A friend of mine, not a close one, but a good one, has been seeing a man since December. He had been displaying some odd behaviour, such as claiming not to have a land line and only a cell phone, and cancelling some plans last minute on a couple of occasions, and also he was seen at the mall with somem other woman once too. So last week when the boyfriend cancelled some plans with my friend at the last minute yet again, she told him that she was convinced that he was married, and that she was done with him.

At that point, he finally confessed, did the whole "oh but we're getting a divorce" song and dance. For a few days my friend remained strong, but now she's waffling big time.

You see, when they first started dating, she asked him the magical 3 questions: 1) are you married? 2) are you seeing other people? 3) do you have kids? He lied and answered no to all of them! She thought she was dating a single man. Oh yeah, and he lied about his job too, told her he was a salesman with a particular company, but he's only a driver for them.

She said this today: "Yes, he lied he was married,
but he's separated and didn't think I would even give him a chance and you know what, he would be right to think that in the beginning. You don't know him at all so please don't judge him. At least he's not cheating on me like every other guy in the world. One lie snowballed into everything else because he didn't think things between us would last. Anyway, I can't justify it to anyone because no one really understands. I'm 35 years old and I wouldn't do something idiotic. Like I said, you have to be in it to know. Sorry if I sound pissed off but I'm really tired of everyone making judgment calls when they don't know the whole story and I've done a helluva job of making everyone hate him. Good on me."

YIKES! She won't listen. I guess she has to hit rock bottom for herself. BUT I've watched so many BS on MB watch their WS go back and forth from OW to BS....I feel like I KNOW what she's in for.

Do I just shut up for now and help with the fallout later? Do I try to get her to come to MB? I hate watching this, even if it is from a distance.

Jen

Jen,

Until we all - BS, WS, happily married folks, EVERYONE - unite and stand firm against adultery and make a loud noise that says

THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE BEHAVIOR!

we don't stand a chance in turning this epidemic of infidelity around in this country.

Jen, you know the heartache - you know the fallout...the disasters that result. You tried your hardest to hold it together.

Please, please, please - be an advocate and stand up strongly against this type of behavior.

Many of us are taking our experiences with affairs, regardless of which side we have been on, and turning it into a positive by helping to stamp out this trend.

Join us, Jen. Take a stand and speak your mind to this friend...even though she is distant and hard to reach right now. If you speak consistently, softly, but strongly, you can get through.

We have got to change this!

<small>[ February 10, 2004, 07:34 PM: Message edited by: *Sparkle* ]</small>

Jen,

If your friend thinks no one understands,tell her to come here.WE understand PERFECTLY!

Tell her to drop that man like a hot potato and not look back UNTIL he is actually divorced.Remind her that so far,the relationship has been built on lies,Red Flag #1.Just because he "confessed" afterward is still not a good sign.

Red Flag #2 is that he is still MARRIED! Separated is only an afterthought,makes no difference in my opinion.Geeze,when will people get a clue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

O

Octobergirl,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Octobergirl:
<strong>
Geeze,when will people get a clue. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

O </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Only when those of us who have experienced it can get the attention of those who might be either involved in the affair, tempted by it, coerced by a liar, etc., etc.

Yes, I invite Jen's friend to come here and post. It will help her; we will help her.

But beyond that, we have to be aware of what is going on and do what we can to stop it. I know that from my personal situation, I would have been exceedingly grateful had my WP's OP had a friend who stood up to them and said, NO! This is wrong. It is not "destiny," or a soulmate" situation, or "meant to be. It is WRONG."

and why does she think he is seperated...oh yeah, he told her the truth...sheesh.

At the very least she should contact his wife to verify they are seperated pending divorce, that he is not living at home, etc. If she won't, you do it. Tell her you did the PI work for free, no charge.

an oh, btw, ask her why she thinks being decieved into a relationship is a good sign...and why she thinks he won't decieve her everytime he thinks she won't give him what he wants. Jeez, is your friend that desperate she needs this loser?

sparkle,

I'm not sure I understand your response to me.When I say when will people get a clue,in this case,I meant that even after Jen tried to help her friend out of a bad situation she(friend) still continues to forge ahead making excuses for her behavior not to mention his.I agree wholeheartedly that we should all spread the word about infidelity and it's painful consequences.

Jen said she won't listen.So yes she should still speak out and also try to get through to her friend.So,did I miss something here? Ugh,I'm too tired to anlayze this one. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

O

Jen,

This is all hogwash, of course. I know, because I really AM separated from my H.

I don't cancel plans with friends last-minute, for mysterious reasons. You can call into my home, no problem. And you won't catch me at the mall with my H. Why? BECAUSE WE ARE SEPARATED.

Obviously, your friend misses the guy, and wants to revamp the data to fit her desires.

If he's moved out from his wife, then he should have a home phone, not cancel plans, etc. She could ask him to do those things before he calls her again. Or call the W herself.

I hear you all, loud and clear. This is just a little awkward b/c she's the kind of friend that I see half a dozen times a year, tops. I don't feel completely qualified to tell her what to do. But, honestly, when I find some time this week, I feel an obligation of sorts to call her, tell her all that I've learned on MB, and particularly to talk to the wife and to remember that the man started their relationship with lies, so why should it ever change. I think maybe she is feeling a bit desperate at 35, with ovaries drying up as I type this, and her chances at having kids diminishing daily.

I guess I just needed to hear from some of you that it would be right for me to really tell her in detail how I feel. She'll likely reject most of it, but at least in having said it, I'll have planted a seed or two, and she might have a hope of getting out of it all.

Jen

how many FOWs here on MB have learned the hard way. Why doesn't your fiend call the wife and check .. some FOWs here on MB have done just that.

Not only were they able to find out the turth (some believing the WS lie that "they" were the only A he's ever had -- only to find out they were latest in five) but they were also able to decide for themselves and stop being lead down the merry road into some else's problem ...

If he's telling the truth well then throw a party -- she's already be lied to (imagine that) so she does have a right to do some checking. If he has a problem with that, well what does that say?

Terminator and other MB FOWs where are you?? .. maybe you can help Jen compile a lists of yourr posts foir Jen's friend to read. and like others said, ask her come here and read.

If she does decide to call the wife and finds out he's not being truthful she might also recommend MB to her.

way2

She needs other guys and other options. Because she doesn't have them, she wants to rewrite the data to make him fit the pattern she wants to see. "Separated" people don't hide their lives.

Maybe it's time for friends to circle around her and invite her out more, introduce her to more guys, etc. She needs to go through a break-up, and she's obviously avoiding it.

He's not truly separated, we all know that. Your friend wants to be in the fog.

If I was the OM's W, I would want a head's up. If you can find out who she is, send her an anonymous note to check up on her WH.

I had that opportunity once and didn't take it. That was BEFORE I was ever cheated on. Now I wish I had. I was in sales and there was a salesman w/a competitor who was very good looking and would wine and dine the girl clients and sleep w/them as well. I'm sure his W loved the extra commissions but I don't think she would have appreciated how he was getting it.

Jen:

"Do I just shut up for now and help with the fallout later? Do I try to get her to come to MB? I hate watching this, even if it is from a distance."

Invite her 2 see the movie "Big Fish" with you. If you've seen it yourself, you'll know the scene I want your friend 2 see. ...it made my FWW cry. Me 2.

It's also one of the best "feel good" movies I think I've ever seen.

-ol' 2long

Good to hear from you 2long. It would be great if I could get her out to a movie like that which would get her thinking. The only thing is that she's the kind of friend I usually see only 1/2 a dozen times a year, so it's hard to ever make plans with her. I have trouble even beginning to talk to her now if the topic leads towards relationships. I see her as in the same position as my STBXH's little EA youknowwhats - someone who doesn't care that they're treading in on a MARRIAGE, even if the couple is separated, and in the process is helping to prevent that couple from reconciling b/c of her presence in the WS's life. Right now I just keep praying she'll ask me what I think.

Jen

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Jen Brown:
<strong> Good to hear from you 2long. It would be great if I could get her out to a movie like that which would get her thinking. The only thing is that she's the kind of friend I usually see only 1/2 a dozen times a year, so it's hard to ever make plans with her. I have trouble even beginning to talk to her now if the topic leads towards relationships. I see her as in the same position as my STBXH's little EA youknowwhats - someone who doesn't care that they're treading in on a MARRIAGE, even if the couple is separated, and in the process is helping to prevent that couple from reconciling b/c of her presence in the WS's life. Right now I just keep praying she'll ask me what I think.

Jen </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">write her a carefully thought out letter, she can read it or trash it, her choice, but you tried...and if at all possible, find the wife and let her know what is going on, flush out the liar...if he is a liar....do so annonymously if you must....it is your civic duty, if you ever want someone to do the same for you, should you find yourself in that unfortunate role.

Any chance you can confront her with, "Look, I know we're not that close, but some of the experiences you are having hit me close to the bone, and I've got to say something..."

My tendency in such circumstances is to try to work through friends who are closer to her. Almost always ineffective, often backfires.

Because you are NOT so close, you can say things without worrying about jeopardizing her friendship. Because you don't really have one. Closer friends might not be able to do this.

Jen,

I didn't respond to this initially because as an OW I wasn't lied to about the MM's marital status, or single myself (as your friend is). In other words, I was not an "unwitting" OW.

However, someone on the thread suggested I post, so here's what I'll say:

Tell your friend what you know. Have her read some stories here and on other boards (TOW especially) about how these things turn out. More often than not it is, at best, a degrading mess for a woman in your friend's place. I doubt you would be successful in appealing to her altruism (the pain likely to be caused others as a result of her actions), that's just the way people are, sad to say. But I believe you should say as much as you can to her, knowing what you know, including your exact words here: "I hate watching this."

Our society has become that way--silently watching others' bad or destructive behavior--because we are told not to 'judge'. Judging others is bad, wrong, unfair, narrow-minded, we are told. But I think there is a difference between 'judging' and calling someone to a standard of decency. Your friend, on that subject, needs to raise her standards considerably if she is looking for a relationship of any longevity or depth.

I like what Sparkle is saying.

Most of what everyone is saying is true...you need to speak the truth to her. She might not accept the truth in the beginning...but the seed will be planted.

How does that quote go?....All evil needs to take hold is for good men to do nothing.

And one more thing. Many in here seem to be expressing a difference between separation and marriage. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE! Just because you sleep under different roofs, doesnt mean you arent married. And sleeping under different roofs, and then seeing someone else equals adultery...EVERY TIME! We need to start calling these actions what they are. If you are married, if you havent received a divorce...then you are still married (I know...a little Aslyne in me coming out). And as a married person...you must act like one. That means no boyfriends/girlfriends. No sex except with your spouse. No living with someone other than your spouse.

My wife used this balogna in order to justify her affair. She said I was in Bosnia for 8 months. That she decided after I left that the marriage was over. So, since we were separated, it wasnt adultery.

Then I come back, and after 4 months of trying to recover the relationship (I learned about this right after I came back), she leaves to go to her own apartment...and keeps up the relationship with OM. And then uses the separation as justification (she still does somewhat). That she wasnt really married...she was separated. Barbara Streisand!

Rule number one...if you are married, and havent been divorced, then sex with someone outside your marriage is adultery...no matter your circumstances. No matter your location. Sparkle is right...let's stop white washing this stuff. Call a spade a spade.

In His arms.

<small>[ February 13, 2004, 01:41 PM: Message edited by: Mortarman ]</small>

Motorhead is right. My WW has the same stupid illogic. She is still my wife, has not filed for D, but OM visits her regularly and stays at her place. I am sure he is not sleeping on the couch.

Meanwhile, I play the role of loyal husband and live a celibate life.
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

OK, apologize upfront for the threadjack.

MORTARMAN! Where ya been?

Can you update your thread for us? We've all been waiting since January when you promised to come and write.

Thanks.

Now, Jen, the thread is yours again.