SG,

You said a few things when responding to our posts that I thought I might comment on.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">he's my H and he has to feel that way.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">REALLY??? And you don’t? Why not, you are his W don’t you have to feel love for and respect for your H? You didn’t so why should he? You see what you don’t understand yet and I hope some of my responses will help is that LOVE is a verb. It really is. He doesn’t have to love you, but he does. He could actually love you and hate everything you have ever done. He vowed to LOVE you, but he didn’t vow to like you or feel good about you. Do you see the point here. Your H does not have to “feel” anything or even like you. But, he does, and it should be really valuable to you to know that. Not dismiss it as “he has to feel that way”. You sure don’t feel that way toward him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I know that I have to stop thinking about me and my feelings and start focusing on H and his feelings. I am trying to do this, I really am.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ok, here is what in my mind anyway is a very subtle thing. Let me explain how I see it. Your feelings are just that feelings. His feelings are just that feelings. You are responsible for your feelings. What your H is responsible for is the conditions that lead to your feelings. And you are responsible for the conditions that lead to his feelings. You need to focus on yourself AND your H. He needs to do the same. The OM makes it just a little <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> to crowed to do that. Don’t you see that? You cannot do it for two other people AND yourself. So you shut your H out. If you focus on your H and yourself, there will soon be no room for OM. Feelings come ago SG, but love and commitment they are supposed to stay.

When my sisters and I used to really make my mother mad she used to tell us: “I will always love you, but I don’t have to like you.” Think about that.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want to love my H again- I don't just mean love him, I mean REALLY TRULY love him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then do it. It is a verb, it is not a feeling. Start to love your H. Touch him, listen to him, talk with him, smile at him, make love to him or better yet let him make love to you. You will soon start to see the feelings following the actions. You haven’t figured out that your feelings for OM, came AFTER YOU started to do things for him, such as giving him time, listening to him and his problems, talking about his marriage, etc. As you gave you started to develop feelings. If you start to do this with your H, your feelings for him will deepen.

But, will really help is if you two will decide to meet each others needs, and protect each other.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm trying to put my feelings aside and concentrate on my H. I think it's getting easier and the reason I think that is because I'm able to feel remorse and sadness for my actions whereas just after NC I could only focus on me and my hurt.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All of this is probably true, but don’t fight your feelings, focus on YOUR actions toward your H, your feelings will come. That is why it is called recovery. You are right though, it is a breakthrough when you start to feel sadness and remorse. At least your H is a human being in your eyes again. Next breakthrough will occur when you can see what has happened through his eyes.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OM has been married for 15 years (he was married prior for about 16 years to his first wife). He told me all along that things weren't well with his M and that they had alot of conflicts. The first year of our A, he still lived at home Here was a big clue and was trying to keep our A a secret. Well, obviously, his W noticed that things weren't quite right and she started putting things together and she found out that he was involved with me. January 2003 he moved out of his house and into a townhouse and his W filed for divorce. Notice it was not him filling? , They've been in mediation, etc since about April 2003 (OM is a high paid professional so there's alot of things to be sorted out as far as child support and spousal maintenance, etc). During the past year that OM has been living alone, I would spend alot of time with him and we would call each other alot (I was still living at home, but H always thought I was talking to friends). Again notice that you were providing for him so he would not be lonely During that past year, OM's divorce kept keeping put off and I never really trusted things that he would tell me. I was always worrying about where he was, what he was doing, etc. (Stupid, I know). Anyways, he always reassured me that he was going to get the divorce, etc. (and I was seriously considering at this time to do the same). Anyways, I found out through some snooping that OM and his wife have been doing some counseling (which he claims was for the mediation) and I also found out that they are working on reconciling their marriage.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">SG, notice that he really never took any actions. He never really commited to you. You were going to be his exit from the marriage, and a comfortable one at that. He wasn’t going to leave his W she pushed him out, he didn’t leave for you. It could be said the same of you as well. You two USED each other.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">One of my "worries" used to be that he'd be lonely and miss me, but not so much anymore. Now I guess I worry mostly that I was used and that I didn't really mean to him the things that he said I did.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Put your worries aside on this matter. YOU WERE USED. And no you did not mean enough for him to really sacrifice much of anything. Even a marriage he claimed was really bad. Of course this was his second marriage. Do you see a trend? Do you think #3 would have worked out better?? You already didn’t trust him with good reason. You were just starting to come out of the fog a bit at that point (mistrusting him), but you knew in your heart what you don’t want to admit. The “fog” was hiding it from you.

You are doing well SG, but make no mistake about this whole thing it was an illusion. Your love was real, but it was for a fantasy. Your feelings were real, but they were driven by misunderstanding of your H, and yes your OM.

Must go, but I would like to say thank you to Shattered Dreams and MrsX for there kind comments. I am glad that something I have said has helped all of you.

God Bless,

JL

JL- I love reading your posts. You give me strength and encouragment when I need them most. Reading them really help me to stop focusing on me and start seeing that this is about more than my feelings.
When I had mentioned that my H "had to feel that way about me because he's my H" I understand what you're saying. I know that he didn't have to feel that way, he chose to feel that way. But I was talking about it in terms of how I see it and how it doesn't seem to give me the boost to my self esteem coming from him as it did coming from OM. It's harder to believe a compliment from someone you're related to or married to then it is from a stranger who is saying it. I don't know why I feel this way but I've always gotten more flattered when it came from someone other than H, mom, dad, sibling, etc. What I want is to start believing it just as strongly when it does come from a relative or H and I know that only I can make myself believe this. I'm trying to work on it.
I liked how you pointed out that love is a verb and that I didn't start out feeling love for the OM, it was only after I started doing things for him that I started to feel love for him. I guess I never really looked at it this way. How could I have loved OM, I didn't know anything about him at first. But, as I started comforting him or talking to him or just simply investing my time into him that's when the feelings stopped. And, the more I invested in him, the less I invested in my H so I started to lose those "in love" feelings with my H because of that. I'm sure that this is plain as day to most people but when you're in a fog, even simple things seem like big revelations.
This is a good revelation to me because it helps me to stop putting the A in the "soul mate" category and start putting it in the "typical A" category.
I guess when you point it out, OM didn't really do anything for me. He only did it because his W pushed him that direction. I knew that she was the one who filed for divorce but I guess I always justified it by saying that he was waiting for me to file and also he didn't seem to be contacting his wife and asking her to reconcile (little did I know huh?) I guess I'm mostly mad at myself for being so stupid and trusting someone that I shouldn't have and investing 2 precious years of my life into him. Feeling used is not a very good feeling but I guess you're right in saying that I used him as well. He built my ego and I guess I was just a new person for him to bed down.
I consider myself a relatively intelligent person so why is it that we WS's are so easily fooled by these actions and feelings? I certainly don't feel this way about everyone but what was it about him that made me feel this way? Why him?
I was always skeptical about the fact that he was on his 2nd marriage and I never really intended to be his 3rd. I guess it was just a nice fantasy while it lasted but I knew in my heart that it wouldn't go anywhere. While I was with him (especially during the 2nd year) I knew that I would have to say goodbye to him and I knew that I wanted to be in a place in my life that didn't include him. It took me this long to finally do something about it. I guess that makes me a pretty weak person. I'm pretty ashamed of that.
Even though it hurts to see the pain I've caused H, it makes me feel good to know that I'm becoming capable of feeling apathy and remorse again. I can't wait until I can have the next breakthrough.....

SG...I hope you don't mind me offering you some advice on how to break the 'addiction' you are fighting with right now...i haven't read all of the responses to your post, but I read enough of yours to see that you are in the same place I was not so long ago...in terms of trying to break away from the OM and the feelings he gave you at least ( I don't really post here much because I chose not to tell my H of my A )...but I have broken the addiction and would like to help you do the same...

I was really glad to see that the last contact you had with the OM involved realizing that he has been lying to you...if he is in counseling with his wife, and trying to make it work with her....that shows you that he was probably in the A for the exact same reasons you were....for the feeling..the rush of attraction...all that comes with 'new' love (or more likely, infactuation)...see, if you think way back, I know you can remember the times that you felt the same 'rush' with your H...you may have to go way back, but you'll find it...ALL love starts that way..but only true love lasts beyond it..and that's what we have with our spouses...lasting and 'real'...not fleeting and foggish...that's the first thing you must accept...the A would have NEVER lasted past that 'new' stage...and don't be so surprised that he lied to you about his wife and their situation...he was likely trying to keep a hold of the 'rush' that you gave him too...he knew telling you that he was in counseling with his wife would put that in jeopardy...

And don't be too concerned about not having those intense passionate feelings for your H right now..I found that once I truly beat the addiction, those feelings did come back...not like the beginning of course...but the attraction and passion did slowly return...I couldn't even think of trying to get that back with my H until I had finally put enough No Contact time with the OM under my belt...I did try to remind myself that I loved H, he definatley loved me more than i deserved and I used to pull out letters H wrote me from Boot Camp...just reading them reminded me that, yeah, I felt just as intense about H back in the beginning...he could do it for me as well as the OM did, only better because our relationship wasn't based on lies and deception and cheating....

Anyway, the original reason I posted this was to give you some tips on keeping up the No Contact...and that is rule #1..there must be NONE, Change your email address..phone numbers, and anything else you can think of...you'll be surprised at how much easier it is to resist obsessively checking email or voicemail when you know that he can't contact you that way....

If you get that overwhelming urge to write or call him...go ahead and write to him..pour it all out...get all of that out of your head by writing it down..and then mail it to yourself...then WALK away force yourself to do something..anything...to get you past the urge...go for a walk..clean the house...run the vacuum..read a book...watch a funny movie...there are plenty of things to do...but just keep telling yourself that the urge will pass...just ride it out...

this may sound kind of weird, but I used to keep a rubber band around my wrist...when I would find myself beginning to obsess about where he was, what was he doing, how could he not contact me (even if i didn't want him to, it was the point that he didn't try that bothered me)anyway, when i would feel myself starting to think about him AT ALL, I just snapped the sh*t out of that rubber band...I think it's called aversion therapy...snap your wrist enough times when thoughts of the OM come to you and eventually you will associate those thoughts with pain instead of pleasure...something like that..all I know is that it helped....

It was hard SG, and I wouldn't wish the experience on anyone, but we do have to realize that it is a situation of our own creation...we CHOSE to be unfaithful...we CHOSE to allow feelings for the OM to develop...now it's up to us to CHOOSE to let it go....You can do it...

SG,

I am glad you are making progress. Please consider carefully DreamCatcher's suggestions. It seems she has it down pretty well.

You made a few more comments I thought I would respond to. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
When I had mentioned that my H "had to feel that way about me because he's my H" I understand what you're saying. I know that he didn't have to feel that way, he chose to feel that way. But I was talking about it in terms of how I see it and how it doesn't seem to give me the boost to my self esteem coming from him as it did coming from OM. It's harder to believe a compliment from someone you're related to or married to then it is from a stranger who is saying it. I don't know why I feel this way but I've always gotten more flattered when it came from someone other than H, mom, dad, sibling, etc. What I want is to start believing it just as strongly when it does come from a relative or H and I know that only I can make myself believe this. I'm trying to work on it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This IS a problem you need to address. But let me offer you some thoughts to consider. First, you do realize that you are showing your family and your H a huge amount of disrespect by doing what you have been doing: ignoring their comments to you unless they are negative. It means you are focusing on only the bad things. It means you feel they are compelled to compliment you.

I have a news flash for you SG. Read the women's posts here and you will see that most of them complain that their H's don't notice them, don't compliment them, and don't show they care to them. So you have an H that does and IT DOESN'T COUNT?

Please think about how that sounds. Then consider that a lying, cheating man's opinion counts for more even when you know he is trying to get into your pants.

So perhaps the solution is that your H compliments you less, says he loves you less, what do you think? It is up to you to figure it out and tell your H how you need to hear these things so that they make an impact.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I liked how you pointed out that love is a verb and that I didn't start out feeling love for the OM, it was only after I started doing things for him that I started to feel love for him. I guess I never really looked at it this way. How could I have loved OM, I didn't know anything about him at first. But, as I started comforting him or talking to him or just simply investing my time into him that's when the feelings stopped. And, the more I invested in him, the less I invested in my H so I started to lose those "in love" feelings with my H because of that. I'm sure that this is plain as day to most people but when you're in a fog, even simple things seem like big revelations.
This is a good revelation to me because it helps me to stop putting the A in the "soul mate" category and start putting it in the "typical A" category.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Congratulations, you have figured it out. Your H was starving for love and attention and you were giving it all to your OM. Hence he responded well, and your H???? But, here is where you need to really stop and think. Your H hung in there, although you had hurt him deeply and neglected him for two years. You shut him out and he is still there. So you don't think he doesn't know what is good and bad? You don't think he understands love?

If I were you I would listen to this man's compliments. He has seen a very black period in his life, and he knows what is good and bad, believe me on this.

It just comes down to respect. Do you respect his ability to hang in there? Do you respect his commitment to the vows of marriage? Do you respect that he took all of this pain, but still loved you? Then why wouldn't you respect his opinion?

It is because you don't listen to him, you probably never really have. Someday, ask him what he has been feeling. What he felt when he learned of your affair? What he feels now and then? Listen to him carefully, focus on his face. Not just his eyes, but his mouth, his forehead. You will see the depth of what he is saying to you. Hold his hand and feel the pressure change as he struggles to articulate his feelings.

If you listen to him with your ears, your eyes, your hands, you will learn to respect what he says to you. You see this isn't a new problem it is an old one dating back to your family. You did NOT learn to listen. Watch your family and see how well they do, and you might get a clue where this is coming from. But, if you truely listen to your H with all of your senses, you will learn to trust, and respect him. That is my feeling.


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I guess when you point it out, OM didn't really do anything for me. He only did it because his W pushed him that direction. I knew that she was the one who filed for divorce but I guess I always justified it by saying that he was waiting for me to file and also he didn't seem to be contacting his wife and asking her to reconcile (little did I know huh?) I guess I'm mostly mad at myself for being so stupid and trusting someone that I shouldn't have and investing 2 precious years of my life into him.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The honest answer is: Yes you should feel like you wasted these years, but you must also be honest and admit to yourself you used him, and you wanted to waste them. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It is a very sad but true fact.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Feeling used is not a very good feeling but I guess you're right in saying that I used him as well. He built my ego and I guess I was just a new person for him to bed down.
I consider myself a relatively intelligent person so why is it that we WS's are so easily fooled by these actions and feelings? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sadly, you wanted what he was selling. You weren't fooled you wanted the fantasy and you got it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I certainly don't feel this way about everyone but what was it about him that made me feel this way? Why him?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't know. Wrong guy at the right time? Reminds you of someone in your family you have issues with? Who knows? Only you and a good counselor might be able to figure this out. But, what is clear is that if you had set ANY boundaries in your life, this would not have happened. Here is where you really need to work. You need to set boundaries so that you protect yourself, your marriage, and your H.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I was always skeptical about the fact that he was on his 2nd marriage and I never really intended to be his 3rd. I guess it was just a nice fantasy while it lasted but I knew in my heart that it wouldn't go anywhere. While I was with him (especially during the 2nd year) I knew that I would have to say goodbye to him and I knew that I wanted to be in a place in my life that didn't include him. It took me this long to finally do something about it. I guess that makes me a pretty weak person. I'm pretty ashamed of that.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I wouldn't call you weak. You got what you wanted, you just weren't willing to admit what the price would be and is. This ALL occured because you wanted it to. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> It is time you faced that. You wanted what your H offered but you would not accept from him. So you went and got it from another man.

The tragic thing is that your H was offering something even better but you were blind to it. It is my hope that the blinders are now off. But, the sad thing is that your H is right. Your Marriage has lost it's innocence and trust. Trust can be rebuilt. Your marriage can in ways be much stronger and better (if you will listen to him and let him give you what he offers), but the holes in his heart will be hard to repair and heal. They are subtle and healing is slow. You need to be focusing on talking to your H and learning where the holes are and start to address them.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Even though it hurts to see the pain I've caused H, it makes me feel good to know that I'm becoming capable of feeling apathy and remorse again. I can't wait until I can have the next breakthrough.....
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think you mean empathy, not apathy. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> But I am glad you are starting to feel something for him. The next breakthrough will be painful for you. It will entail a lot of guilt as you start to see the holes in your H's heart. You see it is not just about pain, it is about more. He tried to tell you this when he said that some things were lost forever. You aren't listening to him yet. But when you do, you will know what he means. It will be sad.

I think your marriage will make it, and I think it can and should become much stronger and in many ways better. But, it will take awhile as you learn new ways of dealing with your H. New ways of opening up to him, and definitely new ways of listening to him.

You are doing well SG. Just lots of work left to do. Keep up the good work.

God Bless,

JL

Dreamcatcher- Thank you so much for taking the time to share your story with me. Your words help and give me hope that I will some day be able to get past these feelings. I wrote in an earlier post that when I come on this website and talk to you guys, it helps give me strength and show me that I can do this.
Yeah, the last contact I had with him was about his lying. I guess it's good that it ended this way because then I can always remember this lie and see that he wasn't serious about me and it'll make it easier to just walk away from it all.
You said that your feelings of passion for your H came back eventually. If you don't mind my asking, how long did it take? It's so hard right now because when we do try to be intimate, it's so hard for me to feel anything and then of course I start worrying that my H is noticing this and then I start feeling bad because I know that he's thinking about the A. It's just a very vicious cycle right now and I am hoping with time it'll be good again. So, I was just wondering if it was this way for you at first and how long until you were able to want your H again and get thoughts of OM out of your head.
Also, I have closed my email account which was a huge thing for me. It was really hard to do but once I hit that button to close it, I felt liberated in some way and it felt good. I'm working on closing the voicemail account, It's getting easier and easier to get to that point each day. Initially I would check it every hour to see if there was a message and now I only check in 1 x a day. I know it's not perfect yet but I'm almost to the point where I can close it entirely. I just feel like I have to do this at my own pace, which probably sounds stupid but I know that this way when I do close it, I'll be closing it for good and I won't have any doubts or regrets.
I like your rubber band story. I could have used one of those today. For some reason today was a really hard day- probably because it was slow at work and I had alot of dead time which gave me alot of thinking time. I wanted to pick up that phone and call him so bad, but I didn't and I'm proud of myself. With each passing day it gets easier and easier. I know that there will be hard days to come (2 steps forward, 1 step back) but I find if I don't look ahead too far and just take it one day at a time, it makes it a little more doable. Thanks again for sharing with me.

JL,
Your posts are what got me through today. I had printed them out and each time I had the overwhelming urge to call OM I would read your posts and I would picture my H and the hurt I caused him and it would help me to overcome the urge.
As far as the compliments, I know that I'm showing my family a huge disrespect by not listening to what they say. I try really hard to listen to them and believe them but sometimes it's just really hard to believe it about myself. My parents were both very supportive and often complimented my siblings and I. My H has always been very complimentary towards me. I don't know where I developed this low self esteem but it came from somewhere and I hate it. The thing I don't understand is, If I have a hard time believing my family and H's compliments due to a low self esteem, why is it then that hearing the same thing from OM builds up my self esteem? It's not like I walk around with a big head when I'm around him, it's more like I need constant praise from him. It's like I would feed off of what he thought of me. Does that make any sense?
I was thinking about what you wrote about if OM is somehow connected to someone from my past who I had issues with and that's why I might have chosen him. I thought that myself before but I can't come up with anyone that was older than me that I had issues with. I had a great relationship with my father but I guess there were issues with his financial state when we were growing up. When I was about 14 we ended up losing our house due to foreclosure and had to live with my grandma for a couple years because my dad didn't have a job and kind of goes between jobs alot. But I don't know if that would somehow correlate to my relationship with OM?
Anyways, you wrote something that really hit home and that was that when I was with OM, I wanted what my H was offering but I wouldn't accept it from him so I went to OM instead. This goes back to my original question (with the whole compliment issue) about why is it that I can't accept or "feel" the compliment from my H but I apparently had no trouble getting them from OM, in fact I fed off of them? Wierd.
Thanks for your vote of confidence regarding my M. I hope you're right in that our M will make it. I guess the hardest thing for me is knowing that our M is now a statistic. My H is right that it has lost its innocence and that's something like virginity, you'll never get it back. When you look at it that way it kind of makes you realize what a precious thing it was that was lost.
Take care JL. You're a godsend,
SG

SG.
I feel almost certain that the OM will be calling you soon. It has only been several days.

Are you prepared how to handle this when he does?

He is probably giving YOU some no contact time and then he will be in touch with you.

I hope you have your 'emotional guns' loaded and will be able to tell him "goodbye" and that you are going to be a faithful wife from now on!
Love, Julie

Blessed Time, I too have been expecting OM to call, especially once he realizes that the email address has been closed,etc. I guess there's still a part of me that hopes he will call but I'm trying to ignore that part and focus on the fact that I need and want to move on with my life with my H. When I last had contact with OM, I called him a liar and told him that I couldn't believe I had put that much trust and time into someone who lied to me the way he did. I didn't tell him what I heard so I'm sure that it's bothering him to know what's going on. I guess that makes me feel like I have the upper hand and I'M the one saying goodbye and good riddance while he just stands there wondering why he can't have his cake and eat it too anymore.
If he does try to call (I have caller ID at work) then my plan is to not answer the phone. I will force myself to get up and walk away from the room. Even though the "foggy" part of me would love to hear his voice, the unfoggy part knows that there's nothing more to say or do and so talking to him would be meaningless. If he continues to call my work # then I guess the only other thing I can do is send him an email from my H and I saying that we're tired of his games and we don't want to be a part of it anymore.
As long as I have this anger towards him it makes it alot easier to ignore him. I'm hoping and praying that the anger doesn't go away because then I fear that I'll start feeling bad for him and it'll make me weaker.
Thanks for your concern Blessed Time and I hope all is still going well in your recovery.

stupidgirl

If you are stupidgirl then I must be your twin!!
I read your post and can so relate to what you're going through. I'm 42 and was involved in a year long A with a man who is 52. I married at 18 and I do believe there is something to the self esteem issue here. My self esteem is not great, and like you, people find that hard to believe. At 42 people tell me that I look better and better as time goes by. The outward appearance sure isn't in agreement with the inside. If you will go back and read my original post you will see that I as well as mrsx can certainly relate to you. My A has been over for 7 months but I still work with him, which sucks beyond measure! He totally played me and I know that now. I feel so cheap and used by this A. Like you, I have a wonderful and understanding husband who has been so supportive. He doesn't know the depth of feeling that I had/have for the OM. Maybe, like you, I just miss the way he made me feel. I just want to feel like my old self again. I think we can certainly relate on the physical and emotional toll that this has taken on us. I am so sensitive now, much more than before, I cry at the drop of a hat. I have anxiety attacks that come on me for apparently no reason. I have had little luck in IC so I've kinda given up on that. Sorry to go on and on with my "drama", I just wanted you to know that I'm pulling for you here in Georgia. Please keep me posted on your progress.

WhyMe

I have read the posts here and find them very enlighting. The question posed about what was going through SG and mrsx's head at the start is interesting. I was thinking back about my own situation. I remember when OM first started with the flirtations, he made me very uncomfortable. Every instinct I had told me to avoid him. I don't even know when I chose to ignore those instincts. It's like all of a sudden some irristable force just sucked me in. I do know one thing, I never "planned" to have an affair with this man but I let my guard down. I truly think that he preyed upon me. I think he knew exactly what things to say and do to get my attention.

Lisa,
Hi I think you're right about the fact that he acted like a predator. Mr.Y knew all the right things to say to me. He led me to believe he was miserable in his marriage and had nothing in common with his W. And as he got to know me he also got to know the things about H that bothered me, and said and did the exact opposite. Everything H didn't like about me, Mr.Y loved. Everything I didn't agree with H on, Mr.Y agreed with me on. Mr.Y got to know the things I love and showed me that he loved them too. Mr.Y got deep inside my mind and I allowed him to manipulate me without even knowing it. I am sure he "fell in love" with me. I don't deny the chemistry we had. To toot my own horn I am very attractive, intelligent, a lot of fun to be with and sexy as hell. I am told that most people fall in love with me once they get to know me....BIG DEAL!Unfortunately the important traits like honorablility, trustworthyness and faithfulness are traits I severely lack, and hopefully are things that I can attain again as part of my character. Those were the things H loved about me the most. Somewhere along the line I lost every one of them...
Anywayz, Mr.Y totally used me to get the things he wasn't getting from his wife, it was a lot easier and a hell of a lot more fun for him to do this than to work on the issues in his M that led him to A. And of course the same goes for me. I am NOT innocent or a victim here. But I believed his stories and hoped that he would live up to his promises which he never did. God I could kick myself for being such an idiot and a fool. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Lisa103:
<strong> WhyMe

I have read the posts here and find them very enlighting. The question posed about what was going through SG and mrsx's head at the start is interesting. I was thinking back about my own situation. I remember when OM first started with the flirtations, he made me very uncomfortable. Every instinct I had told me to avoid him. I don't even know when I chose to ignore those instincts. It's like all of a sudden some irristable force just sucked me in. I do know one thing, I never "planned" to have an affair with this man but I let my guard down. I truly think that he preyed upon me. I think he knew exactly what things to say and do to get my attention. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

To Lisa103: I have found your posts very informative. It is exactly what my WW says. She does not say what he told her. My problem is that he is someone from her past, who is also significantly older that either of us, and I feel that she had harbored those feelings for him all the years we have been married. She says she had not seen him in years, but I find it strange that it happened almost inmediately after she met him again. You think that there are self-esteem issues in you that contributed and I think that is also the case for her. She is in IC, but does not say anything about her sessions. I believe she is also working on anger management which has been a problem area for her. I believe it has a lot to do with hidden resentments from her past. Unfortunately, she was mistreated by an abusive mother and her father was not a good example of marital commitment.
I really hope she finds peace as she is struggling with sensitivity and sadness. If there was no other past incident, I would have considered forgiveness, but there is a pattern of several infidelities during our dating period, which to her do not count. She totally disregarded my pain than and still does now. I find it very difficult to trust her because she has broken most of the rules that we lived by and I thought we agreed on. In addition, there is so much secrecy and distrust on her part. Someone suggested to me that people who have thoughts of infidelity tend to think that others think like they do and can be controlling and jealous. I forgot what is the term used to refer to that.
I have loved my WW so much before she did the things she did. I chose to trust her and forget any previous incidents during our dating period and accepted her reasoning, as flawed as it may be. But how much can a person forgive? If there is a behavioral pattern she needs to recognize it and find the basis for it before she can get help. The OM really played with her and used her and she does not know it. I talked to him twice by phone and he said somethings that planted many doubts in my mind. Some of what he said, I did not share with her because it will hurt her and she has already suffered enough. He lied to her and very likely he also lied to me, but the fact that he was in her past and how quckly she gave in to him, makes me doubt.
I am literally torn emotionally but have to present a steady front to avoid making her feel bad. The problem is that she knows me very well and can see through me easily. Since my job requires a lot of mental energy, which I don't have, I am doing poorly and I am struggling to keep the job I worked so hard and so long to get.

I know God has forgiven her, but I am human and perhaps not a very good one because she chose another who has several failed marriages, does not have a home, is sick with who knows what, much older than us, of questinable moral character, barely 5' tall,.... I guess you can see the person. I do not mean to demean stature or age, but my question is why would you trade a car that is running fine for one that is falling apart?

Hello Ladies,

I read Lisa's thread earlier this evening and wanted to know more of her story... and ended up here.

I don't write too often anymore, although four years ago I could easily have written what many of you have - in fact, I think I did.

I want to be a mushball for a moment and tell you that you have the best, BEST advice-giver in the world right here in your thread. JL has been my cyber-friend for years, and he never wavers in his ability to speak the truth with genuine compassion. You have a gem here among you.

I was once the WS, and I worked with the OM. I remember all those icky, yucky, horrible, yet somehow exciting feelings as I tried to end the affair for good. Will he call me? I hope he doesn't (does), I hope he leaves me alone (no, I don't) I hope he respects my request to stay away (no, come closer please). IT'S DISGUISTING to think of it all now.

I'm only here to tell you that when you get through this - AND YOU WILL - you will look back and I PROMISE you, you will wonder how deeply your head was buried to believe that this was true love. It never fails. I PROMISE.

Best wishes to you as you continue to HEAL YOURSELVES and heal your marriages.

smartgirl (ok, step one: Stop beating on yourself)

Have you ever seen the movie "Liar Liar" with Jim Carey? If not, do it, a little humor is always good <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> If you have, remember this scene? Jim Carey's secretary answers the phone and tells Jim (who's avoiding phonecalls) one of his clients is on the phone, a career criminal who's been arrested for holding up a liquor store. The client wants to know what he should do. Carey screams into the phone "STOP BREAKIN THE LAW A@@HOLE!!".

You get the picture. Sometimes (not always) it's allot easier to simply take the step than to try and figure it out.

M.

Mortimer- Nice analogy <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> it made me laugh, and yes, I do remember that part in the movie. I guess I should record that and somehow see if I can find an alarm clock that wakes me up to that every morning. Maybe then I'll get it, huh?
Lisa103- I have read your posts on here before I started posting myself and I could really relate to what you and Mrsx were writing. I remember you guys when you were first doing NC and you were saying how you missed OM so much and wished in a small sick way that even though you told him NC that he would somehow try to contact you. I have felt (and still do) these feelings as well and they are so hard. I read your post to Why Me and I agree with you that initially every core of my being knew that OM was a player and it was telling me to run. But, stupidly, (and for reasons I don't know) I decided to pursue it and low and behold here I am today..... I don't think I'll ever really know what it was the made me stick around and not run. In hindsight, it was the stupidest thing I've ever done.
I think that the reason it's so hard for you right now is because you're in contact with OM (as everyone has been saying). But, the reason that it's hard is because since you still see him you're still a part of the drama. Even though you may not be actively participating anymore, you still have to see him and when you see him laughing or smiling it makes your heart ache to wonder why he's in such a good mood: did he just have a wonderful night of sex with his wife; has he moved onto someone new already; etc? Understand what I mean? You can't move on because everytime you see him you're inadvertantly drawing yourself back into the drama of his life. The hardest thing for me is wondering what OM's up to, how he's doing, if he still thinks about me, etc. But, with each passing day thatI don't have contact with him it makes it that much easier for me to stop wondering. If I had to see OM everyday, I know that there would be no way I could avoid these feelings because I'd have to see him and encounter him and have these feelings pushed in my face everyday with his mere presence. I don't know if this is making any sense (I'm having a hard time verbalizing what I'm trying to say) but I'm just basically saying everytime you see him you rip the scab off the wound that's trying to heal.
I have to tell you what I did today at work. I was racking my brain trying to think of what I could do to get the thoughts of OM out of my mind and I came up with an idea that for Valentine's day I'm going to write a list entitled "I remember" of all the things that my H and I have gone through. We've been together for 12 years so I've included things from when we first started dating to things within the past year. As I was writing these things, it would make me laugh at some of the stupid things we have done together or experienced together. I mean, I wrote down things like: I remember when we first started dating and we went to your parents house and you were going to bake me some brownies and you turned the oven on and about 10 minutes later we saw flames through the oven door and we realized that your mom's tupperware (which she for some reason stored in the oven) was burning.
I have a 4 page list of things and it really helped me to feel close to my H and it definately helped get OM off my mind. Maybe you could make a list like this for your H for valentine's day??
Anyways, I hope that God can grant you peace in your heart. I know that I struggle with it everyday and I have good days and then I have bad days. But, I know that with the help of all these awesome people on here and the help of God, I will get through this and my M WILL survive. I have the same confidence for you Lisa. You just have to be strong and have faith.

SG.. you way underestimate yourself. you need to change your name to smart girl. Thank you for your post. You are so right about everything you said regarding having to see the OM everyday. He seems happy and doesn't seem affected by my presence at all. He once told me that he hoped that we could still be friends! That is the craziest thing I've ever heard of. He told me that's the difference between men and women, that women are just overly emotional. The man has no heart at all!!! I have been married for 23 years and I can't begin tell you how supportive my H has been through the years. I think I'm just have a mid life crisis. I married at 18 and probably didn't get a lot out of my system. We had a first child when I was 19 (our son) and our daugther 4 years later. Needless to say, our entire married life has been centered around our children. My daughter is a senior in high school this year which is so hard for me to believe. I think I'm experiencing empty nest early. She and I are best friends and the fact that she and my son are basically grown has blown me away!! My H and I need to get to know one another again without it just being about the kids. I wish you luck and it definetely sounds like you are on the right track...smart girl

Lisa,
Thank you for your kind words. Maybe someday I'll be able to change my name to Smartgirl, but right now I think Stupidgirl still applies (at least until I'm out of this fog completely).
Your story sounds very similar to mine in the fact that we were both young when we got married and "settled down". I wrote in one of the posts earlier that an IC once told me that I never really got to be swooned upon and sow my oats (so to speak) so I never got that out of my system and that's likely why I fell so hard when I saw OM swooning over me. It makes sense I guess but I just hope that doesn't mean that I'll always be at risk to anyone who swoons over me. I don't think so, but it still scares me.
I'm glad that you have a supportive H who wants to make this work with you. It's kind of a catch 22 though sometimes (which is so unfair to the BS). When we know that BS is supporting us, it makes it that much easier for us to be greedy and selfish and focus on our pain instead of theirs while we're still in the fog. I am noticing that I'm just now starting to realize what kind of pain I have put my H through, it seems to get easier to realize this as we come farther and farther out of the fog.
My biggest thing with OM now, Lisa, is trying to ignore my heart and put thoughts out of my head. It's so hard to do, but I don't want to give him anymore of my time than I already have. I think it was JL that said that to hate is to give him too much power, what you should strive for is indifference. That really stuck with me, and that's what my goal is.
I really think that if there is absolutely any way for you to get away from OM, you should do it. Even though I know it's hard because it'd be like letting go of your last "connection" of him, but you have to do it for your own sanity. It's hard to make that final step to let go because you want to still be a presence in OM's life and make sure that he never forgets you, etc. and you worry that if you're not there for him to see daily, then he'll forget you and then that'll prove that what you two had was a lie after all (and it's hard to admit that to yourself). I'm struggling with the same thing Lisa. I haven't disconnected my cell phone voice mail yet. But, I am getting closer and closer to taking that last step each day.
I think that if we just help eachother out, we'll be able to do this. We are strong women. We were strong before OM came into our lives and we'll be strong now that they are gone. We learned how to function and live before them, we can do it now as well. If we are the ones to say goodbye to the OM and show him that we're moving on, then they can be the ones left behind wondering how we could forget them and if we're still thinking about them or if they ever meant anything to us, etc. Step up and be the one to put your foot down and say "ENOUGH". This will make you feel like you're in control, not the other way around. I know it helps me to know that I was the one to end the A, I was the one to call him upon all his lies and tell him that I didn't want to be a part of this sick game anymore. That gives me power and I think that'll help me to heal.
Anyways, I hope you're doing ok. Each day will get better for us and soon we won't remember what it was that attracted us to OM in the first place.
Take care.

To SG and Lisa: I have really learned a lot from reading your posts and your experience. The story of MRSX has also given me some insights int what may WW may have gone through but has not verbalized. She had a very difficult childhood and did not have good examples on how to treat a spouse. Unfortunately, part of that upbringing also made her very defensive to the point that until recently she has had difficulty accepting responsibility for her actions and did not make an effort to try to understand what I felt when she deceived me several times while we were dating. In fact, to her that was not important. I suffered a great deal, but I forgave her and moved on to the point that we married. I had hoped that she would leave her past behind, but when she had that A with that person from her past, she brought not only her past, but also the pain that I had buried. It is like she opened the wounds of my heart and rubbed vinegar in them and now they do not heal. I have on many ocassions stopped by the side of the road on my way home from work to cry. I have difficulty concentrating and since D-Day I have had a constant headache that I have had to learn to live with.
I feel for her and although my pain is great, I feel real bad when I see her suffer or cry. I do not know what our future holds. I want to support her and encourage her to make herself better. I hope she finds peace and resumes a normal life, but I feel God gave a cross to heavy to carry, because I am having to live with something that I never expected and something I thought would never have to worry when I chose her as my partner for life. Although, she deceived me when we were dating, those were not PAs and I believe her.
I really do not understand why there are people in this world like those OM who have no reservations and no remorse when they disrupt lives and break homes when they prey upon others. The experience of the BS is that of devastation where it seems like the whole world falls upon you. It is demoralizing when the person you trust the most is capable of deceiving and disrespecting you in that manner. The feelings of inadequacy makes one wonder whether it is worth to continue living, but one has to find the strength to continue because there are innocent ones who do not deserve to suffer for the actions of two people. My children have been my force to try to rise from the ashes and gradually build my self-steem to where I can function again. It is a long road ahead.
The one suggestion I can offer is to be honest with your H's. Do not let them feel you still have secrets and above all, do not try to place any blame on them. What happened was your decision and there is really no good excuse to hurt someone as they have been hurt. Before I know anything and after discovery, my WW started to blame me and accusing me of things, many of which did not make sense. I think she tried hard to justify her actions to the point that she even lied about me to members of her family and a friend so that she may feel justified. Although she had the courage to lie, I do not think she has the courage to correct that and acknowledge the lies because to her admitting wrong-doing has not been in her nature.

Why me- I'm sorry that you are going through this. Reading your posts helps me to see what my H is going through as a BS. I know that for me, it's so easy to get wrapped up in my own feelings and just assume that BS will be fine and is able to deal with his own feelings. I try really hard to put my feelings aside and concentrate on how BS is hurting. I know that my actions were my choice and I have never tried to blame BS for them. In fact, I have said all along that I don't know why I ever got involved in this A because H has been a perfect spouse. This whole A has been about me, it's been about some defect in my character, not my H or my M.
I hope that God can give you peace and help you make a decision as to whether you can continue in your M or not. I pray that the answer is yes, but only you can know that for sure. I think that a part of your healing will come when your WS shows you that she is sorry by making right all the things she made wrong (such as lieing to family and friends about you, blaming you, etc).
Just stay strong and have faith and know that we are all here for you and that we are all a "family" who can help eachother out.

why me...I'm so sorry for what you are going through with your W. You sound like an amazingly supportive H who's only concern is caring for and loving your W through this. Please do not demoralize yourself for what she has done. She will eventually have to come to terms with what she had done wrong...to herself and to you! I have discovered that the OM that I was involved with had nothing over on my H...in every respect. He came across as very charming and that is what drew me in. It's amazing the lines that women and I suppose men to will fall for when they're not feeling so great about themselves. I don't know what the OM had to offer your W that she was lacking. I have searched my own heart and have found that what I'm lacking no one can give me. I have to rely upon God to feel that void in my life. I could have 100 other A's and will still feel as though something was missing. That void wasn't meant to be filled by another human being but by God. He put it there and he can satisfy our deepest longings. Please don't beat yourself up about this. We could all honestly say that we could be better wives and better husbands...none of us is perfect!!! You hang in there!!

SG...thanks for your response. I am so humiliated to even tell you how I have acted towards the OM in my situation. We decided approximately 7 months ago that this wasn't worth hurting our families over and that it had to end. He has kept his word. I have been the psycho one that seems to want to keep making him "pay"! Every morning when I get up, I say that today is going to be different. I'm going to leave him completely alone. There has hardly been a week that has gone by in the last 7 months that I haven't had something spiteful and hateful to say to him. I have never been a vindictive person or have I ever let something so consume me has this has. JL so hit it on the nail when he said that what we need to strive for is indifference. It seems that every now and then, for just a brief while, I will achieve that, then out of nowhere I go back to "psyco" status. I don't even recoginize my own self sometimes. I have absolutely made a fool of myself time and time again!!! He has lived up to the NC completely and I guess that it makes me mad that he doesn't seem affected by me now and seems to have no problem seeing me everyday. I honestly cannot tell you what I expect from him at this point. I once thought that if he had ever acted like the feelings in the A were mutual and not just me having the deep feelings that it would have made ending the A easier. I actually told this man that I loved him!! I wish that I could understand my own self in this. I truly do feel "psycho" at times. It seems that most of the stories that I read on MB are A's that took place where the feelings were mutual. I don't know, I know that I'm rambling but I think that's a big issue that I'm left with in the fact that I feel like I was used. It's over and it's time to move on so why am I so obsessed about that!!!! There are truly deep issues when myself that I need to address in this, that much I know.