to move on. But you haven't, and you know that. That's not criticism, that's reality of your situation. It is hard to do your very best when your withdrawal is still so very painful and you don't even really know where you want to be, who with, or what your life is about. While the routine still continues, work, caring for your kids, cleaning, being M'd, so much turmoil still exists in your life. I know that. I know I could "go through the motions", but it meant nothing really.

When I first came here, JL told me to give myself 6 months at least before making any major decisions. I remember querying whether that meant I should stay with X for 6 months even if I didn't know whether or not I wanted to. I remember him kindly pointing out that X probably didn't know either whether or not he wanted to stay with me <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> And of course, put like that, it makes sense doesn't it.

Neither you nor your H really know right now what you're doing - you want to try, but there's anger, pain, hurt, upset - on both sides. What have you both done - practically - to try and start to sort things out? Have you done the ENQ? Has your H read SAA, is he willing to go to MC? Have you made an appointment with MC. Some M's do recover without the help of MC, but it will be much much harder. What's your plan Sally?

There was a thread here recently about earning your DV. Your alternative is to bring your M to an end, separate and then perhaps DV. Is this what you want? I understand you don't want things as they are, but do you want the alternative? If not, you have to start working harder.

Take care Sally.

Lisa

Sally,
Even the best of marriages wobble a little during hard stressful times.

Try to see it as what it is....a very stressful day. Looks like there is no way to go but up....

The two of you need to learn to communicate without love busters....get that counseling appointment ASAP.

Learn to be the first to say 'i'm sorry for acting like a b----' even if you really feel that he should apologize first. This one change in my behavior has often kept things from spiraling downward. I never said I'm sorry before, but always try to look at myself first now when things don't go well. And they will...every day as you know will not always be peachy keen.

I know you may not want to hear this. YOu probably want us to say, 'well i don't blame you....you shouldn't have to put up with this....

That is true...neither of you should have to put up with so much unhappiness. But, I also know you can turn it around. Cause we did! I hope none of this has offended you...I know you want a sympathetic ear, but I also want to write things that will help you keep things in perspective!

Keep posting and venting!
Diane

<small>[ January 31, 2004, 09:59 PM: Message edited by: diane1223 ]</small>

Sally, I am really sad to hear you had such a bad day.

I think the biggest thing, if you two are going to make this work, is to either both read all of Harley's books, and put them into practice, or go to counseling. I know you have said that H will go, but isn't really thrilled. It might be helpful to just set up and appt, and if he doesn't go with you, just go by yourself. It will still help you. Look at it this way - you will need counseling eventually anyway - if this doesn't work, and you end up separating and getting a divorce, you will need counseling as to the best way to go about it because you have kids. You will always have H as a part of your life, so you will need to know how to explain to kids what is happening, and learn to deal with ex-H in a positive manner for the kids sake.

So don't wait any longer - you will be happy you went - even if it's just you, and even if it's just a few sessions. If money is an issue, there are usually counselors out there that adjust there fees depending on your income and dependants. It also sounds like your H could use a few anger management sessions - not sure he would go, though.

I would recommend the Harley books to you even if he doesn't read them. They will help you understand certain things more, and are lessons you can use in the future, even if you aren't with him. I have found that just reading about LB's has made me a better person to deal with in a lot of situations - I just treat people with more respect, period, and that includes H.

You will have your good days, and your horrible days, but I urge you not to throw in the towel yet. I like the idea about waiting 6 months before making a major decision - you've been married for 13 years now - what's 6 more months added on? It will either give enough time for things to heal more and get better, or varify that things just aren't going to work.

Hope tomorrow is better. Keep posting and venting - we are here to help you, not knock you down with 2x4's. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Liza

sally,

I guess the only advice that I can offer up is ...

KEEP THE KIDS OUT OF THE VEHICLE WITH HIM BEHIND THE WHEEL!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

It is too late when one of them is harmed.

Please insure your children's safety. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

committed

Hey everyone;

Well things have calmed down a bit. I did something in the heat of arguing yesterday...told H that my cousin and I were going to go away for a night in the summer to go tothe casino,,go shopping and have agirls night, just the 2 of us Well he got royally Pissed. YOu all know I met OM on my first "girls nite" in 9 years. WE really did talk about doing this in the nice weather, her and I . Howver, I did use it in the heat of things to get him angry.

I hate how we feel like room mates, yet i dont have the desire to feel like anything more...almost like the sight of hi is a turn off. I WANT to have that feeling of attraction to him but just his whole package (as I am sure my whole package hasnt been appealing to him) is making me take steps back.

Im sincerely worried that these months of disputes has tainted the love and attraction between us.

I really do hope we can recover it because I know we both want a stable home ( we both came from divorced homes) for our girls...we do love them more then anything and would never want to disrupt their lives.

We are taking them sakting this afternoon...family outing. Hopefully it will be nice. H just went out for a tan...needed to get out so I am here venting.

THanks for listening....Im still scared about tomorrow.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

S.

WE'RE HERE FOR YOU SALLY!!!!!

Hope you have fun skating - I know I would break an ankle if up on skates!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Liza

Sally,,

I'm gonna ramble a post to you..
and I am going to try to come off without sounding as sanctimonious as I am afraid it will sound...that is not my intent...

I wanted to post this to you on your last post about wanting to give up....and couldn't bring myself to ever finish it because I am afraid of the my intent being lost...and to come off sounding like I am preaching...

I am not preaching...I have viewed my marriage in the past very much like you do...and it took a lot of perspective, attitude, and objective thinking to come to the point I am now...

First off at one time in my marriage I was very dramatic and very self sabotaging...
everything...and at times I mean EVERYTHING was a big dramatic crisis....that immmediately lead me to feeling and worse telling my husband this will never work..
this marriage is doomed
we should just divorce and be friends....
all this stupid verbage...said and also felt..
felt though because I created that feeling and I fed into it...

One day my husband told me very calmly that there is such a thing as self fullfilling prophecies and that if I continued down the road of seeing every crisis, every arguement, every stress in our life as the issue to end all issues...that that may really come to pass....and that i needed to think long and hard about that and needed to decide if everything was as fatalistic as I veiwed and presented it...or if I was creating it to be so...

I was very extreme...and I feel that you right now are somewhat in that same cycle...all interactions, all stressor, are magnified in to this extreme deal breaker of a fight...
and affairs often do this...again the nature of the beast....
both parties reacting in a knee jerk response...

it is the titles of your posts..."SERIOUS DOUBT"
that is not a criticism...I know how you feel...

but your feelings need to be bufferred and filtered a little more before you react...

Sally from your last post you posted this....

I just feel as if though my love for my H and maybe his for me is not a romantic and passionate love. Maybe thats what is what it turns into when you have been together 13 years? Is it normal? Should we be evoking these feelings of passion etc in eachother or is it GOOD enough to just be buds, to be friends and get along

to this I wanted to respond again that I relate to you on the logistical stuff...
ready for this..
1. three kids oldest is FIVE....do the math...
2. work part time
3. As a nurse (supervisor in charge of the whole building...)
4. NIGHTS AND WEEKENDS twelve hour shifts..!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />
get the picture....I feel your pain...

There are days that my house is a joke if you judge it on the shape it's in....

And there are days I could wallow in misery, stress, and the never ending piles of laundry...

BUT...
I shifted my attitude when i found it going that route and I changed MY views on all of it...
and the truth is it has worked for me...

I decided very fervently that to survive these three children the stress and laundry that my marriage was not something outside of this equasion and that I had to make it a priority and my sanctuary to be able to do any of it......

AND that I was going to do this...without my husbands consent...and drag him with me in the undertow...or drown him <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ....

AND that starting this process and change in attitude and becoming comfortable with ME saying and doing things that may not always be received in the way I wanted them to...was
scary
and
uncomfortable
and
felt silly at times...

BUT the more I did them.
the more I veiwed and view MR. ARK as someone who I wanted to cherish
the more I saw even in my most stressful and most "I'm gonna wig out if someone doesn't pick up the light brite pieces in the dogs water dish" and clean up the peanut butter smeared on the TV...
as someone who I could cherish...
the less these crisis, and stressor were extreme deal breakers
REGARDLESS of his actions

because to be honest it was the changes in me that brought out the changes in him that have brought us both to that point of being a team...

I encourage you to take in control of those things you can...and also get them in control in a postive way...

you have several times posted about wanting your husband to pay some bills....
sally quit power struggling and pay the bills yourself....
and do it because it needs done and is the better thing for the bigger picture of the family...
do it because you can
do it but also view it as a positive thing...change the way you see yourself doing instead of doing it begrudgingly and as a punishment to him because he can't or won't and before you apply labels to him of lazy or forgetful or whatever...just pay the bill because you can and move on from it...
not to be tucked away and used in future arguemnent.
not to teach him a lesson..
not to hold over his head..
but pay the bill because for Gods sake it need paid...

(and i am NOT saying that you do or would say these things...but we often do..
we do things out of spite or anger or I'll teach you...and that's no way for a person to treat their spouse...REGARDLESS of their treatment back to us....

you paying the bill without comment or emotional attachment accomplishes sooo many things...
1. the bill get paid
2. avoid late fees
3. avoid increased penalaties
4. avoid power struggling the same old arguement...
it's a win/win....it frees you from ever having to have that conversation of telling him to that bill...

and eventually YOU will feel good about the act of paying that bill on time...

Just incase you think its me, he got his annual review at work....he got a "poor" because he needs "babysitting" (says his boss) and CONSTANT reminders to do things and get them handed in on time

I think that must be really really scary for your husband...men (gonna generalize here)...see in their jobs great value as part of their piece in caring for and taking care of their family...

(I view my job as a pain in the butt even on a good day.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> )

In your post it comes off as a negative judgement that you also place on him...dam the fact he even told you he got such an eval is a big deal...in my book...
please support him in this...please don't bring it up to him...and I'm not saying you would...but here again it took me a while to really learn and understand that how my husband views his job...
at times I would have said you care more about your job than me..
you would go in to work in a blizzard and risk your life for it...
blah blah blah..
and at one point ...I would make the guy feel bad and guilty about doing his job...hang the dunce cap on me ...

and yet the reason why he did all of that "extra" for work...was for me to be proud of the job he does in caring for his family...

Sally take every opportunity you have to build him up....not to bring him down...
even if it feels strange or shallow at first...
it's a start...

and while it sounds like work..nurturing and cherishing a marriage...the truth is that at first it is a little like work...but that changes rapidly and soon it becomes the norm...and natural...

and it was work at first for WS and OP to get together and have that "connection"...but when you are in it...you can't see the work and energy it takes...
it doesn't just exist...it is definitely created...

and can be created in a marriage...and should be
and soooo much is attitude about it...

I still get excited each night to see my husband come home from work..
I still look forward to seeing him like I did pre-marraige because I feed those thoughts and feelings....
and some days I fail miserabley and he comes home to a shrew...because it does happen...

and some days it does take work...
but more often than not...I think Thank God he's home...

Sally I know how you fee right now...
I know how you are looking at things...
and I also know that you can turn it around...
becuase if you can shift all this energy that overwhelms and feels so negative in to something positive....then it does change...

you got all the energy you need to make it look bleak and miserable...
you gotta get all that energy going in a different direction...

ARK

Hi Ark;

Oh this is an awfully tough day yet again.

First, I have to tell you I sit here in tears from your post. I am not sure if it is the actual words you said, of if it really is the fact that you took so much time to write htat post. Thank you Ark.

TOday, you may know is OM's bday....I am struggling minute by minute to be strong in NOT emailing him.

TOday my car broke down...$1000 repair...thats the start o my day..oh well, add that to the $12000 on my credit card...whats the big deal huh?

Last night, another night where we went to bed as stragers...or room mates.

I am so so depressed...I want to run. I am so miserable...we both are.

I think I do have to take a stand....I have tried over the past 2 days to show small bits of affection (kind of signalling a start to gettin things back on track) but it seems to be met with either hesitancy or rejection.

Should I "up the ante" and kind of just go full throttle? I feel so awkward showing affection....as if I dont even really know him. It is teh most odd feeling to have with my H.

Funny Ark, we are both nightsift nurses with 3 kids who work part time and weekends. THats really a coincidence. But at least you can relate to me as you stated so.

Well...somehow, today I need to make the start....start to REALLY change this situation, turn this around.

How do I start exactly? Forgive me for sounding stupid...what do I do?

Thanks again Ark, and all of you here.

S.

Ark;

Today has so far been an AWFUL day....my car broke down to a tune of $1000....just add that to the already $12000 bal on my credit card..oh yea.

As you may know it is a minute my minute struggle NOT to email OM today (his bday). I am trying so hard and it is VERY hard in this depressive state in which I find myself.

YOur post.....your post made me cry lots of tears...I dont know if it is the actual words that hit me or the fact that someone would take such time and effort to write those words to help a total stranger? Either way, it moved me.

I believe what you say to be the only real alternative. You are right..that review embarassed my H and brought him down. He does pride himself on working for us, his wife and children. I never supported him on that...I just made him give me answers as to why he was incapable of doing things (here and at work) in a timely manner.

Last night we went to bed again as strangers....I have NEVER had this ODD feeling...even when we were just dating. IT is SO awkward.

I want this all to change..Im scared I wont be able to do it...I have tried to show little bits of affectionthese past 2 days only to be met with hesitancy and rejection.

I know in a sexual way, he is feeling very deprived (its been nearly a month..well about 3 weeks) but I know he feels the emotional connection is slipping away.

I need to "up the ante" sort of speak and get us out of this rut.

To avoid sounding stupid, I am gonna say this in the best way I can think of. HOW DO I START TO REALLY CHANGE US? TODAY I MEAN. SPECIFICALLY. Be as honest and specific as you can...anyone...and I wont be offended, ok?

BtW.....Ark, we have astonishingly similar predicaments (are you the WW or not?) Nurses, part time, nights and weekends, 3 kids....strange.

Thanking you all in advance,
S.

sorry..i thought the first post never made it through...so i retyped from memory on what i had written.

my apolgies

Sally,
You wrote,
"I have tried over the past 2 days to show small bits of affection (kind of signalling a start to gettin things back on track) but it seems to be met with either hesitancy or rejection."

Remember that you are in the very early stages of recovery....still thinking of OM, and things have been very stressful. Take it slow, and don't give up. He probably is not sure of your motives...doesn't know whether or not you are really committed to working on the marriage.

You are doing great in the NC area....much better than I did......don't hurt YOURSELF by contacting him....that is what will happen, because you are the one who will suffer the most. I don't believe you will(contact him)....you said yourself that if you made it through today, you would probably not contact him again.

Sorry about all the extra stress in your life. I think you got some excellent advice from Ark. And you are trying or you wouldn't still be hanging around here.
Keep on posting.....
Diane

Sally,

You can do it, you are strong enough for maintaining NC.

Sally, I have an idea about the hesitancy and rejection. On your H's side, he is afraid. He is afraid of rejection, and unsure of himself. He is also afraid of pushing you away more. He probably doesn't want to hurt you. He has a lot of fear at this time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I want this all to change..Im scared I wont be able to do it...I have tried to show little bits of affectionthese past 2 days only to be met with hesitancy and rejection.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Just keep showing him affection. Talk about what your feeling from him. Let him know you want the M and the closeness. Keep showing him your affection. But do it at a pace your comfortable with. Healing can't be rushed.

Sally you are doing good, like Diane said your still at the beginning of redeeming your M. Your still in withdraw, but it is getting better.

God Bless

Sally, I really feel your pain. I remember feeling the same way with my H for quite a while, and I thanked God that we had a king size bed so I didn't have to be too close to him while sleeping <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> .

I honestly thought I would never have even a speck of love again for my H. Thought I was doomed to staying in a broken relationship because I didn't want to ferry the kids all the way across the country to visit each parent. I remember the dispair of thinking about that all the time. (one of my last topics was "still have no love for H")

The thing that turned me around was that I noticed when it was just me and the kids, I was happy, and as soon as H drove home, I turned into a negative, depressed, irritated person. Well, I didn't want to feel that way, so I decided that I was going to pretend for a while that he wasn't here so I could stay happy. I guess, in a sense, I ignored the marriage issues, viewed him as a visitor, and refused to let his entrance cloud my mood. For me, it really worked. Once I was able to keep in a decent mood around my H, then I was able to treat him more decent, which made him open up to me more, and things gradually started to feel better. It's almost like Ark said - you have to change your attitude and focus on whatever positive you can to start bringing you out of the negative spiral. Anyway, that's what turned me around.

BTW, I am really sorry to here about your car, esp when you have to already repair the other one from the accident! <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> Boy, when it rains, it pours, doesn't it!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I am thinking about you today, and sending my strength for you not so send that email.

Maybe after today, when OM's b-day is past - things will lift, and you will be surprised the relief you have (knida like when my OM finally towed his truck off my property 2 weeks ago - I didn't realize how much it was weighing me down.)

Liza

Sally
I am neither BS or WS...BUT BUT BUT..if ever there was a role I could have been it would have been WS..
and not because of anything lacking in Mr Ark
but because of me buying the myth that somehow my happiness and fullfillment was "out there"..
and though there was no one person that I ever got close too...I could have and easily been telling my husband..
this had nothing to do with you..
it was all about me and my needs..
and I didn't mean to hurt you...

and then I started making some decisions...about the bigger picture of life...

1. that my husband is not responsible for my happiness or unhappiness in life

2. that I am not a miserable person..and each child exposed me to more women who never ever have anything nice to say about there husbands..and are miserable women...and I decided I would not become that person...

3. that my home would become a sanctuary...that life is chaotic, creul and stressful enough and that I was not going to bring that into my home for no reason...

4. That I really began to view my husband as a child of God...that deserves respect and peace in his lifetime...that life is short and precious and that we make it harder than it already is when we pile our garbage on it...
that I had for a long time viewed my own husband as an enemy so that he was dammed if he did and dammed if didn't...
there was a period long long ago... that if he cooked a meal..it was obviously because he didn't like my cooking...
if he took over a chore...he did it because he didn't think I did it good enough...it almost got that crazy...almost...I pulled way back...
and then I began to atone and make ammends...

5. that I will not go to work or out with friends and bad mouth my husband...that I may discuss specific things on a limited basis...(OK I am still a girl... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )...but I will not put him down to just be one of the crowd...and that I would never be embarrassed to introduce him to one of my friends or peers out of fear of what they have heard about him....

I began telling him things that started with the words...
"I have to tell you something"..or "we need to talk".,,and his eyes would glaze and look of terror would go across his face... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
cause usually what followed was the barrage of things he does or doesn't do right and how unhappy he is making me...
and instead I told him something good...the things that HE really needed to hear..

like that I really appreciate that he takes good care of the kids when I work....
stuff like that Sally...the stuff I never told him before....
and at first he would look at me like I was nuts..or was waiting for a "BUT" to follow or atleast a frying pan to fly in his direction.. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />
and there were times I felt stupid saying it because I did'nt get a big reaction...but I still said them....

For Fathers day i wrote to him about how proud I am of his working, work ethics, and simply thanked him for that...THEN I hung it on the refrid...for everyone to read...and for some reason I was emabarassed when people read it...because we are brought up to ***** and complain about our men...that demasculinize them...and put them down...but I put it up there...and I meant it...and anyone can read it...

I try to make the house as warm and controlled as I can when he gets home from work so there is a buffer time..and then all hell can and usually does break loose...but when he first gets home I try to make him feel welcome...

and Sally...can you work on the intimacy issues with him if not the act of sex on your part...
can you hug him
can you hold his hand...
can you take him the kitchen after the kids are in bed and play a slow song and dance with him...no matter how stupid or strange it feels at first...
the longer you stay disconnected the harder it is...
can you touch him satisfy him even if you feel you can't have him touch you right now....

we do date night...silly stuff...with no babysitter...after the kids are in bed...we have dinner together...with candles and music...
and watch a movie together...

once you decide what type of marriage, life and home/family you want...then move towards making it so....

I don't do things for my husband to hold them over his head...cause when I do that..it doesn't work...but when I create those things to be a labor of love...

sally you may want to get Dr. Laura's new book the proper care and feeding of husbands...

and if you have any good tips on how to catsup out barbies hair ...send them my way...

ark

Isent him and email.

H I mena...sorry, not OM.

Sent this:


</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know you are at work and busy...when you have chance to read this I hope you willave to tell you I am EXTREMELY depressed today. This is not to take ANYTHING anay from how you feel about the current status of our marriage of your life--Im just telling you how and what I feel.
  
  Besides the financial strains of our life for which I am really bothered, I am deeply concerned about the state of us.
  
  I feel like a total outsider where we are concerned. A wife? I feel far from that. I just feel very awkward odd and strange around you. I sit here crying so miserably unhappy and wonder what is next? Where do we go from here? What do we do? WHat do I do? Nothing seems to be moving, happening.
  
  I see us spiralling downward....my biggest concern is we taint and lose the connection we are supposed to have andit will be too late to get them back.
  
  What do we do??
  
  Im really really concerned and feeling very very lost today.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Then he sent this back:

</font>

• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">because every time we fight we both get stuck in that state of "oh here we
  go again" i think we need tounderstand, we are gonna argue that's ok but
  not to compare it to the bigger probs we have they are not the same thing,
  mentally we need to understand that.save all this energy to talk with me tonight</font></li>

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Now what?

Ark!

What are you doing to me? Made me cry again...I cannot stop.

Um, I think I have to do these things...at least I better figure out a way to do it because I see noting but a downward spiral right now and I dont want to los emy family.

Im such a mimxed up girl. You know, maybe alot of my unahppiness comes from myself....how can someone be so miced upa nd unhappy form EVERYTHING else and EVERYBODY else (Om, H, moeny etc)? Maybe Im doing this to myself??? Maybe I hate me???

If I could get someone to take the kids tonite (i cant ask family on a school nite especially with no good reason...i dont want them to know anything is up) i would cook a lovely meal with candles and nusic--if he came home to that today, he would be totally surprised for sure with the state of us right now.

I gotta do something..maybe the talk will be enough to start things??

Well,I just got an email...from my H...it said

"I love you"

and thats all.

<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

S.

Sally,
My heart skipped a beat....I thought at first you...well you know.

It is great that you are sending him an email....sometimes it is easier to write it down than say it.

Try to talk to him tonight. Sounds like the two of you need to work together to solve some of the problems unrelated to the A...or maybe they are related. Maybe you have been trying to escape from reality.

Pay close attention to the last post from Ark...lots of wisdom there.
Diane

Sally:

It seems as if your H is trying to suppress his rage. Does he have any safe outlets he can use to process his anger?

Are you truly aware of what he is trying to deal with? I mean, from his perspective?

One of the biggest things I found was being open and honest with my W. This was her biggest EN, so you'd think she's welcome my attempts to be open. However, whenever I tried to talk to my WW about my anger, which ebbed and flowed beyond my control, I found that I was constantly "invalidated". Everything I said was challenged, minimized, or met with a "Yeah, but...".

She simply wasn't listening to me. It seemed as if who I was paled in comparison to who I ought to be. After a while, I just stopped trying to bring any of this stuff up. But, at the same time I had no one else I could talk to. I didn't have a friend or family member I felt safe in addressing any of this.

The rage started to come out in other ways. My health was degrading. Literally overnight I started to lose my hair and put on weight. I withdrew from hobbies and social activities.

I would go off at "safe targets" such as the time I tore a strip off some telemarketer for calling. Road rage was a big one. If I'd had a gun in my car, I can think of a couple of times when I may well have pulled it out. Thank goodness!

My work performance dropped, and my boss was all over my [censored]. I actually got a reduction in duties and a salary scaleback!

So, here I was. This balding, pudgy loser. I couldn't satisfy my W and she went elsewhere. I was a failure at my job. I was bitter and cynical most of the time. I had lost touch with my friends, I'd dropped many hobbies and interests. I hated myself. A cuckolded husband, crabby father, poor provider. In short I felt like no man at all. And, to top it off, the gap between what I was and what I ought to be seemed so wide as to be unbridgeable.

So, what I am saying, Sally, is listen to your H. What is he *really* saying in his actions and words. His self esteem is at an all time low, and he constantly seems to fail to measure up. Eventually, he will not give a damn.

I know you feel that some of this mess is his fault, but I would avoid twisting the knife so often. You know - pushing his buttons, or getting hyperdefensive at things he says or does that he probably doesn't mean.

A little compassion wouldn't be out of line. Even if you no longer feel a wife's love for him, think of it in the sense of "your fellow man."