Hello,

You probably don't remember me, but you reached out to me and gave me some great advice a couple of weeks ago. I know that you are extremely busy and there are so many people who need your attention, but I was hoping that you could give me some additional advice on my situation as it stands today. I feel so lost and hopeless, and I could use some concrete advice. I know your time is valuable, so I would be willing to compensate you. Please let me know if you are available. Thank you so much!

(By the way, I changed my name b/c my H was reading my posts. My old name was cmj.)
<img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

Well,

I thought things were beyond hopeless and I've had so many people tell me to just accept that it's over. Then my H calls me just now and says that he wants to talk before I move out (and go into Plan B). He briefly mentions that he thinks we have been getting worse (we have had some awful fights lately), and he wonders if separation could help. H asked about what I've been reading and how it can help us, but then he seemed to back off. I think this may be fog talk - or a brief lifting of the fog - but I don't know.

He also mentioned that he wants me to "just listen" to his side. I want to listen to him, but I also need to set some ground rules for the conversation. I'm so confused - should I tell him that I only want to talk if it's part of a plan to restore our marriage, and that such a plan will require a commitment from both of us (NC, HNHN, etc.), or should I have this conversation as a means to getting him to commit to such a plan??

I really don't know what to do....and there is so much that came before this in just one week that it's hard to give the full picture.

Ok - I think I'm just journaling here, but I would love some input...

Well the Harleys' told you to go to Plan B. Is that correct? I would do what they say, they have lots of experience in these matters.

If your H wants to talk to you and have you "just listen" to his side, why not do that? Clamp your lips together and just listen to him. But have your Plan B letter written beforehand.

Then sweetly hand it to him. It should be something like this:

Dear H -
I married you and thought we would always be together. I am commited to our relationship.
I am sorry for not meeting your needs, and that you are so unhappy.
However, to protect my love for you, it is necessary that we have no contact.
If the time ever comes when the OW is gone, I would like to get together with you to discuss possible reconciliation and the rebuilding of our marriage.

Yes, I'm to move out and do Plan B. I have a Plan B leter written, but not finalized yet.

I wasn't sure if H's mention of "can it be saved" was a chance for me to outline "the plan" for reconciliation, or if it would just pressure him. I know my H wants to talk about our "issues" but I don't think he necessarily wants to reconcile. He even asked me to put together a "list" of "rules" to help us communicate and talk about our issues. Again, I don't think he wants to save the marriage, I think he just wants some closure and to feel better about what he's done (fog talk).

Bear with me...I'm going to be very specific because I need to think this through before I make more mistakes....Here's what I'm going to do:
(1) listen to him, even if it's fog talk;
(2) summarize what my H says (active listening) so that he knows I heard him and I understand, even if I don't agree;
(3) thank my H for being open & honest w/ me & ask him to listen to my thoughts;
(4) without arguing about what he says no matter how hurtful, I will tell him simply that I love him, I want our marriage to work and I know that we can have a great marriage if we're willing to following the plan that has worked for so many others;
(5) briefly outline the plan for reconciliation and restoring love (and I mean briefly); and
(6) ask him to think about it [I think I just ask him to think, rather than commit at that moment, so that I'm not making a demand] and then tell him that until he's ready to make that commitment, I need to distance myself from the pain of his A and then hand him my Plan B Letter.

Gosh - I wasn't planning to do Plan B until next week...Maybe I should ease into this a little and try to Plan A a couple of days this week and ask to just spend a little time together this week (I'll try to meet EN's) and have the big talk this weekend when we don't have to get up for work the next day...

Advice / suggestions / criticisms?

thank you - I really appreciate any help I can get...

Should I ask him to limit the issues he can discuss? Or ask him if we can start by first forgiving one another for the recent mean comments and focus our discussion on how to solve things rather than anger/criticism?

I have to say, I thought he was completely through w/ the marriage, and now there seems to be a glimmer of hope (maybe??) because I'm moving out (he found out). I haven't actually gone to Plan B yet.

I don't want to mess it up. I feel like I'm trying to fish something out of a long, dark well using a flimsy hook and if I'm not careful, it will fall off the hook and be lost forever. So, if this is an opportunity, what do I do w/ it? Do I avoid it all together and continue w/ Plan B? or what?

(sorry - I'm feeling panicked - I don't want to mess this up)

OK, Happycat, I am going to jump in here and give you my $.02 worth.

I think on your list, you were doing OK on the first three items, up to and including the active listening part.

BUT...then I think you started taking the wrong approach. What you are proposing to talk to him about is mostly what you will include in your Plan B letter.

Now, there is a very good reason that this is a Plan B letter and NOT a Plan B conversation or dialogue. The reason? Simply because two individuals, meeting together, with one trying to impart to the other the things that are contained in a Plan B letter is a VOLATILE situation. There you are, trying to communicate extremely emotional things...things you don't even want to have happen in your life (let's face it - you really don't want a Plan B...what you want is your H to come home and live the happily ever after, right?).

The chance that both of you will remain unemotional, and speak and hear calmly are something like in 1 in a zillion, I would guess. So don't, don't, don't try to verbalize your Plan B letter. Instead, write a really, really good one, making it clear that you love him and married him for life but cannot continue being with him, in contact of any kind as long as the A is going on. Let the letter speak for you. Otherwise, one or both of you will become emotional, defensive, angry, you name it.

Now...not having read your history and your posts, gotta ask: why are you planning on moving out when he is the one having the affair? You should not have to leave your home. It should be your WH who has to pack up and leave the comfort of his home and those things that (at least int he past) he has held dear.

Good luck, Happycat! Hugs!

Sparkle - Thank you for the advice.

As to why I'm moving out...simple: my H refuses to leave. I totally, 100% agree that since he's having the A, he should have the common decency to leave the house. He did leave for one weekend (went to a hotel and OW visited him), but he contacted a lawyer and his lawyer said he had every right to stay in the house. (Legally, this is true.) I've asked him several times to leave, but he won't.

I feel like he is going to have more cake eating by being able to stay in the house. Also, he is filing at the end of March (not eligible until then) and he will buy me out of the house. (I can't afford it on my own.)

I really, really wish there was a way to make him leave, at least until the D is final, but he won't. If you have any ideas - let me know...

thanks!

Heya, Happycat! I'm here, though (as previously noted) fuzzy and busy. Why don't you e-mail me at justj_mb@yahoo.com and let's find a time to talk? That's faster than typing and we might get more done that way.