I left my WS back in November 2002. Yes, many extenuating circumstances were involved in my situation, aside from his multiple A's.

It has been almost 3 years now since d-day (February 6th is the actual day), and I still have nightmares about what has occurred in my life.

The most recent one being just last week actually. I dreamt that I was trapped in one of the OW's homes with my oldest son (who is now deceased). It was scary. I wanted out, but the manipulation was so intense, that I couldn't just up and leave. The authorities were puzzled by the fact that yes, I could have just left; and I was left trying to explain to them how I was not in control of my own actions b/c of her abuse.

That was pretty freaky, for sure. (shiver)

My point to telling this to you is this: whether or not you stay in your M, those betrayals are still a part of your life. They will still affect you in some way or another, be it consciously or subconsciously.

Perhaps finding a way to accept those triggers is an area that needs to be focused on more? I think a lot of that has to do with learning how not to LB, b/c following the MB principles helps us to actually work through the pain, instead of simply lashing out from it.

Take care,
Karen

Jazzey Girl,
I am really having trouble lately with the feelings of hurt. I too wonder if it will ever diminish.

Somewhere I read that female BS's are more likely to stay and recover the M while male BS's are more likely to divorce. Don't know if it's because women feel more stuck due to economics or if its because we men have that male ego that gets in the way. Maybe it's both.

My further concern is that to date anytime life has gotten stressful around our house, I try to deal with the individual problem but I seem to get completely irrational and the affair comes right back to the focal. I've never been the irrational type so it really has me worried because I seem to lose control of the emotions.

anyway... here we are

cwmac

Jazzey

I understand that holidays often bring on depression.....not surprising that many are having these feelings as Valentine's Day is approaching.

For me its like a triple witching betrayal day. Youngest birthday on the 13th, Valentine's Day on the 14th, Anniversary on the 15th.....slept for the first time with the other man on 19th....sigh.

So I suspect Anniversaries and Valentine's Day are the toughest days for most betrayed spouses since they represent "true love" holidays.

jazzey

Yes "it" will always be there. But so are all of life's different disappointments and letdowns.

I know its so damn easy to get down at times.

I also know how you feel about this often revolves around how your wayward spouse is helping you heal.

I sense you both are struggling on this point. Or at least you are feeling somewhat unhappy with his effort.

ark you hold the key here. You made choices that put both you and Jazzey in the place you are here and now. Like or not you got the proverbial marriage bus stuck in the mud. Now you have to get dirty and dig the bus out of this jam.

Or you could chose to get off the bus you stuck in the mud.

But the burden is on you. The choice is yours. She can only heal with your help with committment to make amends for the pain you caused her, for the trust that was broken, for the damage that must be repaired.

Put on your work boots ark and get this bus out of the muck on the high road.

BTW jazzey and ark.

I consider my marriage happy and well on the road to complete recovery.....occasional bad moments aside.

That recovery only happened because of bunchessorry's effort to help me heal to make me whole.

It didn't happen because I read every self help book on the market...though I did.

It didn't happen because I soaked up every tidbit of advice on this site....though I did.

It didn't happen because we went to Marriage Builders Weekend Seminar......though we did.

It happened because of her. It happened because she stood up for what she did and put her heart and soul into fixing the damage she caused.

That's how it happens. The other stuff helps but a broken heart only mends when it's patched back together by another heart.

Jazzey,...

I can only imagine what a double edged sword it is....

but it appears that the people that have really processed it through and really moved in to recovery are those that can see such changes in the WS and the marriage that the person that did the cheating no longer resembles that person in thought or action....

and one of the greatest unfortunes of this is the unfairness and the need for the BS to be able to accept that they can not change what did happen...

but hopefully they can change the circumstances and thought processes that were present that contributed to it happening...

You will hurt his and your recovery each and every time you throw it back in his face...
you will do damage

what was done was done.....
and continual throwing in the face will eventually become punishment and then the whole thing will unravel...

I believe people can change..
I believe people can move far away and grow in understanding, compassion, and really come to see the value of vows in a totally new light..
and that they do become a person that could never take that route again...

Some of this is your choice...
if you don't believe people can or will change..
then walk away...
if you believe they can and will change...then do all you can to create an environment in which you can support them in the smallest of changes...

easy for me to say.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

ark...
and jazzey the longer we keep a thought process or mantra going...the harder it becomes to change...and grasp new concepts...the more closed our hearts and minds become to seeing things differently...

Hi JG...as you know my H and I had a near perfect recovery. That being said I still have my low moments...I feel sad, angry, betrayed, frustrated, etc...I still feel that on occasion...differences are, that I do not LB when I feel that way. Most of the time I tell my H how I am feeling and he will talk to me or hold me or distract me. Occasionally, I will feel these feelings and still get a little overwhelmed..close to one of the old panic attacks, sometimes it causes me to withdraw a little...but I DO NO LB anymore....I do not allow myself to do this.

Now...my thoughts on the memories...I believe that there will always be moments of this (better then the every waking minute of the day it used to be)....when I am overwhelmed and feeling the need to "escape" I calm myself down by saying that I can't run away from this...these memories and the pain would be there even if I left my H.

One of the hardest things I've struggled with is trying to accept that no matter how smart I am, how smart he is, how good of a problem solver we are, no matter how determined we are, not matter how unfair it is....NEITHER MY H AND I CAN CHANGE THIS...WE CAN'T HAVE A DO OVER...it sucks but that is just the way it is.

So the question is...if dwelling on it and throwing it up in his face, aren't going to change anything...how do I take that energy and aim in a direction that can help us? You need to ask this question of yourself.

JG...you need IC, he needs IC, you both need MC...love I think you have...tools are what you need.

Please stop this ugly cycle and get help...no excuses about insurance, money, time...just DO IT!!!

WMP...stop going about recovery in a haphazard way...form a plan and stick to it as if your very life depends on it...as if you wifes life depends on it...as if your children's lives depend on it....that is the mind sight that got us through our recovery!

ark

Glad you see the need for a BS to see and sense a real and genuine change in the WS.

Jazzey are you still so angry you cannot see the changes...or ark have the changes been less than she had hoped for?

Why don't you do this guys....Jazzey make a list of changes you need to feel safe to recover.

ark make a list of changes you have made.

I bet both of you will find out you are alot closer than you realize.

Jazzey could it be there are other marital issues at work here and you are hanging onto the affair because its the one clearcut issue you are black and white right on?

here's my list of changes..

I have changed in to a MAN...eeeek
I have married Jazzeygirl
I have lost my girley figure...
(ok I lost some of that after the third baby)
I suddenly have an urge to go to a sports bar...


stunned dad...you are having a "not enough coffee yet" moment...

I am ARK..
I am not married to jazzeygirl...as in what has become of Mr. ARK...

and if I am married and a GUY does that mean I finally get my own remote!!!!!!!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ February 03, 2004, 08:33 AM: Message edited by: ark^^ ]</small>

Hi JG, to be fair wanted to point out that I think the same is so for the WS. My H is also haunted by triggers of the A...he too is riddled with pain...sometimes I actually think his is worse in some ways...we have to deal with what someone did to us...WS has to deal with fact that THEY caused this horrible pain. He has to deal with the feelings of disgust, frustration, anger, humiliation, guilt he feels for himself and OW. He wants to take it back so badly sometimes that I think he's going to lose it!!

So I think the damage of an A will haunt both BS and WS to some degree for rest of our lives...goal is for it to be a dim memory of pain...sometimes I am almost there!

The pain intensity for me and my FWH is less and less all the time with brief moments of intense flare ups...as long as we keep doing all the right things and are there for each other..it's bearable and it passes quickly.

Hi all I haven't posted much , my recovery going well . This topic really got my attention.

JG, I have dwelled on this very thought , and I still do . I don't think theres anything wrong with that . It has to be normal.

The affair changed everything ,yes for the BS and for the WS. Do I think it can ever be forgotten NO NO WAY Never . This is tragic, and that stays with a person forever .

Please no one get offened , but I think the strongest people around are BS's.

As a BS's I will live with some part of this bad nightmare inside of me and there is nothing I can do about it , I can't stop thinking , feeling , seeing things , it will always be there.

WE move foward in recovery , that I know is true . And we can have a new Marrage with more honesty , communication ect. BUT BUT , like forever said we nor our WS/FWS can never take back the damage that was done .

And IJMHO can't fix it ,There is no FIX what happened . and yes as BS 's we can do many things to move foward , but its already become apart of US .

So to answer what I think you said in the beging ,it will ALWAYS be there.

But it would have been there for me if I was with him or without him .

I do not find it unhealthy to think of the A , I find it unhealthy to always make ones self so busy that we may think thats how to get through a day by trying to run away from it .

I still have night mares alot it depends on the day and what happened . I don't think I am not recovering cause I think about alot still till this day . Its human I can not control that every thought .

I would have to say we will live with this hurt forever . As we would live with the pain of any tragic even that happens in our life.

Jazzeygirl,

"So my question is this. Will all of us BS's live with this the rest of our lives? Will it always be in the back of our minds tormenting us?"

Yes we will live with it the rest of our lives. It is now part of who we are. But it has stopped tormenting me once I understood that my old marriage was over.Everything it was built on for 25 years was now destroyed. It will never be like it was pre A. This is a new marriage now. Gone is the unconditional trust replaced by communication. Gone is her doing her thing and me doing mine apart, replaced by being together as much as we can.


"I know that I can forgive and I am almost at that point. But I do not think that I will ever forget. What kind of life does that leave for me. Better yet what kind of life does that leave for the M?"

When I realized that Plan A really worked if you follow it. Most people I see posting here don`t really do it. They LB because they can`t control their anger. The knowledge of EN`s and how to meet them is a powerful thing. I realized I could have whatever life I wanted. With whoever I wanted. I chose to stay with my W but I know I control my life now. It is a beautiful thing to watch your WS fall back in love with you.

I guess my point is. The tormenting stopped when I was back in control of my life. If that makes any sense.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> My H is wantmypookey!
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Okay no more staying up all night for me!