My H (BS) has written an email to the OM's W, and has let me read it before he sends it. I have no problem with him writing to her, she has been in contact with me, is trying to forgive me, and has said that she would like it if my H would email her, as well. (we all used to be friends) However, in his email - he tells her how many affairs I've had (her H was not the first, but was the last), including one that I especially wish that I could forget. I'm pretty sure that the OM told her already that he was not the first, but still... it feels wrong for my H to tell her these things. He says that he is just getting out his feelings and needs to tell everything to someone (he hasn't told his friends all of the details). If he is going to tell someone, I am glad that it's her... but I still wish that he wouldn't. Is this an LB? am I just embarrassed? is this something that he needs to do and should be able to do? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> I can't decide... I would appreciate any thoughts.

C's w (formerly so much hurt)

"bump" ^ hoping for a response before he sends the email...

Why would your past sins, your past affairs, need to be told to her?

It seems to me, all that needs addressed is your affair with her husband.

That is it!
Anything else is between your husband and yourself.

Just my humble opinion.
Sincerely, Julie

Thanks for the response, Julie. I really appreciate it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I talked to my H about it some more, and he altered his email so that I am comfortable with it.
C's wife

Originally posted by captain's wife:
in his email - he tells her how many affairs I've had

How many affairs have you had?

but still... it feels wrong for my H to tell her these things.

You mean it feels wrong, like a betrayal of your trust? Hmmmmmm? See where you find yourself here?

Is this an LB?

I think love buster can be misinterepted to mean any action that stings... I'm not sure this takes on the characteristics of LB .... after all, your H is consulting with you about the content of the message to your X-friend and wife of OM. How fortunate you are!

am I just embarrassed?

Are you embarrased?

is this something that he needs to do and should be able to do?

Well, I realize this has already been POJA'd between you and your H .... so it's a moot point by now.

But how fortunate you are to have a such a brave man for a husband.

Be grateful and return his honesty and courage with your own.

Pep

Pep-

How many affairs have you had?

does the # matter? I don't think so - maybe the fact that I've had more than 1 or 2 could be important... but since you asked - I've had 10 including the one that I call the OM. Some EA's, some PA's.

You mean it feels wrong, like a betrayal of your trust? Hmmmmmm? See where you find yourself here?

I'm not sure whether I would have called it a betrayal of trust... I think it was just that our counselors have said that we need to look forward more than backward, and bringing all of that up seemed to be unnecessary to me. As for your comment - are you saying that I deserved to have my trust betrayed because I have betrayed his with my affairs?

I think love buster can be misinterepted to mean any action that stings... I'm not sure this takes on the characteristics of LB.

Yes... I looked over the LB's... and it doesn't actually fit any of them that I can see. I was feeling upset and hurt at the time, however, so I needed to have help in seeing the situation clearly.

Are you embarrased?

To a degree, yes, I am. Embarrassed... ashamed. I am still shocked when I look back and realize the extent of my actions and the pain and havoc that it has caused.

is this something that he needs to do and should be able to do?

Well, I realize this has already been POJA'd between you and your H .... so it's a moot point by now.

yes, it's a moot point to some degree - but it is also important for me to look at it clearly so that I can learn and recognize these things more easily next time.

But how fortunate you are to have a such a brave man for a husband. Be grateful and return his honesty and courage with your own.

yes, I am fortunate, and I am grateful. I am now totally honest with him, and I was able to tell him that if he felt that he needed to tell OM's wife those things, that I could understand and he should feel free to do so. He decided that since I was not in ENTHUSIASTIC agreement, however, that he would change the wording of the email a bit so that I was more comfortable with it. He got what he needed to off of his chest, and I was not hurt. I am VERY grateful for my H.

Thanks for the response,
C's W

<small>[ February 11, 2004, 05:34 AM: Message edited by: captain's wife ]</small>

I would say part of his motive is to let the OM's wife know it was as much or more your fault than her husband.

I agree with Blessed TIME, OM&#8217;s W don&#8217;t have to know about your past affairs... IMO it will be totally inappropriate for your H to tell her all those things, especially if you feels uncomfortable with it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> He says that he is just getting out his feelings and needs to tell everything to someone (he hasn't told his friends all of the details).</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If your H really needs to tell someone everything and getting his feelings out he must go to a MC or IC!!

I can see you have repentance, remorse and guilt about your past affairs and working on your M and therefore I&#8217;m glad your H is willing to alter the email so you can feel comfortable with it.

I think part of your H's motive to tell OM's W is to 'punish' you in an attempt to relieve his own pain, but this will be very unhealthy for your M and for both you and your H's recovery. Rather go and seek the help of a MC if necessary.

All the best.

<small>[ February 11, 2004, 07:44 AM: Message edited by: Suzet ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> does the # matter? I don't think so - maybe the fact that I've had more than 1 or 2 could be important... but since you asked - I've had 10 including the one that I call the OM. Some EA's, some PA's.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Sure the number matters not from a judgemental standpoint but from the standpoint of understanding the depth of marital problems.

Affairs impact a marriage in ways besides what is obvious. During your affair emotional energy for the marriage was taken away and given to the affair. So during all those affairs you were taking away from you relationship with your husband and placing it into another relationship. This impacted how your husband felt about his relationship with you...he didn't even have to know about the affairs. You see if you were paying him less attention, short and aggravated with him during an affair then he responded to that.

Many experts including Dr. Harley talk about the addictive nature of affairs just like drugs. So if we view affairs as addictions then it does matter how many times you have done drugs in order to determine the best way to approach the addiction.

IF the decision to tell the OM's W about your affairs was not arrived through the POJA(Policy Of Joint Agreement) then yes it IS a LB named Independent Behavior.

Pep: How many affairs have you had?

CW: does the # matter? I don't think so - maybe the fact that I've had more than 1 or 2 could be important... but since you asked - I've had 10 including the one that I call the OM. Some EA's, some PA's.

Pep: The number doesn't matter to me. It might matter to your husband. Do you think having 10 affairs makes you a high risk wife for your husband in the future? Does he know you've been with 10 other men during your marriage?

CW: - are you saying that I deserved to have my trust betrayed because I have betrayed his with my affairs?

Pep: No, of course not. I am bringing this up with you .. so that perhaps .. you can learn empathy. If you feel violated withing your marriage in ways that seems to involve trusting your H to have your best interests at heart .... perhaps you will begin to experience empathy for his position of having to forgive 10 affairs.



Pep: I think love buster can be misinterepted to mean any action that stings... I'm not sure this takes on the characteristics of LB.

CW: Yes... I looked over the LB's... and it doesn't actually fit any of them that I can see. I was feeling upset and hurt at the time, however, so I needed to have help in seeing the situation clearly.

Pep: Are you embarrased?

CW: To a degree, yes, I am. Embarrassed... ashamed. I am still shocked when I look back and realize the extent of my actions and the pain and havoc that it has caused.

Pep: What do you think will protect you in the future from facing the same or similar pain and havoc?

In some ways, I think your shame and embarrasment might protect you. But, only if it doesn't go too far and you cannot forgive yourself after the appropriate amount of time.

What I worry about with women such as yourself is your apparent (past) lack of strength, self-control and intolerence for self-scrutiny.

Develop more empathy and tolerance for self scrutiny and I think you'll make it through all of this all the wiser!

I am hoping that you use your embarrasment to build a stronger self image and courage to live in the light of day instead of in the shadows.

Pep: Well, I realize this has already been POJA'd between you and your H .... so it's a moot point by now.

CW: yes, it's a moot point to some degree - but it is also important for me to look at it clearly so that I can learn and recognize these things more easily next time.

Exxxxx~~actly ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

CW: yes, I am fortunate, and I am grateful. I am now totally honest with him, and I was able to tell him that if he felt that he needed to tell OM's wife those things, that I could understand and he should feel free to do so. He decided that since I was not in ENTHUSIASTIC agreement, however, that he would change the wording of the email a bit so that I was more comfortable with it.

Pep: Holy smoke CW .... hang on to this man! he's a jewel! And you know this about him .... he's got your back protected! Wow! He's impressive.

Keep plugging away .... don't give up. You've got a man who is a keeper, that's for sure!

Pep

SDRF-
Hmmm... I don't know if my H is trying to let her know that I'm more at fault... but he could be trying to explain to her why he seems to be struggling more with forgiveness and trust than she is. I think that it bothers him, even though I've told him repeatedly that I understand.(she has expressed a desire to get together with me and try to mend our friendship over time)
I suppose that I can see where the # of A's would make a difference when they are considered an indication of the depth of marital problems.
thanks
CW

Suzet-
interesting that you would say that he should talk to a C. We are both seeing IC's that work together at times to bring marriages back together. I mentioned to him when he said that he needed to tell EVERYTHING to SOMEONE that he should talk to his counselor. That is also the same thing that I was told when I said that I needed to talk to the OM because I had no one to talk to! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

TMC-
Independent behavior... yes, I suppose that that would be, if we didn't agree on the email... I hadn't thought of that. Thank you. I'm glad that he and I POJA'd it. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

CW

CW

The OM's wife defended my wife the first time I contacted her saying her husband picked out vunerable women and played a cat and mouse game with them.

Later on even after she knew the affair had been going on for over 2 years she still apologized to me for the pain her husband had caused my family. She said she felt bad because she was his wife and it was her job to keep him under control.

At the time I did not know that this OM had a dozen prior affairs. Indeed his wife only indicated there had been a couple of others and they were years ago.

Was she trying to apoligize to me? Did she guilty because she allowed him to do this time and time again? Was she doing it so I would take my wife back and she wouldn't feel threatened in terms of my wife taking away her husband? I don't know what her real motives were but I do believe she wanted me to know her husband's history regardless of her motivation.

Same could apply to your husband.

Pep: The number doesn't matter to me. It might matter to your husband. Do you think having 10 affairs makes you a high risk wife for your husband in the future? Does he know you've been with 10 other men during your marriage?

CW: I don't think that my As make me a high risk W... I KNOW that they do! He and I have talked about that... and, yes - he knows exactly how many men I have been with during our Marriage. That's what he wanted to share with the OM's wife that I didn't think was necessary for her to know.

Pep: No, of course not. I am bringing this up with you .. so that perhaps .. you can learn empathy. If you feel violated withing your marriage in ways that seems to involve trusting your H to have your best interests at heart .... perhaps you will begin to experience empathy for his position of having to forgive 10 affairs.

CW: *Nods* yes, it does make me stop and think...


Pep: What do you think will protect you in the future from facing the same or similar pain and havoc?

CW: well, my H and I are working through the LB and HNHN lessons after the MB seminar... and we are learning to care for each other and meet each other's needs. I am hoping and praying that if we both work together, we can fall back in love like we once were... I am seeing (and feeling) definite progress. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />


Pep: What I worry about with women such as yourself is your apparent (past) lack of strength, self-control and intolerence for self-scrutiny.

Develop more empathy and tolerance for self scrutiny and I think you'll make it through all of this all the wiser!

CW: I wish that I could argue with you... but I have discussed with my H about my lack of strength and self-control... and I've had to be honest that some days I still feel extremely weak. Thankfully, he's done his best to be there for me while I build up my strength.
I do have difficulty with self- scrutiny... but actually, it's more the scrutiny and criticism of others that I have trouble with. I am not afraid to look into the depths of myself (not usually), but I don't always know what to look for. Then when someone else tries to look for me and points things out (especially if it's in a harsh, critical manner), I tend to shut down. I am trying to change that. This forum is helping me with that. I have to struggle at times to not take offense and shut down or run away when people point things out to me. I know that it's old baggage that makes me so fearful of criticism (even constructive criticism). I'm working on that...

Pep: I am hoping that you use your embarrasment to build a stronger self image and courage to live in the light of day instead of in the shadows.

CW: it's difficult for me to think of embarrassment building strength and courage... but I think that I know what you mean...

Pep: CW: yes, it's a moot point to some degree - but it is also important for me to look at it clearly so that I can learn and recognize these things more easily next time.

Exxxxx~~actly ! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

CW: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />


Pep: Holy smoke CW .... hang on to this man! he's a jewel! And you know this about him .... he's got your back protected! Wow! He's impressive.

Keep plugging away .... don't give up. You've got a man who is a keeper, that's for sure!

CW: <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> yes, he IS a keeper!

Thanks, Pep!

CW

SDFR-
The OM's wife defended my wife the first time I contacted her saying her husband picked out vunerable women and played a cat and mouse game with them.

At the time I did not know that this OM had a dozen prior affairs. Indeed his wife only indicated there had been a couple of others and they were years ago.

I don't know what her real motives were but I do believe she wanted me to know her husband's history regardless of her motivation.

interesting... thanks for sharing that... that's something to really think about.

CW

Originally posted by captain's wife:
That's what he wanted to share with the OM's wife that I didn't think was necessary for her to know.

Well, I don't have any opinion about whether or not it's necessary for OM's W to know ..... That's POJA'd between you and your H.

But let me share a small part of our experience:

My H had one affair. EA and PA. It lasted 18 months, but frankly, I think he was smitten with her years before I met her. She was married to one of his friends. And my H was smitten all the way head-over-heels with this woman. She's very attractive and also very kind and very flirtaceous.

She did not let my H know until right before D-day that my H was her ninth affair.

He was blown away.

His opinion of what their relationship meant was suddenly different.

The soulmate infatuation was suddenly tossed out the window.

So in some ways, knowing about OW's other 8 affairs helped my H clear out of the fog pronto!

So CW, if OM is still yearning away for you, and thinks of you as his *gag* "soulmate" .... he might benifit from knowing where he stands in line. Especially if he thinks he's "numero uno" ....

Which reminds me of another woman we know. She's just gotten married to #9, who thinks he's #4 husband. Yikes! I don't think she's gone 3 months outside of a relationship. She's very beautiful and also very flirtaceous.

Are you prettier than average? I sometimes think very pretty beautiful woman have a disadvantage, because they attract men too easily on superficial levels.

Sooooo, are you a knock-out? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Pep

<small>[ February 11, 2004, 05:07 PM: Message edited by: Pepperband ]</small>

Pep-

Pep: [b}She did not let my H know until right before D-day that my H was her ninth affair.
He was blown away.
His opinion of what their relationship meant was suddenly different.
The soulmate infatuation was suddenly tossed out the window.
So in some ways, knowing about OW's other 8 affairs helped my H clear out of the fog pronto!
So, if OM is still yearning away for you, and thinks of you as his *gag* "soulmate" .... he might benifit from knowing where he stands in line. Especially if he thinks he's "numero uno" .... [/b]

CW: wow... that must have really been a jolt to your H! I wonder if OM would have reacted differently if I had told him at the end of our relationship rather than the beginning that he was #10.
I have always been honest with the men that I've been with about the fact that they were not the first (except for the first, of course, who was shocked to find out that he was the first!). Not that I'm looking for any gold stars for my honesty... cause I know that the only person that really mattered was my H... and he's the one that I always lied to. *sigh*
The OM definitely knows how many men I have been with, though... we talked about it, and he was ok with it. Not ecstatic... but ok. Therefore, yes... he is still hanging on - to some degree.

Pep: Are you prettier than average? I sometimes think very pretty beautiful woman have a disadvantage, because they attract men too easily on superficial levels.

Sooooo, are you a knock-out? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

CW: No, Pep, I'm definitely not a knock-out! LOL I think that it is true that gorgeous women have their own set of problems because of their looks, but I'm not one of them. I don't consider myself to be totally unattractive, but I won't be entering any beauty contests.
The attraction for my affairs wasn't really for appearances. As for their side, from what I understood - most of the men that I was with were in need of someone to make them feel wanted... to have someone be as excited about sex as they were... etc. A few of them were also an emotional connection... I am a good listener and I care very easily and very deeply for people. All but one of my A's began online.

Gotta go make dinner!
CW

The OM definitely knows how many men I have been with

Well then, no need to tell OM's wife anything other than "It's over forever, so sorry I intruded on your marriage."!

Thanks for sharing!

Pep